Hobbit

So, it looks like I won't be able to do NaNo after all this year. Not only is there the traveling issue, but I've had several health issues crop up. Including my chicken pecking me in the eye. It seems like all will be well--it's been 48 hours and my sight is almost back to normal--but it did put everything in (blurry) perspective. I'm not going to push myself this time around. But I'll be cheering you all on from the sidelines!

Yay! I may be joining you all in Nano-ing. I really, really don't have time (will be traveling for at least ten days of November) but I want to do it anyway!!!

Wow! That sounds really hard to write! Congrats! This is definitely not a 100% commitment, but... ___ WorldCon 2018 San Jose, California_X_ WorldCon 2019 Dublin ___ Both, cause why not?

Yay!!! Very exciting!!! Which anthology is it again?

Can I just say that I would LOVE to go to Dublin? Because that's where I studied abroad! And it's awesome!! So that would be my dream.

Goodness gracious. @kais, congrats on all the publishing news!! Very exciting! Also thank you for starting a new lounge. And @Silk, congrats on your upcoming presentations and performances! It sounds exhausting but very exciting. I'm glad I checked back here because I've also been gone a while. I've been working on my first attempt at a beta read on someone else's whole novel, plus helping a friend start a program for young writers. Plus, maybe playing the new Zelda game... a little bit... just a little... must... not... play... right... now... ahhhh...

Like @Robinski, I've generally been at a loss as to what to say. But I do regret not saying anything, and so here I go, in the interests of trying to help. I do think that the issue here, while it does play out in politics, is not a political issue at its core. It's an issue of respect. I think we should be clear: respecting people and treating people with kindness is not a political action. It is simply a human one. As we all have seen, these kinds of heated discussions pop up in the critique threads as much as they do in the Lounge. That's because these issues, ranging from the use of pronouns to racism to how to respond to evil, do relate to our writing. They should relate to our writing. We write to reflect on and make sense of the world, and to entertain people in the meantime. I know these discussions won't go away (at least I hope they won't go away) if we just all agree to keep our discussion on this forum "non-political" or "focused on writing." I want my writing to reflect true human existence, and I want it to do so in a way that respects everyone. And I don't want anyone to hesitate to call me out, when I go wrong, in the interest of being non-political. Letting other people read our writing, especially our developing writing, is an act of trust. And it's really sad to see people who trust each other one moment, hurt each other the next. I tend to believe the best of everyone (sometimes naively), and I do believe, even though I'm probably wrong, that these discussions go south by accident (at least at first). One person says something in ignorance of its implications. Another person is hurt. I really don't think anyone on this forum is here because they like hurting people. But it does make me sad, when someone knows they've hurt someone else, that I don't always see an apology or an effort to restore trust and respect. I do want to say that if anyone ever gets into a discussion and is worried that they're going to respond in a way that makes things worse, feel free to PM me with questions, or a draft of your response, or just to vent. I certainly don't have all the answers, and I won't try to speak for anyone I'm not, but I'm generally more emotionally removed from these discussions, and I'd like to take the burden off of the people who are most emotionally affected and drained. (There are issues that I'm too emotional about to discuss reasonably -- but they've never come up here...) This forum is an amazing resource for us. I love the feedback I get here on my writing. I love being able to talk with and work with other writers in our various stages of career. I love the diversity of styles and of ideas that I get to see and learn about. Basically, I just want to say: I love you all. Even when we fight. P.S. Thank you @Chaos for your omniscient presence and your work here.

Alright, here I go, changing the subject: I got CHICKS today! They are cute and fluffy and they cheep a lot, and my cat hasn't tried to eat them yet! They like to peck everything, including their own feet and each others' eyes. Also, they literally make a squelching sound when they poop. I'm super in love. If chickens start to appear in a lot of my stories in the future, well... you know what's happening.

Looks like the editor was fired from Tor? Thank you, Tor!

