Hobbit

I'll mildly disagree with Ernei and Ethan and share my reader experience for a different perspective. I would expect either the section of the library/bookstore or the cover art of the story would have alerted me to the presence of supernatural elements. (The fact that you're submitting to this forum suggested that you would have supernatural elements in your story!) So for me, I was expecting it, looking for it... and everything seemed natural, normal, and I was like, where is it? Where is it? And then BAM there it was. It was actually a really satisfying moment for me. So I agree that supernatural elements need to be foreshadowed, but I think this could take other forms than being hinted at in your writing. That said, you could totally make sneaky writing hints without ruining the fake sense of "normalcy" that made the transformation pop so much. And as Ernei says, this is chapter 1 - if you had gone through an entire chapter 1 without mentioning your supernatural elements, that would have been a different story. I'll also add that part of the fun of the transformation was that I thought the characters were having a reality-breaking moment like I was, and it sound like that's not actually accurate, since they already know about superhumans. (It can still be fun even if they already know about superhumans though.) That's my perspective. Do with it what you will!

That is the way I said it in my head. I wonder if you can change out one or two letters to make it look less visually like "Racist." Rayst? Raiced? I don't think it's a huge deal. By the time I was done with your submission, I was used to the name. The new version of the sound effects + thoughts works well!

Great idea. I hadn't thought about that. It will be easy to add. Thanks for the comments - late is always better than never! Just finished incorporating the other suggestions. I added 700 words to the chapter... oof. For future reference, if anyone ever wants to give me comments about how to make things shorter, I'm all ears.

Ooo! I didn't know he had another one coming out. I've only read the first in the series, but it's one of my brother's favorites. Now I have a good Christmas present idea... It's never too early to start planning. Bummer about the motion sickness, too.

Hello M.Puddles! Congrats on your first submission! Overall, I enjoyed this story. Since you're giving us a scene from the middle, I gave you some benefit of the doubt when it came to background information. The paragraph from your email was certainly helpful, but there were still places were I didn't know what was going on - which I assume wouldn't be the case if I had started from the beginning, so I didn't really consider it a "problem" and I just kind of skimmed those parts. So, I'm not going to comment on that (except for spending this whole paragraph saying I'm not going to comment... erm, oops). I liked that it was action-packed, and I agree with rdpulfer that it's well-written. I also like the plot elements - the secret powers, the capture - and I'm very interested to learn what's going on with Raist. He seems to be hiding a lot - not just his powers. I'm wondering why, and what his motives are. I thought the different points of view were also well done. Nothing felt like "telling" to me, either, which is great. Reading your submission as a stand-alone piece, I was also concerned about the issues that kaisa brought up above. As a piece in the larger context of your novel, it could be that you've given Landon's daughter and wife a lot of dimensionality in other places. But I agree that it would be smart to emphasize Cella's character here, in Landon's capture scene. It would not only make Cella feel less like a plot device, it would up our sympathy for both Cella and Landon (kaisa may have already said this, I might have just missed it). I do think you did a good job of describing Landon's feelings and reactions as he sees his daughter in danger. You missed a ending quotation mark here - starting attacking everyone till you came in and set things right." On page 17, when they start talking about Lord Barryl, I was confused as to who was trying to say what. At first I thought Raynauld was questioning Raist about it, but then it sounded like Raynauld was starting to explain something, and I didn't think he knew anything about it. Finally, I caught a POV blocking issue here: Raist was looking at him when Raynauld looked up, and he wasn't sure... If Raynauld hadn't been looking up yet, how did he see everything that happened in the previous paragraph? Overall, this was very engaging. It sounds like a great story. I'd be interested to read it from the beginning with more context. ETA: I also think Raist's name looks a little too close to Racist...

