Starla

Love this one: Also, there was a moment in Shadesmar where Shallan off-handedly mentions that Pattern is standing around thinking about numbers. The math geek in me was rolling on the floor with that one. I've tried to find the exact quote and can't, so I may have made it up in the midst of my delirious reading frenzy.

Thank you for this. Shallan’s mental state is my main concern in this whole story arc. She doesn’t even consider the option of taking some time to sort out her issues before jumping into a permanent commitment. As soon as Adolin offers to step aside she latches onto him for dear life, like the thought of being alone terrifies her. Once she made the split-second decision on which man she wanted to be with (ugh), the wedding couldn’t come fast enough. There is no time for thought and reflection on all that has happened in the past weeks and months, including the fact that just a few minutes earlier she auto-shifted into another persona and gaped openly at another man. She waves it off that those are Veil’s thoughts, not her own. Adolin doesn’t seem concerned about it either, which is another red flag. She says re. Veil's infatuation with Kaladin "I won’t let her act on it. I promise," and he waves it off like it's nothing, and they are married within the week. This was another scene that really bothered me. She creates these illusions and they talk to her. Where does she think Veil's and Radiant’s thoughts are coming from? Did she consciously create their responses, or does she think they are speaking of their own volition? I half expected Tyler Durden to show up at this point. I am a bit bummed that I became disillusioned with Shallan in this book (pun intended). She had an interesting arc in Part 1 with the unmade storyline, and the beautiful scene with Wit in Part 3, where he gave great advice and the freedom to talk openly about her identity issues. I thought this would be a turning point for her and she would begin to stabilize and heal. However by the end of the book it seemed she was worse than ever. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I love Kaladin and want what’s best for him, and by the end of the book I was relieved she didn’t “choose” him. I don’t think she's ready for a strong, lasting relationship. Maybe Adolin will help her heal, but that is not the kind of growth I had hoped to see for her. I was hoping she would find the strength within herself to re-integrate the broken facets of her mind, and then make relationship choices and commitments from a strong healthy place. The way this was written, there seems to be setup for drama or problems in future books, but at this point my primary hope is that Kaladin and Adolin can stay close friends and that Kaladin can find his happiness elsewhere, whether alone or with someone else. I do not want to see him watching Adolin and Shallan and ruminating over what might have been, or Shallan continuing to waver between the needs and desires of each of her personas. I also hope I come around on Shallan, but at this point I’m not feeling her, which makes me sad.

The Shadesmar section was my favorite part of the book. I love the spren and am fascinated by the Cognitive Realm. A few observations from this section: Is Captain Ico Timbre’s father? Ico said his father was a radiant spren who is now a dead shardblade, and that his daughter used to work in Celebrant before leaving to chase stupid dreams. Timbre said her grandfather was killed by a radiant. If they are related, this would make the Reachers Willshaper spren, if that’s what Venli bonded. I loved getting Syl’s backstory. She's an ancient Honor princess who is so well known in Shadesmar that people recognized her despite Shallan’s illusion and a big floppy hat. And the Stormfather is an overprotective dad. I also loved her and Kaladin’s interactions. She’s very loving and cuddly and it was nice to see them interact in a different way. Pattern is not very cuddly, but is awesome in his own way. At one point Shallan said he was standing around thinking about numbers and I laughed out loud. Also, it seems that he and Syl like each other, which is nice. I would love that have seen a little more from him in this section. What’s deal with the oracle orb in the lighthouse that showed Kaladin a future vision? It seemed connected to the highstorm, and the stormfather sensed his presence when he touched it, but I don’t believe Honor has any access to foretelling. Could it use magic from another world, maybe Sel? It's great to see Kaladin and Dalinar’s strong connection in this section. Poor Maya. I am curious about what happens to her when Adolin is in the physical realm. Does she disappear in the CR when he summons his blade? And when it’s not summoned, does she move around in the CR to follow his movements? With all of the oathgates and Cultivation’s perpendicularity guarded by voidspren, it seems Azure and other worldhoppers may be trapped in Shadesmar for a while. I hope Jasnah can perfect her Elsecalling abilities so someone can move between realms. I want to see more of it. What’s the deal with painting Kaladin saw in Celebrant? The merchant said it was from the Court of the Gods. Could this be related to Lightsong in some way? It’s been a while since I read Warbreaker, but I recall paintings being a big deal for him.