Putting the semantic confusion about context vs connotation aside... This one? My husband is quoted in it! He's talking about the article (which hasn't gone through peer review yet - computer science is different that way) in which researchers describe an classifier they've made, using off-the-shelf algorithms, to identify criminals by their facial features. The authors, when contacted, seemed completely unaware that they might have found a pattern in criminals' facial features because they trained their classifier on real world data, which may be (read: is) based on judges' unconscious biases. In fact, the fact that their classifier did find a pattern in criminals' faces is evidence that judges have unconscious biases. This same research group did a study where they wrote a classifier to identify personality traits of "attractive Chinese females" based on their facial features. Here's a quote from the first version of their abstract: "our empirical evidences point to the possibility of teaching computer vision and machine learning algorithms, using example face images, to predict personality traits and behavioral predisposition." Their data sets were based on keyword searches on Baidu, and the data was sifted by male grad students. And... their data sets were labeled S+ and S-. So much is wrong here. Luckily, in the updated version of their paper, they recognize their classifier is about perceived, and not actual, personality traits: "Our empirical evidences point to the possibility of training machine learning algorithms, using example face images characterized by internet users, to predict perceptions of personality traits and demeanors." I hope my above examples demonstrate that bias in computer-generated classifiers is already a problem. And fixing it is actually not simple AT ALL. First of all, not all programmers are even trying to counteract this, even though any classifier trained on human-generated data is going to reflect our biases. But second of all, counteracting those biases is really hard. I'm not sure what you mean by reevaluating everything from scratch. Coming up with a clean data set isn't possible, so you have to counteract biases in the programs you have. But how are you going to evaluate your data? How are you going to define fairness? My husband really likes the work of Sendhil Mullainathan, a Harvard professor who's interested in this and just starting to work on it. He won the Genius Award, so you know he's smart. So, simple? No, unfortunately not.

Aww, thanks everyone! You all are the best. I can definitely relate to this. I need to mentally put some projects aside so I can focus on other, new things. WOW! That's a lot! Do you do edits on all that for each other too, or is it mostly an accountability thing? So far I've only been giving old stuff to my writing groups. Maybe I need to start submitting new stuff so I have to keep writing it! I can really relate to this, too. I do prefer the laptop for most things, but my to-do lists MUST be on paper or else my brain doesn't feel any urge to do anything. Alrighty! Let's do it!

Fair. I seem to be getting too caught up in the "wanting to write" instead of the "wanting to write about something awesome." But it's such a good feeling. I outlined my entire NaNoWriMo novel and it was very... comforting? But not as exciting as discovery writing. And the thing motivating me there was that little bar graph, not my intrinsic love of the process. I should have been a bit clearer - I have several finished drafts that have been through various amounts of editing. I keep thinking, "I really need to polish these so I can submit them somewhere," but what ends up happening is I'm not good enough at editing to fix all the problems I see, and I end up in a perfectionist spiral between Must Fix This and Can't Fix It Right. Hehe, calling my bluff. I'm thinking about it. But it's not perfect!!! (Sorry, is my perfectionism showing again?) Thanks Robinski! I will "now go write!"

Hello all, Just wanted to hop over here and let you know that I'm taking a little break from commenting here in favor of trying to make myself DO WRITING rather than just be like, "Oh, I edited someone's work today... that counts as writing, right??" I'm hoping to come back when I get into a better writing routine, which has been thrown off by the start of a new job (selling baked goods at a bakery!) and some frequent traveling, topped off with a new germ pool. While I'm here, though, anyone have any thoughts about how to motivate yourself to keep writing new things? Especially when you have lots of your own projects that you could edit to death?

Haha don't you love it when you look back and realize you were brilliant? Very true, haha. And you're very welcome. Glad I could help!