Hello Blaine! Welcome to the group! I really liked your submission. It was exciting to read, and overall really well done. I'm definitely looking forward to reading more about Ben's situation and what it has to do with super scary bone-knife-monsters! Great job establishing lots of conflict right off the bat and giving us mysteries to wonder about! I'm relatively new here, so other, more experienced folk might have more to say, but my critiques are all small-level stuff. The only thing that nudged me out of the story as I was reading is that some of your sentences are a little clunky; the phrasing or word choice (or something) didn't feel natural to me, and I had to re-read the sentence to get it straight. Most of your writing is smooth enough for me to read quickly, so when I hit a clunky bit, it stood out more. Here are some of the sentences that made me pause: It was a good thing we were so quiet today; just where the cameras range ended, a man was standing there, quiet, hard to pick out of the changing parade of faces that usually passed by this hallway. (- There are just so many different things going on in this sentence that I had a hard time following it.) I wasted precious time tugging on the blade, and it threw me way off when it didn’t come away from him in my hand. ...his arm seeming more fine than broken in three places. The other thing I'll mention is that around the top of page 3, I started getting a little bit annoyed that I didn't know more about Ben's situation. It wasn't a large annoyance, just a little one. I was still interested enough to keep reading though. It might not be anything you want to change - I'm just giving you my reader reaction. Overall, this was really enjoyable and I'm excited to read the next bit! Great first submission! ETA: About submission format, other people can speak to this more than me (again), but I'll be curious to hear if some people prefer to get your submission in an attached word document. I view all the submissions in google docs anyway, so it didn't make a difference for me. And lastly, your submission definitely counts as having violence! Yay fight scenes!

Hello @Robinski and @AuthorityHellas16. Thanks a lot for your comments. I'm really encouraged that you both found this submission better! I'll respond to a few of your comments but as usual, and as with @Ernei and @kaisa, each and every one was helpful. Success! Thanks! Kaisa noted this too. I'll slim it. Yay! Good to know which way to adjust. I'll be happy to oblige. Again, it's good to know I've crossed the line a little here so I can dial it back. Woo! Thanks! Goal achieved. Yes, it appears this isn't coming across. I think part of the issue is that I've overcorrected from my last version into "anvilicious" territory, as AH16 said. The other problem is that I'm just not explaining well. I think I can correct this in the next draft, but since I'm not planning on submitting another draft of Chapter 1, and since I've adjusted this from what was true in my previous drafts, I'll just spell it out here: Aurem wants to talk to the Elder so badly because he and the Elder are actually really good friends. Aurem doesn't understand what's going on, he doesn't understand how someone could do things like this - he's basically losing his sense of innocence and safety, and he knows that the Elder can help him process these things in a way that his friends his own age can't. Hearing a piece of news that might actually be important to the Circle's decision is a convenient way for him to justify to himself why he should go try to see the Elder now, rather than waiting until things have calmed down. Looking back, I can see that I didn't really make that clear at all... But there you have it. That's the goal, eventually. Woo! This is very encouraging. Just be warned that my first submissions of chapters have the potential to be every bit as awful as before... despite my best efforts! Hahaha, alright, dialing it back a few notches. Noted. I agree. His personality is all in his head right now. Good point. I'll have to make that less contrived. And thanks for all the comments about how to smooth out the dialogue. I really like writing (and reading) dialogue, so it's important to me that the dialogue in my stories is strong. And thanks for telling me where it's working - it's equally important for calibration purposes that I know when I'm getting it right! Again, thanks for everything!

I think a lot of people have this problem with Elantris. I definitely found some POV's much more interesting than others when I read it. But I still enjoyed it in the end.

Seasickness? Seasickness put me off of cold pizza for a while...

