ZenBossanova

55 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Then I guess we read that WoB differently. I read it as there are creatures that are too small, that even if they could create a gemheart, because of their size they are unable to. That in order to form a gemheart of a large size, the body creating it has to be a large size. I would liken it to the size of any other organ. A whale understandably has a larger heart than a human. It needs that size to maintain its bodily functions. Conversely an enlarged heart, is actually a dangerous condition for humans, and can result in death. So to me, even if this could potentially occur (which as per my reading of the WoB, I believe it cannot), then we also do not know the health issues an enlarged gemheart taking up space where normally it did not, would cause.

Let's compare it to different sizes of dog breeds - yes, breeds on the extreme ends have trouble, or just shorter lives. But what was once the extreme end, years ago is now common place, and relatively healthy. 

Perhaps a better comparison would be milk cows. A Holstein cow will produce 9 gallons of milk daily, and I seem to recall even higher numbers. They would not produce this naturally, but with breeding they can. 

Just as a refinement of your theory, there is WoB that indicates the Parshmen are of Odium and of Cultivation, but not Honor. 

Also, was this recent WoB talking about the diagram in the OP? 

TheFoxQR

Is this (Imgur) a valid breakdown of known Rosharan Magic? The idea here is that two Shards on Scadrial gave us 3 systems - two mono-shardic and one di-shardic. Mono-shardic systems being each shard expressing itself, and multi-shardic systems arising from an interaction between the two. So by that logic, on Roshar, 3 shards should give us 3 mono-shardic, 3 di-shardic, and 1 tri-shardic systems. It is mentioned that Odium (the Void) is bound by the powers of Honor and Cultivation. With the caveat that the Everstorm is also probably in between Honor and Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. I'd suggest the chart is worth studying, however.

Footnote: I don't know if Brandon was talking about the Voidbinding chart or my linked chart.
General Reddit 2019 (Aug. 3, 2019)

On 8/2/2019 at 11:33 AM, Pathfinder said:

Brandon:

They're not only greatshells, but not ever crustacean has a gemheart, at least not of the style that would be of any relevance to you. Some have the same sort of chemistry going on in their body, they're just too small to have it coalesce into a gemheart. And the gemheart is related to how-- particularly the greatshells, can grow to get so big.

Salt Lake ComicCon FanX 2016 (March 26, 2016)

Yes, this is how gemhearts are naturally related to creature size, but with breeding, and Surges like Progression, we should be able to make creatures, or even plants, that produce large gemhearts. 

Even here on Earth we have animals and plants that do things to unnatural levels. Roshar is uniquely suited to Cultivating new breeds. 

1 hour ago, Karger said:

If I was Navani and I desperately needed to synthesis gemstones I would review everything I knew about gemstones and likely conclude they they are made by a biological possess and so my best option is to study greatshells via autopsy.  Not work on heating different kinds of stone. 

This is a great point. There is a distinct lack of volcanism and geological activity on Roshar, yet they have an abundance of gems. It would probably be more feasible and economic to optimize those processes. 

For instance, start with a creature (smaller than a chasmfeind) that produces a tiny gemheart, and breed it for growing big ones. With Surges of progression and other Cultivation related Surges, this is a far easier way to get gemstones. 

But also, Navani will need to make her fabrials more power efficient, and get more usefulness out of smaller stones. 

They may not have the understanding yet, it is within their technological abilities. https://www.gia.edu/gem-synthetic

But they do have one big advantage... Soulcasting. I doubt they can soulcast gems, or soulcasters would be money making devices. But they should be able to soulcast the ingredients. 

But their best bet would be trading with other worlds for cheap gems like quartz or smokestone (smokey quartz). At least, if they didn't have an army of Voidbringers guarding the Shard pool. 

4 hours ago, Karger said:

Fabrails are a bit to expensive for the average Jo shmo.  Remember they consume gemstones fairly quickly and those gemstones are extremely valuable to soulcasters.

Keep in mind how much things we take for granted, have come down in price over the last hundred to two hundred years. We are probably not at the personal washing machine point, but we could have businesses with their own machines. 