Hello! Hopefully some late comments will still be helpful. This chapter didn’t grab me. It might be because it felt too familiar — a boy being trained by a master fighter — but I don’t mind that trope so much in and of itself. I think I like stories best when they have a character element, and Pet’s relationship with his uncle didn’t have enough meat to grab me, yet. Right now it all seems very professional, very student-teacher, and since they’re related, I’d expect a bit more. But the other commenters noted some other reasons that the chapter lacks the "grabbiness" you might want. Some specifics: The opening paragraph confused me as well. I see from the comments that you were trying to describe someone getting swung around by their foot. I suppose part of my confusion was that I'm not sure how that would come about -- it seems like the uncle would only be doing it to show off to the kid, not because it would actually make sense in a fight. I think it would be really hard to swing a 12 year old around by his foot! Then again, maybe the uncle is showing off. His uncle hoisted Petro to his feet effortlessly, and Petro grunted as he came down hard. Not sure what happened -- did his uncle drop him? I felt the same way. “Are you certain they only have the one girl? It would be tragic to go in there thinking they only had one.” What is this about? Did I miss something? Was there a kidnapping? And why would it be tragic to just save one girl? "Abem opened his mouth, but the old soldier waved his hand at him and said," The conversation gets repetitive by the end. Maybe it's not un-realistic to be repetitive, but it makes for slow reading. The two guards start to blend together a bit for me. “He’s going to be a heck of a Paladar someday, eh Abem?” “I have to admit, Gandar. I can see why the Paladar wanted his help.” Love this part. After section break -- so we're skipping forward in time a bit? I think you could make this clearer at the beginning of the paragraph, rather than the end. the smooth clay skin of the signal stones his uncle had left him was still there. We're a little late in the chapter for us to have not known about this before, I think. That's all I got! You've got a good start, it could just use some punching up in places.

Interesting. I gave the chapter another glance and I found it -- there's a whole separate district for the queer community. I noticed that something was going on there, but I just assumed you were saying that the current fashion for all men was to wear tight, brightly colored clothes. I should have been cued in since the MC suddenly stopped being worried. I like it too. It definitely adds to the realism. I recently listened to a podcast about how Subaru did a series of ads in the early 2000's specifically selling to the lesbian community, but in such a way that straight people had no idea.

Only if you want to. It's your story! But I'm glad if my comments are helpful.

Aha well... I guess not? Well, I got that it's odd for someone to be trying to hide their gender, since the MC is getting a lot of stares.

Well... honestly, I think you should disguise it a little more if you want it to stay. To me it feels awkward. As I read it I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point about the Greeks, or if you're just name-cheating. But of course, it's your story! If no one else notices, then I suppose you're good (and more people need to read the Iliad.)

I remembered three, and it's working for me! This chapter was very good! A few sentence fragments that threw me off, but not long enough for me to tag them. I think Quirk’s reaction is pretty believable, as is Moth’s. I enjoyed the chapter, and I’m curious what will happen going forward. I’m a little concerned, in my reader brain, that all the other settings and characters we’ve gotten to know (the other nuns, the mysterious attractive lady, the cop) won’t have much of a role from here on out, if they just leave world. So I hope they have to stick around for some reason. I just don’t feel ready to leave. But maybe that’s part of the point. I do have trouble believing that Moth had magic saliva proteins inserted into her DNA when she was a zygote, but hey, maybe it’s standard in mob families. Oh, wait, we have CRISPR and can modify anyone's genes whenever we want now... But it still seems convenient for her to have this set up before Toni's demise begins. I also think Quirk would need to absorb more of the antidote than could be absorbed through he back of one’s hand from one wet finger’s worth of spit. Maybe if she spit on his hand and he smeared the spit behind his bottom lip or something. Which I realize would be super weird, so maybe that’s why you didn’t go that route… There are actually a lot of very weird places you could go with this. Ahhh... ahem. Moving right along. @aeromancer mentioned trying a virus, but viruses mutate SO easily that I'd be pretty worried about that route. Seven years is plenty of time for that virus to skirt around antibodies (which would be too big to be absorbed through the skin anyway) or any other control, really. Did you say this was a one-time thing? As in, Quirk isn't in danger any more after this chapter? I actually was so engrossed that I didn't take the time to write any specific comments. So nice job!

