alder24

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

That said, Plate is an amplifier in that it takes it's cues for how fast to move, how hard to hit from the Shardbearer, so a Shardbearer will get tired eventually, depending on the damage possible before the Plate itself runs low for power-assist. Personal enhancement of this variety, be it a Blessing of Potency, A-Pewter, or Stormlight itself that enhances stamina will mitigate that. 

Yeah, an amplifier is the right term. 

7 hours ago, therunner said:

I'd say that no, it is not.

Shardplate is meant to be powered armor analogue, and those simply use their own strength.

Not really true, took me a while to find this quote - WoK ch 28:

Quote

Chips sprayed, bouncing of his Plate. He was beginning to feel worn and tired. The Plate didn’t do the work for him—it enhanced his strength, so each strike of the hammer was his own. His fingers were growing numb from the repeated vibration of the hammer’s haft. He was close to a decision. His mind was calm, clear.

46 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I dont think so. Sibling and Nightwatcher seem pretty cut and dry.

 

The Sibling is the tower, and all that the tower represents. Safety, dignity - the fight of the Radiants. The Sibling represents the 'marriage' of Honor and Cultivation in their fight against Odium. 

You said it yourself, those are very vague and broad ideas. Multiple ideas. Windspren is just about wind. Fearspren is about fear. The Sibling, the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher aren't like that, they represent more.

46 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

She represents the idea of Cultivation that humanity has (since Cultivation shaped her into that).

Very much untrue. Cultivation specifically made her to be independent from people's perception and to grow on her own. We know next to nothing about the Nightwatcher. It's hard to say what she represents as a spren.

46 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I have a theory that the unmaking of the unmade is a big part of the destruction of Honor. My theory is that the Unmade were created by Honor to fulfill certain roles on Roshar. When Odium unmade these massive splinters of Honor (bo-ado is extremely invested) this was the 'poisoning' of Honor that we see. After that he faded into death.

Poisoning of Honor? Not really, Honor was just Splintered in the direct clash with Odium. It just took him some time to die afterwards. Splinters are separate from Honor, they are independent. Corrupting Splinters won't affect Honor.

Unmade combined are less invested than the Stormfather. They are big Splinters, but individually much smaller than the Stormfather.

46 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

If Odium had made them, they would not be unmade.

They are still Odium's Splinters. They are made of his power. It's not that crystal clear.

46 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Midnight Mother - Spren of the idea of spren in the first place. The representation of spren existing / forming

I don't think there is anything like that. There is no such a thing like an idea of table, there is no such a thing like an idea of spren, they just are. 

46 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

When i mean that yelig-nar is the spren of the surges, I mean something akin to Honor created this spren to be the force / entity that restricts the surges. We know that Honor placed limitations, and he cant personally attend to everything all the time. I think this sprens existence tied the surges into what they are today. Ishar created the Radiant structure, but the actual restrictions on the surges themselves was done by honor through yelig.

Then those restrictions would have disappeared when Yelig-Nar was unmade. Yelig-Nar has existed at least since Nohadon's times, that' before the 6th Epoch, very early in Rosharan history - before Radiants were even created.

Edit:

2 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

I do wonder at the existence of only 9, when everything else Honor did was ten based. There are 10 days, 10 Gas Giants, 10 Heralds, 10 Surges....1010101010101010101010 

Easy fix, the Stormfather would be the 10th.

6 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

That's fair, but...Re-Shephir is already cognizant is she not? So maybe she had lost memories or something like that, but cognition doesn't seem to be something she lacks, more like an understanding of what it is to be human.

She is lacking it. She isn't fully sentient, she isn't as intelligent as humans are. She is more like an animal, driven by her instincts. OB ch 30:

Quote

This spren was not completely aware, not completely cognizant. She was a creation of instinct and alien curiosity, drawn to violence and pain like scavengers to the scent of blood.

27 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

Sure! Sorry, I was away from the forums all weekend. In OB ch 32, Shallan is relaying her experiences with confronting Re-Shephir, and ruminating on them. Specifically, she thinks:
 

Emphasis is in text, not mine. 

Shallan is not specifically an expert or anything in the field of Unmade study, however, she has confronted more of them than any other PoV we've had so far, and had the most intimate contact with Re-Shephir. 

