robardin

After Sazed first tries to pitch a dead religion to her when she arrives at Renoux's mansion, while admitting that he had hundreds of them memorized and ready to go: Is everyone involved with Kelsier insane?

"Shinjas" with Honorblades? Oh dear, that one is going to stick in my head.

The big difference between getting stabbed or pierced by a flying piece of metal and that act having a hemalurgic effect is the Intent, right? Someone must be planning for that metal to become a spike, even if they're not the direct agent of the spiking (going by how Ruin was able to spike Spook for pewter by manipulating people to stab in the right place at the right time - though he was the Shard powering hemalurgy, and perhaps for a mortal they would have to be the direct agent?). So weaponizing hemalurgy into a gun would only really work when wielded by an educated hemalurgist. Still, does that imply someone from the Set who constructed a Tommy gun loaded with aluminum bullets could take down Miles? Susebron? The Lord Ruler, if caught by surprise? Hoid? What about shrapnel weapons, like a hand grenade or a land mine?

Yes, a song that was quite popular. In 1987. And doesn't get a lot of replay, unlike, say, Bon Jovi's "Living On A Prayer" I guess that's what happens when it's a song from an abused child's POV... I wonder what kind of a parent Rashek was? My name is Lutha - I live on the second floor... If you hear something late at night, Some kind of trouble, some kind of fight - Just don't ask me what it was

Ah, good memory! That actually accounts for a number of the names on my list, as shown in an inset map from the original Mistborn trilogy: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ashmounts And if I looked closer at the Alloy of Law map, I could probably find more of the other names there.

Yes, he could compound in every metal. On TOP of being the most powerful Allomancer, in raw strength. As has been mentioned repeatedly, the only reason he lost to Vin and Marsh in the throne room is because he was egotistical enough to want to monologue, as well as supremely overconfident. And with good reason: only someone who could draw on a Shardic level of power could challenge him (Vin pulling in the mists). Occam's Razor: you just don't have to resort to nicrosil compounding to explain his massive power in Allomancy; he had access to an even more direct and deeper connection to Preservation than a lerasium bead while Ascended.

Yes, TLR was stronger even than Elend, at least as much stronger than Elend than Elend was stronger than Vin, which is much stronger. Along with reflecting on how much stronger Elend's steelpushes were than hers (weight aside), Vin also thinks about how many more koloss Elend could soothe at a time than she could - and how even Elend couldn't compare to the massive Soothing of tens of thousands of people over an entire square of people that TLR routinely exhibited during executions. And of course, how TLR could push on the metals in her stomach in the throne room (which Elend apparently can't do). Think about it. Rashek could never have been weaker than a lerasium Mistborn, he'd be at least that strong just from ingesting a bead of it, which he set a few aside for later. The conclusion is that either he ate one to be that strong, or did something else (instead of, or in addition to, ingesting one) to be even stronger. Rashek would not have created Mistborn allies who were stronger than he was, compounding or no.

This is the first I've heard of Rashek having a child named Lutha. Did she live on the second floor? (Sorry, you probably need to 45+ years old to get that pop music reference) Rashek's children could not be Fullborn, as there is no natural way to combine the "genes" for being a Feruchemist with those for Allomancy without Ferring-ness resulting (which is the result of those genes mixing). Though I guess just as Mistborn are rare, maybe it's possible that a natural Mistborn who also "came up Feruchemist" in the sDNA roulette wheel might be a Fullborn? I seem to recall a WoB saying that TLR was the only Fullborn in history, and that future ones would only be possible with a Feruchemist like Sazed ingesting a lerasium bead, or via hemalurgy (Marsh is like 25% of the way to being a Fullborn). But I can't find that now with a search in the Arcanum. A natural born Misting is an expression of having more of Preservation than your average Scadrian, and being a natural Mistborn is having even more than that, with lerasium (ingesting the body of Preservation) granting maximum Allomancy short of actually temporarily Ascending to Preservation and becoming mortal again (Rashek). And that spiritual concentration of Preservation dilutes in the bloodline over time, based on TenSoon's internal musings that the children of the orignial noble lerasium Mistborn were all Mistborn, and that only over time did Mistings appear, and in ever-reduced strength. Given how powerful an Allomancer Rashek was - the Most Powerful Allomancer of All Time - I guess all his children would be extremely powerful Mistborn. So the question is, would that "swamp" the genes they might get from him for Feruchemy? If they could indeed be natural born Fullborn, that doesn't seem to be something Rashek would cotton to, and we'd certainly have some knowledge or mention in the history of TFE about a Prince or Princess Ruler who had the same power set. Unless he killed his own children of that type first, which is extreme even for him.