I found the tension in this scene had more to do with how worried Sor is about whether the guards are a threat. They don't come off as a threat to me, the reader, but the fact that Sor thinks they are gives the scene tension. I like the fact that you don't have to use pronouns for Sor in the narrative. I think it gives the reader another way to get into to Sor's mindset. Alright, my initial reactions to the chapter: Hm. I liked this chapter. However, Sor’s fatigue and pain ended up feeling like a bit of a cop-out for more complex feelings when zie meets Mag. It just felt a little less impactful than I wanted it to, given all the foreshadowing you did about their meeting. I’m glad Sor’s getting some allies, though. I thought the Queensguard came off well -- knowledgeable, competent, and a nice contrast from the pretenders in chapter 1. (I see now that @aeromancer had some issues here -- I didn't get his impression off the bat, but I can see his point with their lack of knowledge about alchemy.) Your setting continues to be rich, and I get a good sense for each place Sor goes through. I like the constant noticing of plants and other growths — it makes me very happy. Just a few specifics: Argomemnon Hahahaaaa what's Agamemnon doing here? Sounds like agro-memnon? Agricultural Agamemonon? Oooh, or are you going for Jason and the Argonauts meets Trojan War? (This was really funny, but it did throw me out of the narrative.) “The cord,” I gasped. Seems a bit out of place; I’m not sure why Sor says it until I read the next sentence. Maybe switch their places? My shoulder was too badly bruised and the resulting pain almost sent me to my knees. This seems a little extreme? Though I haven’t taken a fall on my shoulder on stone recently. I think I'm just getting fatigued of Sor being the victim -- which might be part of your point. Not sure. She laid the damp leather across my torso and pulled the laces tightly together, Where exactly is this sitting? Lower ribs? Above the breasts? I can’t picture it, especially with Sor trying to hide breasts, not showcase them.

Hello! Diving right in: Nice. Things seem pretty bad for the MC right now. I’m hoping zie catches an edge soon, because it’s going to get too depressing and hopeless if that doesn’t happen. I had a few moments of confusion, but otherwise it read smoothly and kept my interest. I’m curious about zir title - the Woodcutter’s Daughter - and I’m hoping we learn a bit more about why that’s the MC’s title if the MC doesn’t consider themselves as female. I’d also appreciate a few more clues about how this world thinks about trans/non-gendered people, either in this chapter, or soon. You mentioned something in one of your previous post comments, but I don’t think I’ve gotten enough clues from the text to be sure about where the culture lands on this. After reading the above comments, I realized my confusion is partly that I'm not sure if the MC thinks of themselves as male, or just non-gendered. It's not a problem as I read -- just a character mystery that I'm waiting to find out more about. Specifics: he simply handed me a small blue bucket Haha All of Thuja knew me, and half of them had been at my door in the past month with outlandish requests for potions and spells and other witch nonsense. Does this mean we’re several weeks past chapter 1? It’s not super clear. There was visible blood on my shirt, Never mind, we're not several weeks ahead. event Mother would have celebrated MC has a very interesting mother. "You’re lucky I noticed." Noticed what? Zir breasts, the blood on her clothes, or the fact that ze's not in a guild? I knew the look that would be on her face, and after the events of the last day, I didn’t want to add tears Slightly confused by the wording here. And that took me to the end of the chapter. The second half was definitely smoother than the first. I see from the comments you've done some cleanup already. On to the next chapter...