Thanks. I find it possible, I would not dismiss this statement. One theory about Re-Shephir is that she used to be a Midnight Aetherbound. But we don't need that specific connection to Midnight Aether - when investiture is corrupted in a specific way, it manifests as Midnight Essence. How can a human become a Splinter? No idea. 

But as you said, Shallan isn't an expert. It's possible that Re-Shephir isn't looking specifically for her lost humanity, but rather for her lost cognition, as for example she used to be a sentient Splinter for example. A person, but not a human. 

49 minutes ago, Moony47 said:

During the battle, Szeth insists to himself that Kaladin must have stolen an honorblade from the Shin, but Szeth himself has the Windrunner honorblade and the Shin don't have Nale's blade -  the two blades that would allow Kaladin to fly. So is Szeth just seriously insane at this point? Does he not know that Nale has his blade back? 

Hello, welcome to the Shard!

Yes, Szeth is clearly insane (just read how he behaves), he was grasping at straws trying to justify to himself that he was still Truthless. He knew Nale's Shardblade wasn't in Shin's hands. If he were to admit that Kaladin is a Radiant, that would mean he was never a Truthless and that would mean that he was responsible for every single person he killed, not his masters. Szeth clinged to the explanation given to him by Taravangian earlier in the book. He was desperate and broken, he was in denial, but in the end he accepted the truth and gave up his bond with the Honorblade, falling to his death.WoR I-14:

Quote

“You fought a Surgebinder?” Adrotagia said, glancing at Taravangian.
“Yes,” Szeth said. “An Alethi man who fed upon Stormlight. He healed a Blade-severed arm. He is . . . Radiant . . .” That strain in his voice did not sound safe. Taravangian glanced at Szeth’s hands. They were clenching into fists time and time again, like hearts beating.
“No, no,” Taravangian said. “I have learned this only recently. Yes, it makes sense now. One of the Honorblades has vanished.”
Szeth blinked, and he focused on Taravangian, as if returning from a distant place. “One of the other seven?”
“Yes,” Taravangian said. “I have heard only hints. Your people are secretive. But yes . . . I see, it is one of the two that allow Regrowth. Kholin must have it.”
Szeth swayed back and forth, though he did not seem conscious of the motion. Even now, he moved with a fighter’s grace. Storms.
“This man I fought,” Szeth said, “he summoned no Blade.”
“But he used Stormlight,” Taravangian said.
“Yes.”
“So he must have an Honorblade.”
“I . . .”
“It is the only explanation.”
“It . . .” Szeth’s voice grew colder. “Yes, the only explanation. I will kill him and retrieve it.”

WoR ch 86:

Quote

“I am Szeth-son-son-Vallano,” the man said. “Truthless . . . Truthless.” He looked up, eyes wide, teeth clenched. “You have stolen Honorblades. It is the only explanation.”
[...]
Szeth twisted in the air, Lashing himself back into a hovering position. He looked at the spear, then seemed to tremble. “No. Truthless. I am Truthless. No questions.”
Stormlight streaming from his mouth, Szeth threw his head back and screamed; a futile, human sound that dissipated in the infinite expanse of sky.
[...]
They continued their chase, but Szeth did it falling backward along the stormtop, his eyes on Kaladin. Wild eyes. “You’re trying to convince me!” he shouted. “You can’t be one of them!”
“You’ve seen that I am,” Kaladin shouted back.
“The Voidbringers!”
“Are back,” Kaladin shouted.
“THEY CAN’T BE. I AM TRUTHLESS!” The assassin panted. “I need not fight you. You are not my target. I have . . . I have work to do. I obey!”
[...]
“It is actually true,” Szeth whispered.
“Yes.”
Szeth nodded, and the edge of tension seemed to fade from him, replaced by an emptiness in his eyes. “Then I was right all along. I was never Truthless. I could have stopped the murders at any time.”
“I don’t know what that means,” Kaladin said. “But you never had to kill.”
“My orders—”
“Excuses! If that was why you murdered, then you’re not the evil man I assumed. You’re a coward instead.”
Szeth looked him in the eyes, then nodded.

OB ch 107:

Quote

He stopped at the top of the steps and looked down at his hand, where a glistening Shardblade appeared. One of the two missing Honorblades. Szeth’s people had care of eight. Once, long ago, it had been nine. Then this one had vanished.