What Fabrials are going to be the most important for day-to-day life? Not all households had Parshmen. 

One of the prime reasons for the Industrial Revolution in England, was the shortage of labor. The Black Plague had eliminated enough people that they needed to automate things. 

On Roshar, they have just lost a lot of manual labor. They are ripe for their own industrial Fabrial Revolution. They have the technology and the understanding. 

Navani is going to be very busy. People are going to need fabrial washing machines, dishwashers, etc. 

Mundane things, for sure. But is going to turn the world inside out. 

Assuming she has heard of the Leader of Bridge 4 and prominent Radiant, Kaladin, she may not realize that is the Kaladin she knew. 

There is a WoB that Parshmen were of Odium and Cultivation, but apparently not Honour. 

Could we use some combination of Bondsmithing and Progression, to make an axehound, that bonds with its owner, similar to how Ryshadium bond with their owners? 

I think "I am Unity" is two things

First, it is an expression, in a word, of what an ideal Bondsmith is. 

Second, I am going to call it a 6th Oath. This oath will let him fill some of the role that the Heralds filled. 

Honor will be held, by a fellowship of 10 mortals. If part of the fellowship dies, or retires, others can take their place. It will be able to do what the Heralds could not. 

This fellowship will probably be the main char of each of the ten books. So, at some point, I expect Kaladin, Shallan, Jasnah and Lift, to make similar statements. 

51 minutes ago, TheFoxQR said:

The literal shard of growth and evolution is on residence in Roshar. I doubt anything else is needed. I'm with @Invocation on the assisted or boosted evolution idea - but I don't think a Bondsmith was needed. Not for this. This seems like it's just something that happened because of the Nature of Roshar's ecosystem.

That is quite true. 

But then what would the effect of a Bondsmith on a horse be? Honestly, I am curious. 

Not completely implausible. 

We have not yet begun to see the power of a true Bondsmith in Dalinar's hands. 

Or in Ishar's hands, for that matter. That should probably worry us. 

But the literal Devil said he was. 

Doesn't that count for something? 

My suspicion is, Endowment set Vasher/Zahel and Nightblood on this path, for a reason that has not been accomplished yet. We can't have her interfering too much yet. 

9 minutes ago, IllNsickly said:

Ah, yes. The case for Political Marriage.

 

I can dig it, with one caveat. Please don’t try and force feed some romantic shtick along with it. Please let it be perfectly political, and if there must be romance, let it be gradual.

That makes perfect sense to me. 

11 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Personally I still do not see what purpose a political marriage would accomplish (Jasnah does not need legitimacy, Gavinor is the heir,... 

Kaladin is accumulating power. Not consciously, not on purpose, but he has an unofficial authority close to or equal to to that of Dalinar. Politically, that is unstable. Jasnah will be aware of times in history where that has caused problems. But if she can rope him in, it is a net gain for the Kholin dynasty. 

10 hours ago, Karger said:

I don't think either relationship is currently viable. 

A political marriage doesn't worry about age or relationships. It is for political purposes. There are age gaps much larger Jasnah-Kaladin gap for political marriages in history. 

5 hours ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

Wait, is that a thing?

I have my suspicions. 

Quote

A fan theory you should ignore because Kaladin is half Jasnah's age and because Jasnah does not seem to be interested in romance(she does not discuss her sexuality but it is generally believed that she is ace).

Similar age difference between my wife and I. But if Jasnah were interested, she wouldn't broadcast it everywhere. And she actually has shown some interest. 

But as I point out, would Jasnah even take age or compatibility into account, for a political marriage? 

It is a theory, but there is some real evidence pointing towards it. 

This talk of how soulcasting works, brings to mind something I wondered: One of the reasons Nightblood has no concept of Good and Evil, is that he was made from metal, which had never been a living being. 

But what if Vasher had started with soulcast metal, that was originally a sapient being? Would Nightblood understand mortality better? 

I think we can say that revenge is a toxic form of honor. 

Remember, the Shards aren't good by themselves. Preservation could be just as deadly as Odium. 