I liked the perspectives on your "gee-whiz" factor. I liked the developer's perspective and how it differed from the perspective of the public. As someone married to a research programmer, it felt very realistic - what "lay" people think is cool can be more of a misunderstanding than anything! I also agree that Sister Giulia's perspective was the most unique, immersive, and touching. In my commenting document I highlighted the last line and commented little hearts. <3 <3 I couldn't tell exactly what was happening in your dialogue exchange, but I'll lay out my thoughts so you can see how far I got. I got that Toni and/or his company was giving the Groombridge government money, and that Grimes was making sure that money got used in ways that benefitted Toni. I also picked up that Grimes doesn't really want to be under Toni's thumb anymore, and is trying to keep Toni from giving him any more orders or bribing him so he can keep out of Toni's debt. Grimes wants to be done with it, whatever 'it' is. But he doesn't want to offend Toni, since Toni obviously has a lot of control over Grimes. That's all I got! I agree with Ernei that the third person still felt omniscient-ish to me. But that might be the style of story you're writing, so it's not necessarily a problem. Very cool! Excited to read more, as always.

Yay! I love description but I'm always cutting it because I think people don't like it (and I have a tendency to go purple). I will not take this as license to go purple, but I will definitely add description. Good idea. This would definitely help. It sounds like Kaltus is coming off too negatively. I need to shift Kaltus's first impressions. Kaisa mentioned this too. I was worried about that, so thanks for mentioning it. I'll try to smooth things out a bit. More description! This is definitely a weakness of this setup over my previous Chapter 1. Yay! Growth = success. This is a very helpful distinction. I knew I needed to get the readers more invested, but I focused all my attention on having the reader getting to know the characters instead of also setting up stakes and expectations in the world. Thanks for pointing this out. Oops, this was just me trying to make the phrase long enough not to feel jarring in the list. It's not supposed to imply this. Females come of age too, at the same age as the males. I'm trying to dial back the misogyny in this world. This is fantasy, right? I don't have to be historically accurate... Thanks for the feedback! I get so many more good ideas when I get other people's eyes on my writing. So much understanding!

I felt the same way about the imagery. But I was interested in the part of the flashback where Aetna is helping Scrios - this gives me an insight into their past relationship, which is cool. I don't think you're focusing too much on the characters. At this point in the story I want to understand Aetna better, and that's exactly what this chapter aims to do. This version of your chapter doesn't yet get me to the understanding that I crave, though. I'm not sure exactly why, but here's some ideas and/or impressions. I don't feel like I've learned anything very new about Aetna from the conversation. We learn that she's too scared to face her demons, that she thinks she'll be useless with fear as soon as she starts facing them, and that she's talked to lots of people about her condition. I'm left feeling like I learned more facts but I didn't get any more insight. I also expect Scrios and Aetna to have a deeper relationship than I'm feeling here. Part of the fun of these kinds of exchanges is getting to see how well the two characters know each other. It sounds like from Scrios's frustration that they've had this kind of conversation many times. How do you show this in writing? I'm not sure! I don't know that I do it all that well myself. Maybe other people can weigh in here. Finally, at times Aetna's brusqueness comes off as immaturity, especially the "So I had to do some stuff..." line. She kind of reminds me of Korra from the Avatar 2 series. I think the chapter is on the right track, it just needs some polishing and character work. It's a nice change of pace and scene from the battlefield.

Ooo, I do like mines. Hmmm, I think this could work well, actually. I'm not particularly attached to prison, I just forgot to come up with something better. Mines are way better! @Ernei, it seemed like the setup of the old Chapter 1 worked better for you in a lot of ways. So, question for you - would you be interested in reading a beefed up version of the old Chapter 1? I actually revamped it before deciding to try starting somewhere totally different, and I'd be curious about your reaction to it. I can send you a private email if you're interested. If not, no worries - depending on the rest of the comments, I could always submit it next week. (Though I promise not to flood the forums with endless Chapter 1's!)

I'd love to do something like this! @Robinski, what was your process?

Hello everyone, I think this version is a lot better than the last one I submitted (I hope you agree)! Last time, people commented that the sensitive material wasn't handled very sensitively, that the characters were hard to get a feel for, and that the situation itself just wasn't that interesting. I've tried to correct for these things by jumping back in time a few weeks and starting at a slightly different place in the story where the characters get a chance to show themselves off more, the action is more exciting (hopefully), and the upsetting events more immediate so the character reactions can be more on par with the reader. All comments are helpful, as usual. I'm particularly interested in if I succeeded in my above goals. I'd also appreciate suggestions on what I can do with the first section of the chapter to be more tonally consistent with the part that comes after - my husband said the first part was too "Thomas Kinkade" and it made what happens next feel jarring. If it's jarring in a good way, then great, but I of course don't want it to be jarring in a bad way. Thanks for reading!