19 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Do any other enhancements help shardplate? Or does Shardplate operate at its own peak always only?  

I see shardplate being over half a ton as a really neat thing but I don't know if that would limit its capabilities?  The power in the shardplate is what allows it to do what it does right?  Without the leggings you couldn't move just wearing the upperhalf most likely. So I wonder where plate negates other abilities and where it doesn't. 

Arm wrestling plate only vs a pewterarm in plate vs brute ferring in plate? 

When Dalinar is racing in Way of Kings... if one of the plate wearing contestants were also a pewter arm or steel runner would they have an advantage? 

I believe it's additive but a Shardplate grants such massive enhancements that even a Thug flaring pewter wouldn't be that much stronger than another Shardbearer. A Shardplate levels the fighting field. 

19 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Could a plate wearing iron ferrings tap a few thousand pounds and the plate be enough to support the weight and allow them to move and fight as usual?  

No, it will help hold your increased mass, but the plate has limits of how much it can lift - the more mass you have the harder it is for your plate to move you, the weaker it gets. And if you tap too much weight, you can even crash your Shardplate. Dalinar's plate was cracking when he was holding the Chasmfiend's claw, Dalinar's plate was crushed when he was buried under rocks in OB - there are limits on how much weight a plate can support.

19 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I imagine dead plate would cut off all lines and thus steel and iron allomancy would be useless in it.  It likely would also block the emotional metals as it protects the user so long as they have the helm on. 

Would you still be able to see atium shadows from inside of plate?  

A dead plate stops all kinds of investiture use. It will block emotional Allomancy, it might block steelsight. But Atium shadows? Hard to say. They are effects of peering into the Spiritual Realm. A Shardblade will still leave an Atium shadow, so I find it possible that a dead Shardplate won't stop you from using Atium because all of this is happening in SR.

1 hour ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

Wait I thought Pewter and Tin were used for Augmenter/Diminisher Fabrials? The Coppermind:

So what is the difference between these metals?

Painrial is both an Augmenter and Diminisher and it's confirmed to use at least brass. The difference might be with the type of Spren used and effect gained from an Fabrial - Painrial affects emotions and probably an emotion Spren (I guess it's a Painspren), while something like a heating fabrial affects nature Spren (Flamespren) and natural phenomena like fire/heat.

19 minutes ago, Nightstar The Bright said:

The Coppermind has the following to say about the use of Zinc and Brass in Fabrials:

I don’t really understand what this actually does (what happens when the spren manifests more/less?). Can someone explain it to me? (Preferably with the use of an example)

I think it just makes the Fabiral's effect stronger/weaker. Painrial uses brass to diminish pain, zinc likely amplifies pain. Coppermind:

Quote

The artifabrian Longshadow designed a painrial that was quite large, about the size of a fist,^[4] and had a set of claw-like legs which were wrapped around the pained area and locked in place with a clip.^[1] That particular painrial was powered by a ruby and made of polished brass.^[4]

Basically zinc works with augmenters, brass with diminishers.

Hello, welcome to the forum!

On 3/10/2024 at 2:46 PM, Stupidity said:

In order to change gravity, a surgebinder must change one of three things: Space-time, the lashed object's mass, or everything else's mass. A basic lashing most likely affects the second one, as that is much simpler. BUT, a basic lashing can change the direction of gravity, and that would require altering space-time. Can a surgebinder alter spacetime separately from a basic lashing?

The way the Surge of Gravitation changes the gravitational acceleration and the direction of it isn't by changing masses or Affecting spacetime, it's by changing the spiritual Connection to gravity of affected objects. In Cosmere the Physical Realm is only one "dimension" of reality, there is also the Cognitive Realm (realm of the mind) and the Spiritual Realm where investiture and souls exist. The Surge of Gravitation affects your Connection to gravity, Connecting you to a virtual supermassive object in the Lashed direction, that doesn't actually exist. It doesn't change mass or warp spacetime, all work is done in the Spiritual Realm, not Physical. WoBs:

On 3/10/2024 at 2:46 PM, Stupidity said:

I am also curious of half and double lashings. Since a double lashing doubles gravity, it must also double time. Meaning that from a lashed object's perspective the rest of the cosmere would be moving half as fast.

