Meganagem

I think the magic is inconsistent because it depends on how he feels, if HE feels as though his oaths are broken, etc. He's struggling mentally with whatever choices he's made that have made him go against his oaths on Roshar. I get the sense that he could have his full armour and all that as soon as he gets over his mental and emotional guilt and crap. Honestly, he felt a lot like Kaladin before and during his oaths. Just wading through a mire of self-hatred, doubt, and heaps of guilt. When he gets over himself and focusses on protecting the people, the magic is there. He just currently feels as though he's too broken. Navani felt too broken, Adolin feels broken, Dalinar was broken and "repaired", Kal is broken and kinda sorta fixed but not. Shallan is shattered. They're all dealing with all their demons.

Guys, why do the Canticlites always say things such as "If it please you" My impression was that they may be.... influencee somewhat by Whimsy. "If you please" feels like it matters what pleased the person. Even the most reasonable requests they make come with, "If it suits you" prefaces. The only connection I could make was "if it suits your whim" Did that cross anyone else's mind?

I could blame a LOT of things for this crazy post where I skipped right over the English and my imagination went wild, but I shall resist the urge. Er, thanks. I clearly need a holiday.

Something I noticed that I haven’t seen talked about: His foreigners splashed down into the Purelake. Grump was last. He seemed very dissatisfied. “Where are you, Roamer? What a fool’s quest this is.” Then, he added in his own tongue, “Alavanta kamaloo kayana.” He splashed after his companions. “Well, you’ve got the ‘fool’ part right,” Ishikk said with a chuckle, turning his own direction and heading off to check on his traps. Why does Ishikk understand Grump? Grump is speaking in his own language, and Ishikk understands him. Why? How? Ishikk is more than he seems.

I think this is the most likely. He has been on path that has felt as though he's only going to keep sinking for a long time now. The signs that he is a. not dealing with his pain b. ashamed to a desperate degree c. feels that he can't be redeemed, are all there. He hasn't even gotten over the pain of the first loss and the attendant hatred for Elhokar, his shame at attacking Kaladin... his feeling foolish for being used by Graves without even knowing what the heck he was getting into. Andd then there's what he does at the end of OB. He's not going to just do a Dalinar "You cannot have my pain!" any time soon. And the damage he's likely to do before then is a staggering thought.

I just read something near the end of OB and immediately came to 17thshard to search “Renarin austism.” It was suddenly obvious that he’s on the spectrum somewhere.... I really enjoyed the WOB regarding psychology, as it put us all on a spectrum of varied ways of being, which I think is closer to the truth of it. i can easily take his word for it that Renarin isn’t quite where Steris is while at the same time accepting without doubt he is dealing with some of the associated issues... It is helpful to have the other WOB regarding Renarin and anxiety - a different story altogether. I just suddenly saw Renarin when I clicked about him being on the autism spectrum. How crappy must that be with Adolin as a brother and the Blackthorn as a father? a brother who has more than his fair share of social intelligence. As an aside: Steris has Aspergers. Kal deals with depression. Renarin has anxiety and stuff. And, jumping planets really quickly, Kelsier is as mad as a hatter. Lol

This made me LOL, after reading all the back and forth here.... The short answer to your OP is: Maybe, maybe not. End of.

Oh boy. Where do I begin? First, thanks to all of you who’ve managed to make me laugh out LOUD in public reading all this madness. I can’t even deal with talk about “western” sensibilities against arranged marriages. So I’ll leave all that. Triangle: Shallan is crazy as they come. In answer to the “short aside” about why a spren would bond a crazy person - I’d say I guess it’s down to the type of spren involved. Pattern is a cryptic living the life. I got the impression at the end of OB that the rush Brandon was in was actually Shallan’s rush. Can it end well? Probably not. But only because she’s nuts and she’s actually getting worse. None of it feels right to me. The only real moment has been that moment in the chasms with Kaladin. But doesn’t Kaladin deserve better? Flip.

Responding to the bit that's emboldened above.... One tiny clue to her motives may be found in her planning on Dalinar getting those memories back. She tells him that his memories will come back, very explicitly. And we understand from later events that Dalinar had to have that happen prior to facing Odium in order to defeat Odium or it would have been an onslaught he could not have handled.... He is very clear on that. That seems, how can I say it, friendly to the cause of humans, yes?

Ooooooh. I have to say that the minute Adolin broke/snapped and killed Sadeas I thought for the first time that he may become Radiant! I thought, "Here's something that can make or break him, that will define the rest of his path." Sadeas attempted to murder Dalinar and/or Adolin a few times. Surely there's something in that, to justify his actions in taking his life. Or would we all prefer that he did it the Alethi way and waited on a formally pronounced dual or something? " Upright, forthright, soldier" sounds like a handy sort of Knight. Elhokar. Storms, I love him now. Did his spren leave him because of his jealousy towards Kaladin? Something about Kal changed something within Elhokar which changed the behavior of the spren. I don't know nearly enough about the orders to even know if such a thing is likely or possible. Reminds me of Syl leaving Kaladin when he wasn't living up to his oath.....

*chuckle* Why thank you! You'll have to suggest to me which non-Cosmere books to get stuck into. As I said, I'm a rereader, so i happily read the same things again and again but there's a long wait to #3, so... Bring it on. "I love SA" means "I love South Africa" where I'm from. Not at 17thshard

kaellok I'm with you on loving them both, so there are at least two of us on the list. Oh, sure, they both drove me nuts from time to time - Kaladin for his brooding, gloomy, prejudice and for being so slow to realise that he was breaking his oath; Shallan for lots of the reasons others have found and may find her annoying. What was annoying was that they were so real. No person is 100% likeable all of the time. And poor choices, well, we do that a lot, too. Oh, and most of us also take freaking ages to learn lessons and learn them properly, so I should go a little easier on Kal. Lots of great insights have been shared in this thread about Shallan's motives, her trauma, and understanding her with empathy. I'll only add that, yep, she doesn't hate Pattern. And she does. Shallan's arc was perhaps not as satisfying as Kaladin's to me, but I appreciated both lines and I'm curious to see what happens with Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin.

Hello all! I'm a rereader so I've just been through large chunks of TWoK and WoR again, and I'm looking to learn more and be utterly prepared for a year from now when we finally lay our hands on number 3!! Love Mistborn (Vin and Wax), adore Stormlight, esp WoR, and gobbled up Elantris, which was enjoyable. Secret History was ......... Aaaaaaaaaah. Anyway, see y'all around.