I'm having trouble with this in the Last Light of the Sun by Guy Gavriel Kay. It's a beautiful book, and his writing is gorgeous, but I've lost track of how many different story threads he's introduced. There were new ones still coming at 40% of the way through. Intellectually it's interesting, but in terms of hooking me, I keep losing my sense of investment. I've had it for several weeks now and I'm still only half way done. This series got my husband and I through mono during our first year of marriage. I love it. I totally agree about keeping it fresh with the setting changes. But what I really loved were how strong the characters were. Aang is strong and active while still maintaining his innocence, and Zuko's character journey is so compelling... I think everybody roots hard for him all the way through. And everyone loves Uncle Iro because his love is so unconditional and unrelenting. Aaaah love love love! I wonder if seasons two and three were a conscious change on the part of the writers when they realized their audience was more than just young children. The first season felt like the after-school shows I'd watch as a kid. Each one was kind of interesting in itself, but the overall plot was very loose. I'm glad you persevered - the other seasons are so worth it! I still watch this whenever I'm sick. Great thread idea!

You are so cool. I got to do something cool this weekend. I went to the National Book Festival in DC! I went to panels and saw Shannon Hale, Elizabeth Hand, Hannah Pittard, Patrick Ness, and Katherine Patterson. And I got two books signed!

Thank goodness! I was getting worried that I would have to submit by myself. @Robinski and @Ernei, I actually had a similar experience. I was in the middle of editing my chapter 1 when Robisnki posted his feedback, and I was like, "Oh, I see now - it's time for something completely different!" In my case this meant starting in a different place, since I'm too attached to my tropey story to drop it at this point (but I'm planning on a break to try something else during NaNoWriMo!). You'll see the results tomorrow!

I liked Chapter three. I like the way the stakes keep getting higher. I don't have any "big" critiques for this section, just small stuff. I loved the first two paragraphs of Elias being in his dream. I think he stays in there for too long, though. As kaisa said above, we lose too much of the tension. I was a little confused about what was happening as Ellis comes out of his dream. I think it just needs a tiny bit more to clarify that Sofia stabbed the snake while Ellis was 'out.' If you changed "the thorn lance had been stuffed" to "Sophia had stuffed her thorn lance," that might be all it needs. When Ellis and Sofia start talking, they seem casual. Then Ellis asks "Who's taking the children?" and the seriousness of his question caught me off guard. Because of his tone before, it seems like he doesn't care that much about who's taking the children, but I don't think that's actually the case. "The pale man tilted his head over..." That movement sounds so creepy. Nice line. The interludes I won't give in-line suggestions on, since they're more of an exercise (I think - right?), but I definitely thought the characters were consistent throughout, as was the tone. I like the situations you show Ellis and Sofia in as children - they do a good job showing who they are. Sofia seems clearer to me - she wants to look cool and be awesome, and she wants her twin brother to be her minion. And it's kind of adorable. You've done a good job translating her characteristics into adulthood, as well. She still the lead sibling between her and her brother but the ways she 'manipulates' (I don't mean this in a bad way) him are a lot more subtle. I think you could push Ellis's development deeper. I'm still not sure what he actually wants. He's being overshadowed by his sister, and that can hide a lot of someone's personality, but since we're from his POV I think you have an opportunity to show us hints of the kind of person he would be without his sister to direct him. He's already a good character, I just still have some questions about him. Hope that helps! Nicely done!

I'd like to submit on the 26th. It will be a chapter that replaces my old chapter 1.