No, that's not how time dilation works. Planets with double the mass of Earth don't have half as slow time passage. The difference in time dilation caused on such a low mass scale is miniscule. For example the Sun is around one million times more massive than the Earth and on the surface of the Sun time passes slower only by a minute or so per year. That's nothing.

Because the Surge of Gravity doesn't affect masses or warp spacetime, no gravitational time dilation would happen - I guess, depending on how the Spiritual Connection would play with it. Would it fool the soul so much that it would behave like it was in the gravitational field dictated by a Lashing or not? If yes then gravitational time dilation would happen, but you would need massive amounts of Lashing - you probably can't even have that much Stormlight in the first place to generate such visible effects. The time dilation that would be important is due to speeds involved - a Surgebinder can Lash himself to eventually reach near light speed velocities and that would make him experience a considerable time dilation.

On 3/10/2024 at 2:46 PM, Stupidity said:

One may think of this as gravity actually staying the exact same, and only time changing speed relative to the lashed object. Therefore, from a windrunner's or skybreaker's perspective, they would have trouble telling how gravity is changing, and would only perceive a change in time.

That's not something that is happening in books. The world around them doesn't suddenly slow down when they use the Surge of Gravitation. 

On 3/10/2024 at 2:46 PM, Stupidity said:

And also what sort of time travel a reverse lashing would induce. A negative lashing may be the same as lashing in the opposite direction to normal gravity. Also, if a negative lashing or quarter lashing is what creates time travel to the past, should it not be impossible in the stormlight archive?

You really went wild by the end here. All of this doesn't work like that. Reverse Lashing doesn't work like that, it's a combination of the Surges of Gravitation and Adhesion. And backwards time travel is definitely and canonically impossible in Cosmere:

25 minutes ago, Pseudonymous said:

I just came across this in OB chapt 92 where zeth is speaking with Nightblood. I seem to remeber some WoB's since this post was originally created, where brandon implied honor blades are conscious. I'm wondering, could this be eluding to, or foreshadowing, that an honor blade was speaking in zeths mind? As we know he practiced with them when he was young.

Please do not necro-post - this topic is almost 3 years old, it's against the site's polity to revive threads that old.

The WoB you're referring to:

Honorblades are self-aware but that's not the same as having the ability to talk - which they don't have. They aren't sapient.

I think it was a spren bonding with Szeth and talking to him. Szeth had to somehow know that a new Desolation is coming and who would know it better than a spren feeling it coming? The question then is what happened to that spren and their bond. I think the spren was either captured in a gemstone, or the bond was broken by Szeth's father, who had Ishar's Honorblade and Bondsmith's power. But if the bond was broken and spren wasn't imprisoned, where would they be now? They should bond someone else.

12 hours ago, Lighteyed Lieutenant said:

Ok, so I just had a friend finish ROW, and I explained the controversy surrounding Moash. I know it's kind of a meme, but I want to know the general leaning of the fandom on this subject. Personally, I cannot forgive him for his crimes against my emotional state, but what do you guys think? Should Moash burn on Braize for the next eternity? Or should he be forgiven and have a redemption arc? Let me know!

Oh, Moash did everything wrong, the question in the poll should be if he deserves redemption. Maybe, but right now I don't want him to get redemption - he never felt sorry for what he did. Dalinar did worse, but he at least felt remorse. But Moash is not there yet and I'm not sure if feeling remorse is enough for me. RoW ch 111:

Quote

“Teft, I…” He couldn’t say it. The words wouldn’t form. He wasn’t sorry for what he’d done. He was only sorry for how his actions made him feel.

11 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

we can forgive Moash for killing one sympathetic character

In my opinion  that wasn't the worst thing Moash did. A much worse crime he committed was telling depressed Kaladin to kill himself. Even killing Teft was done to break Kaladin. That's pure malice.

9 hours ago, Dofurion said:

Well I think I have to clarify this. I use the differentiation of emotional or natural spren, because it is an in-world classification as reflected in the coppermind.
An emotional spren is any spren that represents an idea/thought that cannot be collected within the physical objects that surround us. (That's why Glorysprens, hungersprens and logicsprens fall into this category despite not being typical emotions)

Which brings you no closer to explaining why Honorspren and Highspren are spren of emotions. Binding things together is a natural phenomena, it's one of the fundamental forces of Cosmere that Honorspren represent - that's fully on the nature side of spren classification. All True Spren represent fundamental forces - Surges.