I had a plane ride to catch up on some subs, so here's my catching up #2! Overall: I’m getting to know Sam and Cyr better, but I still have questions about Sam’s motivation to get home, and where his anxiety is stemming from (see below). Kir’s motivation is unclear to me as well. I think I’m missing something about how apprentices work in this society. She resigns herself to having an apprentice so quickly for someone who hasn’t had one before. I definitely learned more about the nether and the home worlds. Not sure I understand the nether, but I think that’s where I’m supposed to be. As I go: At least she hadn’t been fool enough to ask Ori over the night before. That would have led places she wasn’t ready to go yet, This seems kind of random. I like the idea, but it comes out of the blue. of the head of house apartment Confusing The girl’s head was held high, Human, then? “My brother and I were recently orphaned.” The girl finally spoke, her voice on the knife edge between control and grief This seems a little… convenient. I’m suspicious something else is going on here. Bottom of page 4: This entire scenario feels a little off to me. It seems odd that Ril could be forced to take an apprentice this easily. Can’t she bundle the girl off to “safety training” or “paperwork” or some other place holding thing that all apprentices have to do, while she processes and tries to fight it? Or can she just say “go settle into your rooms, we’re meeting at noon.” I don’t know why Ril invites her in and gives her breakfast. Did she always secretly want an apprentice? Is she lonely? “He and I can help each other learn,” the girl said. “We have never been apart before. We are very close.” I’m not getting a good sense from this girl. I keep thinking something’s off, as if she’s faking it. Half of me is wondering if she’s a spy from the fairy councilor. Majus Cyrysi had volunteered the help of some sort of magical contraption, in the basement of the House of Communication. This seems like a big deal for Sam -- they’re finding a way home! Right now it seems like an afterthought. (After reading the comments above, it seems like I'm the only one fixated on this. Hmm.) like ice cubes stacked together without end. "End" is repeated here. The Kirian spared him a glance, seeming disappointed. Maybe Sam was supposed to be asking questions. I like this - Sam is getting a feeling for Kir’s personality The panic attack sounds good to me. I’ve never had a panic attack, but it feels authentic. Sam still wore the same set of clothes, because he hadn’t gone out. Does he even have other clothes? He was stronger than that. “I want to get home.” This sounds whiny. He knows Cyr is doing everything he can. “Before I start to forget it.” Sam hasn’t worried about this before, so I’m not sure why he says it now. I’m wondering why he isn’t expecting his home to be totally ruined by the cold, though. Getting back home is one thing, but why does he want to go back? Because it’s comfortable to him? Not anymore, it’s not, if it's still freezing. Ending thoughts: so maybe I'm more fixated on this "getting home" thing than I should be. Maybe it's because I don't understand it. It makes sense to me that Sam would want to get home because he's worried about his home, and potentially wants to save it, or figure out what's going on, etc. Or because it's intrinsically attractive to him as a place of safety, despite him knowing it might still be really dangerous. I suppose I'm putting myself in Sam's shoes and thinking: If this were me, I would be VERY worried about Earth. I would be asking the Majus what he thinks was happening there, what "drains" are usually like, how long they last, how big they are, and what the prospects are for all the people there. Not just how to get back. I keep feeling like Sam's thoughts are just in a different place from what I would expect, and maybe the answer to that is just: Sam is not me. Maybe I just have to get over myself! I do expect that Sam will try to make a new place of safety for himself in this world, maybe in the Majus's apartments or something. Maybe the Majus himself will become representative of safety for Sam. I'm curious to see how his anxiety plays out through the rest of the story. Also, I think your new timeline sounds great. I'm looking forward to the next chapter!