This is how I view it: he behind-the-scenes retconned the personal use of hemalurgy by TLR at some point, similar to him retconning his becoming Fullborn via lerasium bead into a direct Spiritweb upgrade from his temporary Ascension. The latter now explains why he'd be even stronger in Allomancy than Elend, instead of resorting to hemalurgy (who would he have spiked at the beginning, anyway, to steal attributes from?). I think all the WoB comments about how Rashek "accomplished his most dramatic effects with hemalurgy" are older ones, since superseded. Since he personally wrote on the Fadrex City cache plaque that he has heard Ruin's whispers in his head non-stop for centuries, the other conclusion is that being a Sliver, having once Ascended, has stretched him enough to two-way communicate with Ruin just as Preservation could do at any time.

There's only one named/titled Originator who we don't know who it is, "Lady Truth". So unless Hammond took an interesting developmental turn in his life, that's not him. He does have a "Hammondar Bay" named after him in the post-Catacendre world, though. I can see other geographical references to people and places of the Final Empire in Era 2, from looking at the map inside Alloy of Law: Elendel and the Elendel Basin, named for Elend Venture Sea of Yomend for Yomen, "the Last Obligator" Doxonar, named for Dox (as well as the apocryphal "Docksithium") Vindiel-Cameux, named for Vin and ? -- surely not her abusive skaa crewleader, Camon? Alendel, named for Alendi Rashekin, named for Rashek, The Lord Ruler Feltrel. Named for Felt? The House Venture spy and eventual worldhopper serving Dalinar on Roshar in SA? New Seran and the Seran Range, named for the FE establishment where the Conventical of Seran was The Faleast Range, possibly echoing the name of Fellise, where Kelsier killed Lord Tresting to kick off TFE Unknown but intriguing name origins (could also just be Brandon's in-jokes to friends and associates): Sea of Lennes Tyrian Sea Town of Covingtar Town of Doriel Town of Dazarlumue Channerel Range

Is it Honor telling him that, though? IS IT?!

The whole geographical linkage angle to the magic systems on Sel have to do with the Splintered power of Aona and Skai (Devotion and Dominion) being "stuffed into the Cognitive Realm" around Sel by Odium, right? I wonder if that also imparted some OP-ness at the same time, since generally, tapping Shardic power (as with Allomancy accessing the power of Preservation) is through the Spiritual Realm and works equally well throughout the Cosmere. Imagine if an un-Splintered Devotion granted AonDor to those Selish people selected as special "Devotees", who could then channel her power through drawn Aons to effect specific results, but without the limitation of being in or around Arelon. If it were as portable as Allomancy. Whoa.

Ah, now I remember I had a comment about that speculation, which was that musing about the utility of such a policy in his private notebook was not the same as implementing the policy as the Lord Mistborn, because clearly he did not do so: the knowledge and practice of hemalurgy was not, in fact, promulgated during or since his reign.

She didn't communicate directly with anybody, not even Elend, because Ruin blocked her from doing so. And on her own, there's no reason why she'd have given any focus to finding out All The Secrets to Allomancy, not when she had more immediate goals in front of her (Ruin being days, not weeks, away from achieving the destruction of all life on Scadrial), no way to pass that info onto mortal Allomancers anyway, and no way for those Allomancers to then leverage that info even if they had it. Even Kelsier, who is more of a personality type than Vin was to seek information in order to figure out how to turn it to his advantage, later admitted to Spook that he wished he'd focused on understanding hemalurgy while holding Preservation. And he held it for considerably longer than Vin did.

Aha! I thought I remembered this detail, but ascribed it to fan assumption. Or maybe what happened to him at the end of White Sand v3 was external. Like a reaction of the white sand to something else he had on him, a kind of nicroburst effect.

Maybe that is something specific to the Final Empire, then. Even in Europe's Middle Ages, iron and steel (though not weapons-grade steel, as for swords or armor) would have been the most common metal for things like hairpins, board nails, or everyday knives used for cooking and eating (spoons were probably wooden). Cookpots for lower class folks like skaa would be would probably just be earthenware, brass vessels would be expensive. Even pewterware would be somewhat upscale. But of course, The Final Empire is not Earth. Maybe pewterware was cheap and common. Still, I'd have thought "trace amounts" of iron would be far more likely than trace amounts of Allomantic brass - best explained by Camon intentionally supplying her with minimal amounts, enough to keep her unaware of her ability, but enough to make use of it (as he was evidently doing).