Edit: This is your definition of emotional spren, with which I disagree. Emotional spren respond to emotions.

7 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

What makes cryptics natural? They're "liespren", that seems very on the emotional side of things to me

No, they aren't liespren, they are called liespren, they don't like that name. They like lies because they don’t understand them. Cryptics represent numbers (their names are literally numbers), the mathematics that govern the universe. 100% spren of nature. OB ch 97:

Quote

“We’re each a bit of power made manifest. We honorspren mimic Honor himself. You Cryptics mimic … weird stuff?”
“The fundamental underlying mathematics by which natural phenomena occur. Mmm. Truths that explain the fabric of existence.”

11 hours ago, Treamayne said:

So, I would say that M:TFE Ch 1-4 Vin would probably not have become a Windrunner (if anything, Edgedancer maybe - remembering the fogotten)

I think the early TFE Vin would be best fit for Lightweavers - there is a lot of truths she had to realized in that period: she can't trust, she can't have friends, she wasn't loved by her brother, she can't love and be with Elend and things like that - for some of those things it took Vin almost to the end of WoA to acknowledge. Not to mention that a Lightweaver would fit well for her role as a Mistborn/assassin.

1 hour ago, LightRinger said:

Since Hemalurgy alters the Spiritual DNA, would a spiked person pass that Spiritual DNA on to their offspring without the soul damage of Hemalurgy? Like, if two people were spiked to have two Feruchemical powers each, would their child have the increased likelihood of being a Feruchemist without the Hemalurgical damage?

No, WoB:

1 hour ago, TwinSouls said:

Ok, so I was re-listening to The Well of Ascension, and

Could Vin have become a Windrunner? (If different planet and such.)

I don’t have an exact quote, but it said something like:

  Reveal hidden contents

‘She felt good about the killing because she was protecting those who could not protect themselves.”

It was nearly the exact same words as the Second Ideal of the Windrunners.

So, ignoring all obvious holes in my logic, could Vin have sworn the Second Ideal?

  Reveal hidden contents

I know I’m being a little repetitive.

 

Yes, definitely. She is a prime candidate for a Windrunner. After all, she was the ideal Vessel of Preservation, who is all about preserving people, she died to protect all of Scadrial, she fits Windrunners very well.

1 hour ago, Returned said:

Unless you have something like a WoB on this I think you may be overreaching. Not necessarily wrong, but beyond what the evidence dictates. Just because they don't "seem to" represent ideas that are easy for you to come up with doesn't mean that your imagination sets the boundaries for what is true about the characters.

I agree, that's why they only seem to. Nergaoul and Ashertmarn are the easiest to find some connection to concepts like battle rage and lust. But others? The more intelligent they get the harder it is to connect them to some ideas (the same can be said about the Sibling and Nightwatcher). But we still haven't seen half of them. However, they aren't attracted by lust or blood frenzy, they cause it, which is unlike other Spren. 

Maybe Unmades and Greatspren are just too big to represent ideas, too sentient to be attracted, were made by their Shards in a way that just makes them greater than a single idea?

1 hour ago, Returned said:

The Stormfather is humans' conception of storms and the divine (or so he says, at any rate) in the same way that windspren are humans' (well, and probably Singers') conception of wind. If not for the Stormfather's description of himself I doubt that we'd map those qualities to him as his being the spren of those ideas. It's probably not what he always was, either-- before Tanavast died the divinity angle probably wasn't there. But he's a spren of divinity now, even if he's not a divinityspren in the same sense that a spren of wind is a windspren.

The Stormfather is the father of Highstorms, that's an easy connection. His "divinity" came from his status as Honor's Cognitive Shadow. He's not any Spren of divinity, he's just a Cognitive Shadow of the dead god.

6 hours ago, Dofurion said:

• Honorspren (Emotional)

What emotion does Honorspren represent? Disagree. They are spren of the idea of Honor, spren of binding things together, of promises, oaths and nobility - not emotions. WoK ch 67:

Quote

“Perhaps not. You see, I’ve remembered what kind of spren I am.”
“Is this the time for it, Syl?”
“I bind things, Kaladin,” she said, turning and meeting his eyes. “I am honorspren. Spirit of oaths. Of promises. And of nobility.”