Hello Coop! I didn't enjoy these chapters as much as I have enjoyed Sira's chapters in the past. I think it might just be a polishing issue - I didn't get as much of a sense of Sira's silly, imaginative playfulness, and I got confused with the blocking in places. But I liked the trajectory of the chapters. The whole time she was on the clouds, I was wondering where she was floating off to - and it turned out she floated all the way into town! More specifics: It also gripped easily against her glove. This was confusing to me. I'm not a huge fan of her being "the girl" instead of "she" - it makes the whole thing sound like we're out of her viewpoint. For the first time in her new experience in the sky, Sira was filled with exhilaration. I got the impression that her previous experiences were exhilarating, so I'm not quite buying this line. ...just as a better idea struck... ...The idea that had come too late was to fire upon a cloud... I like the idea of this, but it played out in a way that left me confused. Again, it's really just a word-smithing edit. On page six we're getting some tension, and I think it would benefit the story to get here sooner. Will the cloud trap Sira if it touches the triangulator? And then especially, will she be able to get above the cloud to solidify it in time? This really upped the interest for me. hyperextension of her knee Is this a thing that happens a lot? I don't think I've ever worried about it. ...costume was probably important to her and that Sira would want to be buried in it. I love this line. Such good adolescent reasoning. ...unsteady as a new doe. Maybe a new fawn, instead? I also thought the end felt more unsympathetic than I wanted it to. Does she know she's being unreasonable? Because sometimes that can make someone more angry at someone else, rather than less. Just an idea for another angle on her feelings. Feel free to take it or leave it. My last thought is that I feel like I didn't learn anything new about the suit or the man in red - I would have liked a little morsel about where they came from or who this guy is, and I was a little sad to not get one. Oh well... I guess I'll just have to wait until your next submission!

No worries @Robinski for being late. It's still helpful! And I'll just also take a moment to thank @rdpulfer and @Mandamon for their comments as well. I'm trying to re-write this chapter at the moment, so we'll see how many issues I manage to take care of. Yeah... I studied abroad in Ireland so I know I'm kind of cheating with this name. If I ever get this to a place where it's publishable, I'll probably have to change it. But for now I like it! Thanks again everyone!

I agree - this chapter was definitely more engaging than the previous version. I felt the improvement especially in the dialogue scenes before the battle started. Before they felt slow, but this time they felt snappy and exciting. We still get a window into Aetna's relationships with Eleanor and Marcus, but the tension built throughout. Nicely done! The battle felt more real as well, and I was way more into it - the stakes were clearer, there were more consequences, and Aetna's emotional reactions felt more natural. I still feel like it was a little long, but I think the parts that feel slow are the parts where you are describing action in a way that seems omniscient and less from Aetna's viewpoint. If you could tighten her viewpoint in those sections, I think it would improve. (It's already more in her viewpoint than it was in the first version - but I want more!!) Then again, other readers might really like the detailed battle descriptions for their own sake, so it depends on what you're going for. A just a few in-line suggestions: She turned and saw Eleanor holding Peacemaker in its sling and the sleeveless, white robe... This line confused me. At first I thought Eleanor was wearing the white robe and that Eleanor was a field martial. ...infect their victims with the mutating disease known as the Rot I think this line would be stronger if you removed the "mutating disease" line and told us about that later. Right now it feels jarring, too much like a tell. I'm going to expand on kaisa's point about wanting Aenta to leave forever - for me, I think this would feel contrived here, given what we know about her personality. My read on the "it's just something I've got to do, Ellie" line is that Aetna is using physical fights to try to fight her demons (even though battles aggravate her PTSD), and if she gives up fighting forever, it would be like giving up on conquering her PTSD. From my reader perspective, I would need more than two chapters of events, and more than two civilian deaths, to be convinced that Aetna would want to leave forever. Though I do agree that her trying to leave forever would be really interesting at a some point in the story. Maybe an "I don't know how long I'll need" would be more satisfying than her giving Marcus an actual length of time? Nice job punching up this chapter!! Woo for editing and making things more awesome! ETA: Whoops, Ernei just posted and it reminded me I forgot to talk about Vulcan. I got confused when his army joined the battle - it wasn't clear to me that these weren't Aetna's own forces until later. Other than that, I like him, and he seems like an intriguing character - like Ernei says, I'm curious why he doesn't want to go back to the city. The whole thing felt a little Deus ex Machina, but I think that's okay given that you're showing how Aenta needs rescue even though she doesn't want it.