Interesting, I hadn't made this connection. I'm pretty sure whoever kills the shardearer can claim the shards. He gave Oathbringer to Dalinar, and I wondered if he would give Heleran's blade and plate to Shallan. Maybe he will keep them and bring them home to his people. He may not want to be King though. Perhaps that's why he was sitting alone with his head in his hands.

I agree with others that this plot thread was a little clunky. Kaladin is my main man, so I usually look at things from his angle. I want whatever is good for him. I went into Oathbringer open to him having a relationship with Shallan if that’s what made him happy and nobody got hurt (I also love Adolin so I wouldn't want it at his expense.) However, by the end of the book I felt that Kaladin dodged a bullet. This is mainly due to Shallan’s increasingly erratic behavior throughout the book. I don't think she's ready for a long term committed relationship to anyone, and I would be concerned for Kaladin if he ended up in a relationship with her at this point. He has too much going on with the desolation and his own growth as a radiant to deal with all that. I like Shallan and hope she can heal and find stability, but I am concerned that she will rely on her partner for that stability, rather than finding it within herself. At the end of the book it felt like she was completely rattled by her rapidly shifting feelings and personalities and grabbed a life raft wherever she could find it. Adolin is stable and steady and he makes her feel safe. He’ll be there when she needs him. I don’t think this will fix her issues, it is the illusion of security, and I worry for them in the long run. Also, the Shadesmar section revealed some character traits I hadn’t considered before. Looking at Kaladin and Syl’s interactions, they are very much a dynamic duo, fiercely loyal, each looking out for the other before they look out for themselves. This Kaladin’s nature, he works well in a team and usually puts others' needs first. Shallan, on the other hand, is independent and focused on her own goals. I get the sense that this is part of her fundamental nature as an artist and a Lightweaver. Artists are focused on their own ideas and creations. Even her relationship with Pattern seems more academic than personal. They had very little interaction in Shadesmar, aside from whatever information Pattern could give. If and when Kaladin ever does have a relationship, I feel like he would work best with a strong, grounded partner who will have his back when he needs it, and I’m no longer sure Shallan can do that. Aside from all that, I love the continuing bromance between Kaladin and Adolin, so I’m rooting for that to continue no matter where the romantic relationships lead.

This is an interesting distinction, and I think it is why it is such a difficult oath to make. In the text he says "Could he really say these Words? Could he mean them?" (italics in the book) He knows that he needs to truly embody the oath once he makes it, and he is not ready. He has to make a fundamental change in himself, and this takes time, healing, and growth as a person. The epigraph about the Windrunners implies that the fourth ideal is a hard one, not just for Kaladin but the order as a whole. It makes sense that a person whose fundamental nature is to save and protect would have a hard time dealing with losing those under under their protection. An oath related to letting go of the lost would help keep them from eventually being consumed by grief. I do think there are ways to change repetitive emotions and thought patterns. It's not easy, it takes time and practice, but I think it is will be necessary for Kaladin, or any Knight Radiant, to fulfill their potential in a healthy way. The KR are at war and Kaladin will keep losing people. He can't shove the hard feelings into the back of his mind like Shallan can, so he's going to have to learn to deal with it sooner or later. Hopefully sooner, so it's not too drawn out (plus I want to see that shardplate).