True Spren are Spren of ideas, Spren of fundamental forces of Cosmere. Spren of nature.

6 hours ago, Dofurion said:

You see, this is the state my theory was in until the Skybreakers video came out and I realized one thing, Highspren are emotional type Sprens, not natural types:

With this description I realized that this is exactly what the Highspren represent, they represent that feeling that everything must have a reason, the feeling of looking at the sky and feeling small in the world, of not having control and that a higher entity takes the reins. They are an emotional Spren, and also fits more with the theme of the order.

The quote doesn't support this statement. First, it's about Skybreakers not Highspren, secondly those aren't emotions, those are abstract concepts.

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

In BoM, the Kandra VenDell mentioned that the Terris elite were doing their best to condense their bloodlines in the attempt to restore the power of Feruchemy, which could supposedly bring back Full Feruchemists.

My question is, does this even sound possible? Can you condense the genetic code of a specific "watered-down" lineage over time to eventually restore it, effectively increasing the DNA percentage of lost bloodline in the new generation? I might be thinking about this the wrong way (if so, please correct me), but wouldn't the child of two half Terris still be only half Terris genetically?

And, even if it were possible to condense the bloodlines to restore Full Feruchemists, wouldn't that cause inbreeding?

Now, I know we're not talking about physical DNA, but spiritual DNA, which works by different rules, but there have to be some similarities between the two, and we only have real knowledge on physical DNA to work with.

I did try to Google this question first so as to not waste any of your time, but I couldn't find an answer to my question, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

Dominant and recessive genes. It's been a while since I've learnt this, but this seems to be fully possible. Two Feruchemist have greater chances of having a child that is also a Feruchemist (or have strong Feruchemical genes that can be pass down another generation), than a Feruchmist parent with a non-Feruchemist parent - we've already seen Set doing this to Allomancers successfully with their prisoners under Bilming. 

Inbreeding won't be a problem. There are thousands of Feruchemist, potentially millions of Terris people out there. To prevent negative effects of inbreeding for future generations you need like 100-300 different people as your starting group. Then can easily mix together and avoid inbreeding.

Brandon said that there are 3 different sets of DNA: physical, cognitive and spiritual - I think for now we can assume that they all work more or less in the same way.

2 minutes ago, Unholy Truth said:

Is it confirmed that they are original splinters of odium? If something similar were to happen to syl when shes in physical form, would we see a similar effect on kalidan? Because its ripping off a piece of the spirit ?

We don't know anything about Unmades before they were unmade. We know the process basically kills them. We don't know where they came from, or what unmaking would do to someone bonded with that spren. 

1 hour ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Copperclouds can protect one from being sensed by Seekers, and any beings that detect Kinetic Investiture. They can also protect from emotional allomancy.

Copperclouds have limits to their strength and can be pierced by a strong enough Seeker. 

So would it be possible, even hypothetically for a Smoker to become so powerful, either momentarily through Duralumin or permanently through Lerasium-Copper alloy, that they can either block the sight of a Shard or at least protect them from having their emotions messed with?

Maybe, but a Shard has vastly more power than any Smoker can ever dream of - their Coppercloud would always be pierced. 

41 minutes ago, Lego Mistborn said:

Caveat 3: OB spoilers

  Hide contents

Renarin throws off Odium's plan somehow because of Odium's blind spot. We don't know what every shard's blind spot it, though we know Ruin's was metal. Utilizing blind spots would be a much easier way to hide from one shard in specific.

OB spoilers:

56 minutes ago, Unholy Truth said:

Quote

“Madness,” Ahu said, then giggled. “I used to think it wasn’t my fault. But you know, we can’t escape what we did? We let them in. We attracted them, befriended them, took them out to dance and courted them. It is our fault. You open yourself to it, and you pay the price. They ripped my brain out and made it dance! I watched.”

This is that quote you posted earlier, thinking more on it this still sounds at least very spren-like

Yes they are Spren, they are Splinters, I meant they don't seem to represent any ideas like Syl, or Windspren are. Windspren represent wind, they are the idea of the wind - Unmades aren't attracted to anything, they don't represent ideas, they just are. It's hard to come up with this relation between each unmade and some idea, something that is easily recognisable for any other Spren living on Roshar. 