This aspect of steelsight or ironsight was hard for me to accept at first as well. After all, why describe them as specifically "blue" lines of varying intensity radiating out from one's center of gravity to the (center of gravity of) metal objects, if they aren't a kind of visual perception? And Inquisitors are described as turning their heads to look at people (Vin, Kelsier, etc.), which if they could see equally well without doing so, why would they? More problematic is the "instinctive burning" of Allomantic metals after one has Snapped. Vin didn't know what she was doing, but was able to burn "trace metals" she got in Camon's lair, such as pewter from the plates or mugs they used. Her only consciously used ability, her Soothing or "Luck", required brass, which seems odd to have as a "trace metal" (especially to an Allomantically correct alloy percentage), unless she was being fed it in small amounts by Camon who suspected what she was. But something like steel or iron should be VERY common as a trace metal available from everyday objects, far more so than pewter. If she could instinctively burn pewter and brass, why not steel or iron?

Put another way, based on what we know about the creation of blank-identity (unkeyed) metalminds, it involves filling a metalmind while simultaneously filling an aluminummind with Identity, resulting in the first metalmind being filled with an attribute that can be tapped by anybody with the Feruchemical ability to tap that metal. This is how Kelesina's goldmind ended up being usable by Wayne, to his great surprise. However, another aspect of using an unkeyed, no-identity metalmind is that even if someone could use it, the fact that it is an Invested metalmind at all must be known. Wayne only thought to use the gold bracelet as a metalmind for himself, only when Wax said "I think it already is one" did he suddenly "see" the Investiture. When we see "unsealed" medallions in action that anybody can use, those are unkeyed nicrosilminds to grant a Metalborn power - whoever taps the nicrosilmind, temporarily gains the Investiture that represents the ability to burn or to tap a specific metal. This is combined with a metalmind that matches that power. That's how the "memory coins" work, they're medallions filled with an unkeyed aluminummind for F-copper, along with a ring of copper stored with the memory. And like any other unkeyed metalmind, you have to realize what it is before you can access it. To create the Bands of Mourning, then, for all the powers, seems to require a Full Feruchemist, of which there are not supposed to be any left after the Catacendre, or else someone spiked for all the Feruchemical powers. Using the Excisors, whatever they are, is limited to creating medallions storing 2, at most 3 powers in the same nicrosilmind, and simply wearing multiple medallions of different types conflict with each other. That's the RAFO bit we all puzzle over. Now if you HAVE Sazed around (plus other Keepers like Tindwyl) due to traveling back from Era 2 to meet up with Kelsier's crew, and can plan ahead to bring a goodly supply of aluminum and nicrosil, then yeah. You could educate Sazed as to their uses, and he could create a big, unsealed nicrosilmind that granted all sixteen Feruchemical powers (plus atium, haha.). Then hand it over to a Mistborn like Vin or Kelsier, who could then use their Allomancy in those metals to create metalminds they could then burn to Compound, and create Bands that included the sixteen Allomantic powers as well. ETA: That's one of my pet crackpot theories, about where is the Full Feruchemist that Kelsier needed to create the Bands? Either he got jacked up to Fullborn, which it seems like Harmony would not do; or a Full Feruchemist somehow did survive the Catacendre, who was willing to work with Kelsier, and who did not participate in the rebuilding of the world and went unnoticed by history. That also seems very unlikely, especially if that Feruchemist had been a Keeper. So my pet theory is, it's one of the First Generation of kandra, who unlike all subsequent generations had started out as a human Feruchemist, and was willing and able to help out - maybe in the Cognitive Realm where he appeared after dying like that obligator-turned-koloss had done that Kelsier talked to in Secret History.