Personally, I would be perfectly happy to see Moash as nothing but a tragedy. Tragedies are real. Sometimes people just screw up and don't turn around. But I suspect that Moash is going to have more of an arc than that. 

First, two examples of how NOT to redeem Moash. 

(1) Star Wars: Darth Vader 

It was too short, too quick and with no repercussions, except death. It was very unsatisfying. 

(2) Thor Ragnarok: Traitor guy

An otherwise excellent movie, best of the Thor movies. This character immediately sides with the villain, spends the movie helping her, and then switches sides at the end, and "gets" to die in a blaze of righteous glory. Again, unsatisfying. 

Now, a great example of how it  is done. 

In Avatar: The Last Airbender, (Technically a child's cartoon, but don't let that fool you. It is better written than most adult fare) in the first episode you met Prince-in-Exile, Zuko, from the evil Fire Nation. He has a war ship, men and is tough to beat. He just needs to capture the last Airbender, to be restored with honor. 

After that episode, villains and problems come and go, but Zuko is the one constant. He is relentless in tracking and attacking the last Airbender. As time goes on, Zuko gradually loses everything. He ends up in greater dishonor with his father, while his psychopath sister, is praised and honored. The only thing supporting him, is his long-suffering Uncle Iroh, who is trying to impart some peace and wisdom to his troubled nephew. 

Finally, over two seasons, at the end of the second season, after he really has lost everything, is fully and permanently in Exile, and is separated from the one person who had faith in him, he really hits rock-bottom. He has genuinely suffered, and lost everything. At that point, he makes a moral decision that he will no longer support his family and nation's war. He is going to track down the last Airbender, and teach him. (long story, this is desperately needed by the hero) This goes... poorly. He is hot-headed, and kind of opposite of the hero, and his group. His first attempt, he injures the blind girl, helping Aang, the last Airbender. No one trusts him, for very good reasons. He really has to work at gaining their trust. 

That crucial decision took two full seasons, and he still had a lot of work, besides the actual teaching and advancing the plot. 

So, what does this mean for Moash? He should not be redeemed for 2+ books after he loses everything. So don't start counting until he has really ended up down on his luck. Then he needs to beat to a bloody pulp, and left for dead in a ditch. And then his troubles need to really begin. He needs to make a moral decision that entails a real cost and threat to him. Don't count book 4, because Moash is currently doing well for himself, with both the dagger and the honorblade. 

So, if Moash is redeemed, I don't expect to see it until book 7, if not later. 

Also, I expect a grand battle(s) with Kaladin. Honestly, I look forward to that. 

18 hours ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

So, there can only be three Bondsmiths, bonded to the Stomfather, the Nightwatcher, and one other related to them. Makes sense, until you consider the Honorblades. There should be an Honorblade for Bondsmith as well, so why did they say there can only ever be three in existence when there can, in fact, be four?

I see no reason there could not be a 4th quasi-Bondsmith. That person would not technically be a Knight Radiant, but they would be filling a very similar role, and that is probably what they would call him/her. 

I do know that on Earth, the fundamental forces are balanced so perfectly, some people use it as an argument for God. (Just what would our non-Cosmere Shard be?) 

If we did begin messing with the forces that hold us together, (our 'bonds'), we could seriously mess things up. Ashyn is not impossible! For instance, messing with gravity or the weak nuclear force (which governs nuclear decay of elements in the earth's core) could affect plate tectonics, which is STILL important for life to exist. Messing with either Nuclear force could affect reactions in the Sun. Real bummer if we turned it off! 

And anything, and I do mean ANYTHING done, any kind of changes to the Electro-magnetic force, would screw with chemistry and literally doom all life, if not the structural integrity of the planet itself. 

Bonds are no joke. Ico and others were right to be worried. 

It certainly could have a greater purpose, but considering Adonalsium was the forces of Creation, Creation alone is a perfectly good reason for Roshar to exist. 

That said, I suspect he understood far more about the future even than the existing Shards. Did he have a plan? Does he still?