That's because Unmades aren't a "natural" creation, they didn't develop being shaped by perception of people, they were something, then they were corrupted and unmade by Odium. 

15 minutes ago, Returned said:

I read alien as totally foreign to human-like thought patterns, with no common basis to compare with human, Listener, dragon, etc. We see something similar with spren, like Pattern, where they just don't quite get the way that humans think about things sometimes.

Yeah, that's a more reasonable possibility.

21 minutes ago, Returned said:

That said we don't really know anything about the Unmade and I've just been assuming that they are greatspren, similar to the Stormfather and Nightwatcher.

Per WoB posted earlier here, they all together are parallel to the Stormfather/Nightwatcher, but alone they aren't that invested.

16 minutes ago, Returned said:

I've spent some time thinking about what the Unmade might be spren of, but haven't been too satisfied with what I've come up with. Maybe part of that is because I've been thinking in the wrong direction!

I think you do think in the wrong direction. They aren't Spren (I mean not like Syl is an Honorspren, or Windspren are about winds - Unmades don't represent ideas), they are Unmades, they were unmade. We should search for what kind of being they were before they were unmade. But that's hard because we know nothing and they also know nothing about their own past. 

1 hour ago, listerfeend said:

While reading this, I'm reminded of the fact that Shallan was under the impression that Re-Shephir (Midnight Mother) may have been human at one time. What are we to make of this? She's certainly no expert, and definitely an unreliable narrator, but, of all of the POV's we've had, she has had the most contact, and the most intimate, with any of the Unmade.

Could you provide a quote? It's not in the OB ch 30, when Shallan confronts Re-Shephir. It is only said that the Unmade is fascinated by humans and began imitating them. It was also said that it feared imprisonment as she was imprisoned. Also this little word caught my attention:

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This spren was not completely aware, not completely cognizant. She was a creation of instinct and alien curiosity, drawn to violence and pain like scavengers to the scent of blood.

Alien?? You mean she's alien to Roshar? That's a solid argument for the theory about Unmades/Re-Shephir originating outside of the Rosharan system. 

Dalinar had the same kind of contact with the Thrill. 

3 hours ago, Block said:

In Warbreaker they say that the Returned come back from the dead, but how does that exactly work? We see that highly invested beings can sometimes be visited before they die, is that what is happening?

It's hard to explain without going into general Cosmere spoilers, but in the world they don't know it yet. What we know is that the voice Lightsong heard after his death is someone who gives some people a chance to Return. This is done by investing/giving those people a powerful Divine Breath (one Breath worth 2500 Breaths), which staples their soul back to their bodies, bringing them back to life.

Warbreaker ch 57:

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But above it all, he remembered standing on the other side of a brilliant, colorful wave of light, looking down at the world from the other side. And seeing everything he loved dissolve into the destruction of war. A war greater than any the world had known, a war more deadly—even—than the Manywar.
He remembered the other side. And he remembered a voice, calm and comforting, offering him an opportunity.
To Return.

Very slight Cosmere spoilers about the mechanic of Returning:

2 hours ago, Glory Spren said:

Well you could also have different alloys made up of the same metals, just of different proportions.

Let's say that Harmonium is something like idk, 60% Preservation and 44% Ruin. That could be an alloy while other proportions could be different.

Maybe something like 60% Ruin and 40% Preservation would result in a totally different alloy potentially, maybe Discordium?

Apparently they can be called the same alloy - different types of Shardblades have different amounts of Honor and Cultivation in them, yet they all are considered as the same alloy. That's a valid way of looking at alloys from the metallurgic perspective - an alloy doesn't have a fixed proportion, you can have the metal proportion in a certain range and still consider them as the same alloy, for example steel.

2 hours ago, Glory Spren said:

Don't Scadrians have a bit of ruins investiture as well? I know he also got a lot from the well and that was Preservations power and sustained/stabilized his cognitive shadow, but I always assumed there was still a good bit of Ruins investiture left in his cognitive shadow.

They do, but it doesn't matter for him, he died and became a Cognitive Shadow. His soul was basically fossilized - it was invested and replaced by Preservation's investiture. He is now 100% of Preservation. But you can technically argue for both cases, it isn't known if the soul is copied or it stays and is massively invested. Either way, he is at least 99.9% of Preservation now.