Here is the three parts of this scene put together: The fact that he knows the words but cannot speak them, while thinking of all the people he failed to protect, makes me think it relates to letting go of people he lost. He cares deeply for these people and is still grieving over every one, and probably feels that letting go of them is too painful or a betrayal of his connection to them. This is common in the loss of a loved one, where people can’t move on because they are afraid they will lose that person forever, and it can cripple them to where they can't act in the present. I can't think of anything else that would make him sob openly than the thought of letting Tien go. There is a fine line between caring too much and caring too little, and I think he'll need to find that to be able to say these words.

Just finished this part. I had a list of observations, but all coherent thought has been tossed aside by those last couple of chapters. EGADS! I suspected Elhokar might die in this book, but it was so hard to read! And just as he was about to say the first ideal! That's just the worst... Moash may have just surpassed Amaram for douchbaggery. And little Gavinor gone too? And now they are trapped in Shadesmar. Shallan, Kaladin, Adolin, Vivenna (!!), Big Syl, Big Pattern, and Big... Shallash? Did we also lose Skar, Drehy, Vhathah, and everyone else on the team? All while Dalinar has a meltdown? Looking pretty bleak at this point...

Just finished this part and it was SO GOOD. I was captivated by every chapter. A few random thoughts: The Bridge Four chapters have my heart. Every perspective was unique and there were several tearjerker moments. Rock's family, Teft's addiction, Rlain's isolation, Hobber, Skar, and Lin finally using stormlight... I love these people. And I have been waiting for years for the squire training sessions and it exceeded expectations.They have access to the surges! They can fly on their own, or at least when Kaladin is within 50 miles. YAY. And Kaladin can lash multiple non-squires along with him. YAY. Who is the big lady spren and smaller spren near Bridge Four? New honor spren in the making? Syl seemed to know white spren, but I didn't grasp what was happening there. I think Jasnah is my new second favorite character. I love her POVs, everything about Ivory, her fellow scholars (especially the baker guy), the fact that she can read lips, and her general no-BS attitude. And her reaction to Amaram? Priceless. "you are a detestable buffoon who achieves only the lowest level of mediocrity, as it is the best your limited mind can imagine" is my favorite quote so far. And what the heck happened to her as a child? Did she lose her mind and get locked away for a while? Maybe that's why she maintains a firm hold on logic now. Shallan, hmmm. Jasnah's appearance certainly threw her for a loop. I loved her chapters even more than her chapters in part 1, but the fact that she has no idea what she's doing, or how to "be" around Jasnah, is disconcerting. I hope her trip to Kholinar helps her clear her head (that should be a fun trip). And did she use the word "fractal" to describe Pattern? Do they know this term on Roshar? Regardless, as someone who is often called "fractalhead" as a nickname, my brain exploded in joy a little. Renarin: lots of interesting info from him. I hope he finds his place. I was so happy when Shallan stood up for him. And I can't wait to see what he uncovered in the library. I got the sense that it is a sound version of the library. Audiobooks? Lift, holy cow. Talking about Dalinar's tight butt. I cannot WAIT for her to arrive in Urithiru. Will she eat Rock's stew? Or chouta? The possibilities for hilarity is endless. Moash, what? I have a bad feeling that he will train Sah and Khen's group to fight, take them to Kholinar, and they will end up fighting Kaladin and Elhokar's party because vengeance. He'll probably end up on Odium's side, just ugh. And Odium himself, eek. He says he doesn't want a fight of champions. He just wants to be set free. I have some bad feelings about this, but it is related to one of this interludes right after part 2 so I'll come back to that later. Lots of mind-blowing info about the heralds, recreance, spren, voidspren, fused, etc. I can't wrap my mind around it all now. It will definitely take a second or third read (or reading discussions by all the smart people here) to get a handle on it. Dalinar's flashbacks: the biggest thing I took from these is that five year old Adolin is the cutest thing ever, and it's pretty sad that Renarin was a year old when Dalinar first saw him. He didn't even know his name. All I can say about Elhokar is that he painted over the strata. Seriously dude? I didn't try to figure out the epigraphs. Are you guys saying that Harmony wrote it? There is so much more to this part, but part 3 is calling.

It is amazing the Oathbringer board has 15,000 posts and the book hasn't been released yet.