Hello cadebengert! Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first submission! I think the biggest strength of your piece is the main character. The first chapter was really good, and it effectively got me into the character's head. It was also very dark, very intense, which of course is a good thing, since I'm assuming that's the tone you were going for. Here are some story structure concerns: I agree with Ernei that chapters 2-5 didn't fit the tone of the first one. I appreciated having a happier scene when we meet the MC's best friend in chapter 2, since I needed a mental break from all the tension of chapter 1, but after that I was getting confused about what kind of story you were writing. I think readers will expect a grittier, darker story from your first chapter, but your next few chapters don't go back to that. My other biggest critique is that the chapters could use more of a through-plot. I feel like we're spending a lot of time getting to know the characters without any main plot to up the tension for us. My guess, from chapter 5, is that the main plot is going to involve Tyler and Brent figuring out how to fight crime with their super powers while Tyler starts learning how to manage his depression. Is this right? As we get closer to this as readers, we still need conflict to carry us along. You've introduced a lot of potential for conflict, with the bully, the math teacher, and Tyler's depression, but none of it turns into an ongoing conflict that would raise the tension for us. And I know this is really hard to do with a depressed character, since some of the effects of depression are not being able to motivate yourself to do things and having a lack of desire for anything, and a lot of what drives plot is the main character doing things and wanting things. A few other things that are smaller surface-level edits: Be careful of telling us too much (like telling us all of Brent's backstory with Tyler, or the paragraph that starts with "To the casual passer-by..."). After the first chapter, where you did such a good job letting us see Tyler's depression, you don't need to remind us quite as often of how depressed he is in the future. And the pieces of backstory are more fun to read about when they get worked in slowly, rather than all at once in a paragraph. At the beginning of junior high (12 years old-ish for us in the states, not sure if that's where your characters are), the average boy weighs 90 pounds. So saying that Brent is really small in junior high and then giving his weight at 100 pounds threw me off. (https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l021.pdf) Ernei already caught the present tense slips. I think sometimes you were trying to write these as thoughts, but maybe if they're direct thoughts from Tyler, put them in italics? I think there are different schools of "thought" on this though (hahaha see what I did there?). Metahumans is what they call them in the Flash TV show... which I'm binge watching right now. I'm not sure if that's a problem for you, but when I read "metahumans" I immediately wondered if you were trying to make a connection to the TV show. I liked the cone of vision insight about teachers. I'll just add that not only do teachers have a cone of vision, but they often look at one side of the room more than the other. I taught for a few years, and I unconsciously favored looking to the right side of the class over the left. It's partly because I'm writing on the board with my right hand, so I turn to the left and end up looking at the right side (my right not the students') of the classroom first. Just a thought for more flavoring. Oh, and I'll just tag @Ernei and mention that people-watching is a specific phrase that's referencing making a hobby or an activity out of watching people. Sometimes it's hyphenated but I've also seen it as just "people watching." You've got a strong main character and an interesting world. Plot fleshing-out would make it better!

I had a similar read to kaisa - I liked the chapter, but it lacked tension. I mostly enjoyed reading for interest - interest at seeing the culture, the temple, the rituals, and then at discovering more about the priestess's goals and about the magic Lasila is discovering. But more tension would make the chapter a lot stronger. I agree that the beginning section went on a little long. You mention that Lasila is irked about missing work in the first paragraph, but I didn't feel that carry throughout her perspective the chapter (not sure if you wanted it to or not). I didn't pick up that this was significant when I was reading. More emphasis here would be helpful in some form. Kaisa and Ernei hit on the line by lines that I caught, so I'll just leave it at that. Overall, interesting, but I think you can kick it up a notch!