Here I go, catching up on my late posts. Hopefully you still find this helpful. So I got this much from your ending. Some of your other details didn't come through, but it was pretty clear (to me) that the girl asking for the legend was actually the one in the legend itself. Overall, I thought this is a fun piece. You have a much stronger voice here than I remember from your previous submissions, so nice job. I like the magic of the shaman being one with the mountain — it was engaging and interesting, a sort of more “natural” magic. Here are my main suggestions: First, focus the plot and give it more of an arc. From the way you set things up at the beginning, I was expecting Ari’s quest to find Jack to last a lot longer. Then she and her brother have a brief fight with mercenaries that doesn’t even seem like a challenge, and at the end, they find out Jack and his apprentice are probably dead. There’s a nice reveal at the end with the girl in the inn, but the middle felt too easy and the resolution too quick. Second, settle on Ari’s character a bit more. Sometimes she acts like a grumpy middle-aged woman, and other times she acts like she’s ten. Her brother treats her like she’s ten, which makes it all more confusing. Specifics: which was defiantly one reason the room wasn’t happy. Not sure what you mean here. Also I think you mean "definitely" instead of "defiantly"? (Isn't autocorrect nice??) Ari stepped inside with a single smooth motion and shot a lightning jab into the man’s solar plexus with the tip of her elbow. Why? She's very on edge here. I saw your explanation above -- that the magic makes them unusually intense -- but I didn't get the impression from your story that A uses any magic, and I never saw hints that the magic was affecting her brother in this way. But this early in the story, I think all you'd need was to hint that she was suspicious of him for a reason other than maybe being hit on, before she starts smashing bones. The tattoo was a signature of the Black Ice We know this from what the patron says in the previous line. Maybe describe it instead? "that you weren’t supposed to figure out that man had those tattoos" This seems obvious - not sure why he needs to say it. "I should be able to keep her under wraps while she’s still here." I thought he was the one who caused trouble. And why would offering to cover up for his sister make the bartender feel better? "and silent. Much like yourself." She doesn't seem silent. The Kase siblings had always had a natural affinity with wolves. Tell-y: this is you speaking, not Ari's POV! “Even with your techniques, you are only slightly stronger than most humans, and you’d freeze now if it weren’t for the symbols Mother placed inside us.” Again, coming across as tell-y. Re-word? “Where are we heading, by the way?” / “Ah.” Khel nodded. “The alpha told me that his pack had run into a nest of Black Ice. Well, told is a bit strong, but that’s the sense he conveyed. He’s taking us to them now. It’s another hour or so.” This seems out of order. Where were they heading before the wolves met up with them? The alpha sat up, and bent his head low. When did they stop running? You spent three years undergoing intense special forces training after being one of the Empire’s best mercenaries." Tell-y, again. (You know what I mean by tell-y, right?) “You feeling this is too easy?” As a reader, I’m feeling it’s too easy. Slowly Khel opened his eyes. He was the cavern. And Khel remembered. I like this kind of magic, the kind that feels natural. "It’s immune to my powers, and its armor can’t be pierced by simple swords." Tell-y, again. I believe Khel would think about this, but his thoughts would be more complicated than simply stating to himself what he already knows.

Hello! Always happy to read another Robinski chapter! I liked these chapters. I think Grimes is still coming across a little bit too much like Quirk. I can’t really say why, since they end up thinking about very different things, but my brain keeps wanting to put them in the same box. Seems like someone else made the same comment. I remember reading the scene with Quirk and the cop before, when you weren’t using an accent for her. I liked the scene much better without the accent, personally. The accent just ends up slowing me down. I agree with @kaisa and others about the offending line. Her character so far doesn't make it believable that she would come out and say all that, so it feels awkward. The 65 Days Earlier segment is great. I wondered for a little bit if this person and Grimes would end up being one and the same, but after learning Grime’s backstory a bit, it seems unlikely. I remembered after reading the comments that we know the paralyzed man is an ex-miner, so we can blame this one on WRS. I like the setup for Grimes killing Toni. It worked well. Now I’m wondering what’s going to happen to Moth and her aspirations to work deeper in the mob. A few specifics: “All that fumbling and the mess. Wouldn’t you rather go shopping instead?” Haha, interesting line of reasoning. appreciating the way gravity and musculoskeletal movement combined to make the hem of her skirt sway. Such an awkward thought. Love it. Though you might consider spacing it out from the "olfactory glands" (below) a bit more. He still remembered when money was something you held in your hand, something real, like Marjory. Grimes is so sad. focused neither on the video feed nor the oil painting on the wall he faced. There was a painting in the doctor's office, and this makes my brain hiccup while I try to decide if there's a connection. “Which I repaid ten times over,” This human is gross. I don't know how easy it is to switch to omniscient in the middle of a story. If there's a character in a scene that has had a POV before, as a reader I'm going to assume we're in that POV unless you make it clear that we're in someone else's head. Omniscient didn't even enter my head as a choice. Not saying you can't do it, just that you're going to have to work hard to get readers on the same metaphorical page.