This may have been covered and I missed it, but is Ulim bonded to Demid or Venli, or is he a non-bonded voidspren who is leading the group, like Yixli? I like his grumpy personality. These voidspren have a bit of snark. I am so sad for Eshonai! I had high hopes she would help out the newly awakened parshmen. About her comet spren, if it is a nahel bond spren who had bonded with her, wouldn't she have heard the screams from the dead shardblade? And if it had not yet bonded, she wouldn't have access to stormlight, in which case she is definitely dead. The other option a few folks have mentioned is that the comet spren is part of Eshonai's soul that was pushed out when the voidspren came in. If this is the case, can she move into a new body and still be Eshonai in another form? This might be too zombie-like for SA, but I'm grasping at any straw to keep Eshonai around.

Aaaargh, I wish I had seen your post in time for you to get the book!! At least we only have 1.5 days left now and most of us will be reading it at the same time. I've rearranged my work schedule and told everyone to leave me alone for Tuesday and Wednesday so I can have two full days of pure Rosharan bliss.

@mariapapadia I'm probably too late on this, but I saw a post on reddit in the last couple days that someone found it at the Oslo airport.

It's funny, I had that same thought while reading. And also that... I think I've been watching too much Star Trek.

@Asharielle Welcome! I also lurked for a long time before gathering up the nerve to post. Eventually my love for the books and need to talk about them exceeded my shyness, and now I can't shut up. I’ve continued to ponder the Kaladin/Stormfather interactions, and I think I’ve settled on them being mental projections by the Stormfather. Rereading the highstorm vision in the chasm scene convinced me, because Kaladin and Shallan both had a different vision, and Kaladin stood up and moved around during his. If he was seeing into Shadesmar, I think he would have fallen in a sea of beads or described the scene differently. Taking into account that the stormfather can project visions to Dalinar and anyone else of his choice, and spren in shardblade form can speak telepathically with their radiant, there must be some sort of mental connection between spren and human where visual and auditory communication can happen. There are also Kaladin’s highstorm dreams, which seem to be something different. He actually saw Szeth murder someone during the dream, and felt that Szeth could sense his presence. That sounds a bit like an out of body experience. Kaladin became lucid and realized he was dreaming while his body was back on the Shattered Plains, and his consciousness was traveling with the storm in real time. I don't believe this has happened to anyone else in the story. I assume it is Syl's connection with Stormfather that gives him this unusual access to the storm. I am fascinated by these interactions and hope we’ll get some answers when the Stormfather projects his visions to others.

This reminds me of a question I had... did Jasnah have her Ivoryblade prior to the assassination attempt, or did she say the oath and achieve the blade in Shadesmar? If the latter, can a spren take blade form in Shadesmar? It's hard to imagine Big Ivory becoming a shardblade. The spren seem much more substantial in the Cognitive Realm.

@mariapapadia I feel your pain. I've also been trying to track it down before the weekend, but I'm in the US so I haven't had high hopes. At this point, the best I can hope for is UPS delivering it a day early. It happened with A Memory of Light so I'm keeping fingers and toes crossed that history repeats itself. I'm sorry you've had to go through so many trials and tribulations tracking down the book, but I've quite enjoyed reading your reports.

As @muco mentioned above, I don't see Kaladin turning against humanity. Just because he can empathize with non-voidform parshmen/former slaves, doesn't mean that he'll stop protecting and empathizing with his own species. This would include turning his back on his parents and little brother, his fellow bridgemen, Dalinar and family, and everyone else he has worked so hard to protect. I think he'd be a poor champion for Odium if he is expected to harm anyone aside from full-on voidbringers. I don't see any of these four characters being Odium's Champion, nor Adolin or any other secondary character. I think the champion will be a voidbringer, unmade, spren, or other non-human entity. There was a reference in the early chapters that made me think this, but I have forgotten it now. I plan to reread the chapters over the weekend and will look for the clues I picked up the first time.