"There were boats and things" in the CR leading to the Pits of Hathsin?? I know the Pits were supposed to be the main access point for worldhopping trade, but that seems rather incredible that one of the Lord Ruler's Biggest Secrets, the source of atium and where most of the mined stuff actually went, such that it was a one-way death sentence for prisoner with only very trusted obligators working there, never Inquisitors... Would also not draw his attention for off-world people arriving via the Pits. I have to say that I find the concept of clandestine worldhopping trade routes enabling a "hidden economy" and even a "Cosmere postal service of sorts" counterintuitive to how people actually behaved in the real world with respect to trade routes, which is to say, they would not really be kept secret for hundreds of years. Something from off-world gets noticed and/or popular, demand increases, and there will be someone looking to profit by supplying it... Before you know it, there would be chouta stands in Luthadel and a Coinshot/Pewterarm mercenary squad working for Breaths on Nalthis to help the Pahn Kahl Rebellion. It would make sense if the only worldhoppers were part of some tightly controlled group of People In The Know, like the Ghostbloods or the 17th Shard, but Brandon has mentioned that a lot of worldhoppers are just ordinary people and that Nalthis even has a kind of "customs border" in the CR, and in Oathbringer it seems like it's pretty routine for the spren to see humans around.

Really? While a kandra's memory will have holes from losing their spikes for a period of time, I would think Awakening Command based memory modification would be a suppression or transformation of memory rather than a destruction or loss of it. More like Shai's "retirement soulstamp" that would rewrite her Identity to one that did not remember ever being a Forger, plus a powerful fear of venturing too far from home (MaiPon) and a need to renew the stamp to keep that Identity in effect every day, except that with Awakening the Command would not need to be renewed. We really don't know what Awakening Commands can do to a living person or what it would require, much less a self-modification by a living Awakener, much less one who's a Returned in the bargain. Apparently Vasher knows, though. And he implies it's something he would do to Denth, not something he'd teach Denth to do to himself, yet might require his cooperation ("I can make you [forget]. I know the Commands... I will take it all from you, if you wish."). And that he could do it with the Breath available to him. Of course, "if you wish" might just be Vasher saying he wouldn't do it against Denth's will - even if he could - though if he could, might he not have chosen that option over killing him? Maybe he just didn't have enough Breath to do it, and had Denth agreed, would have had to beg leave to get some from a stash somewhere first? (Yeah, that wouldn't sound too suspicious.)

Ah, yes, that's what happened. Lucky break for Szeth, I guess. And maybe everyboday. What happens with a permanently unsheathed Nightblood lying around? Seems like a Bad Idea that maybe neither side wants. What would happen if a Fused were to pick it up?

Yeah, for him to make that promise to Denth that he could take away his evil memories - "I know the Commands" - and for a surprised Denth to believe he was sincere, that suggests that he must have discovered them after the Nightblood Collaboration. And for him to be sure of the promise, he must have tested or effected the Commands before. The deeper question would be if such a Command would require a control phrase that would reset/restore the memories, similar to the Lifeless Command. I would assume so.

I wonder if Szeth's inability to release Nightblood was because some part of him still views himself as "evil" or deserving of oblivion for all the murders he committed while Truthless. But then the "adhesion" effect extended to Lift as well when she started aiding Szeth in giving Investiture to Nightblood, and both were released when Dalinar overcharged all the gems on the entire battlefield with his I AM UNITY mini-Ascension. So maybe it's also a factor as to how "hungry" Nightblood is, however that mechanism works. I thought it was interesting that Szeth was able to scoop up the sheath from off the ground and then slam Nightblood into it as he walked up to stand at Dalinar's side after that. Not just because it seemed like Nightblood had actually been temporarily sated, but because the last we saw, a Fused version of an Edgedancer (using the Surge of Abrasion to be slick, anyway) had got around behind him, removed the sheath from his back, used it to block Nightblood when he swung it at him/her in a way that suggested foreknowledge, and then ran off with it as other opponents swarmed at Szeth to keep him busy. Why would that Fused then drop the sheath?

As far as works set in a late Cosmere timeframe (as opposed to being written/published last), the novella Sixth of the Dusk is implied to take place in or after "Mistborn 4: Metalborn In Space", because the Ones Above arrive to First of the Sun by spaceship. And he's mentioned elsewhere that some combination of Allomancy and Feruchemy will lead to the Cosmere's first FTL spacefaring (Cosmerenauts?).

So that water bowl was passed around for all the Mastrells to drink from. Kenton wasn't affected because he wasn't a Mastrell (yet), and judged to be too powerless to care about. OK. But the second time, in his one-on-one duel with Drile, how did Lord Mastrell Kenton not drink from the same ritual bowl as Drile? Or was the way that Elorin managed to poison just Drile different from how he did it at the sash ceremony? (I don't have the book with me so I can't go re-read to find out.) We haven't seen any Darkside magic yet, right? It can't be sand based, because they get no sunlight to Invest the sand, so it's interesting that Baon has such as massive latent affinity for it. "There's always another secret."