I’ve been thinking about what will happen when Kaladin tells Dalinar and the others that humans are being held captive in pens in Revolar. He’ll also tell them that the majority of the parshmen have not transformed into voidbringers, but are being gathered and directed by a few stormform parshendi and voidspren. I’m sure he’ll stress the fact that the parshmen are not evil, and only want to find a place to live free with their families, and are only following orders because they need guidance and don’t know what else to do. Having heard all that, I have a feeling the Alethi will only care that the humans are held captive, and will go in with spears and swords blazing to rescue the humans, fighting and slaughtering all parshmen and voidbringer Parshendi alike. I doubt they will make the effort to discern between void-forms and regular parshmen. This could make the normal parshmen even angrier at humans. It’s unfortunate, because I feel like the parshmen could be allies with humans if given the right guidance, or at the very least, encouraged to resist the change into a void form. My hope is that some of them, perhaps the parshmen Kaladin travelled with, will resist the transformation and ally with humans against the Odium forms. Maybe some of the other Parshendi we’ve seen: the 1000 stormform escapees, a freed Eshonai, Rlain, can help gather and train the freed parshmen to be something other than voidbringers. But I doubt many humans will see the difference, so I'm worried for the parsh-folk. Likewise, I can see some humans joining the Odium bandwagon. We've already seen the void spren (Yixli?) trying to bring Kaladin over to their side, so they are not averse to human help. She said they will work with anyone who can hold a spear and take orders, so I can easily see humans on the other side, and hopefully parshendi on the non-Odium side.

That would be cool if he could create an air shield, but I don't think that's the case with the Stormfather visions. In the quote from Chapter 31, he says he could see the land below, but it was barren and empty, like he went to another place without people and human structures. Similarly, when he saw the Stormfather during the highstorm in the chasm in WOR, he noted that Shallan was gone, his leg no longer hurt, he could stand up in the small cubby, and the flood of water was frozen solid (time stopping?). Shallan also saw the SF in this episode, but seemed to see something different ("So vast . . . I could see stars in it, stars upon stars, infinity . . .”) I think it's a dream-like vision that happens outside of time within the recipient's mind. I find it interesting that a spren can send a vision like this, especially to two people at once who see it differently. Dalinar's visions are probably similar, though they seem to take place within time as he thrashes about and mumbles while acting them out. Hopefully we'll get more info when he has his Skype-visions with the monarchs.

I am curious where Kaladin goes when he sees the Stormfather. Quote from Chapter 31: Is it some place between the physical and cognitive realms, outside of time? Or is it happening inside his head, like a dream, similar to the highstorm dreams? I don't recall seeing any other instances of this otherworldly place, aside from Stormfather encounters. I believe Eshonai had a similar experience in the WOR, when she bonded the storm spren in the highstorm. Also, for a spren who seems to seriously dislike Kaladin, the Stormfather sure does interact with him a lot. He's like an overbearing dad who keeps showing up in the middle of his teenage daughter's dates, trying to intimidate the bad boyfriend with angry all-caps voice.

@WhiteLeeopard There is a WOB that says Syl was alive before the recreance. (#35 here.)

I wonder if she can transport herself to a place she's never been before? Can she look at a place on a map and instantly go there? Somehow I doubt it, but I look forward to seeing how Elsecalling works exactly. At the very least, I hope she doesn't chop people in half when her swirly portal opens.

Even though Shallan's all grown up now, I'm glad she still has Palona to bring her tea and blankets. It's always nice to have a Palona. Funny thing about checking local bookstores for the book... when I called the local Walmart, the lady had never heard of it so she looked it up online. She then proceeded to tell me they probably wouldn't carry it because they don't sell books that look that cool. All of the other book sellers have it in stock but won't sell it early. I begged, but no luck, woe is me.

Maybe Part 2 is told from the spren POV. How awesome would it be to see Syl, Pattern, Ivory, Stormfather, Glys, and Spark interact and commentate what's going on in Urithiru?