Argel

Granted! However, the you forget your identity when you use it! I wish there were mecha in the Cosmere!!

In your scenario, has Odium already taken over all of Roshar? If not, then why attack the non-Odium factions?

@Pathfinder: I think "peace-loving" was meant as in "not a militaristic society". It's not like we have e.g. constant tribal warfare in the EB. I also don't think we can say for sure the EB is isolationist. Just because they are isolated isn't the same as having isolationist policies. They haven't even had anyone they knew about to isolate from. I do not think your analogy with Earth is valid because Harmony is far more directly involved in Scadrial than any deity on Earth. I just don't see him sitting back while Scadrial goes off on some kind of subjugation war against Roshar. Something more focused on Odium, yes, but not something so over the top. He was there for the warfare at almost end of the world before becoming Harmony after all. He has the Kandra, Wax, etc. to help out. Maybe even Marsh (assuming nothing binds Marsh to Scadrial). Maybe a certain cognitive shadow would push for a war, but we know what a good crew can do in Era 1 and Era 2 at this point. Now, maybe the war is meant to distract Odium from the adventuring crew sent to deal with Odium. That's probably the most credible theory I can come up, though that feels too much like Tolkien. Though, uhm, one shard to rule them all... Hmm....

I like both theories, though maybe the second one slightly better. IIRC there are three planets with sentient life on them in the Roshar system. So there could be more than just the three. Might be worth asking Brandon if that number drops to 2 if Odium leaves Braize.

Yeah, that's more believable because he keeps the series in the same solar system at least, which I suspect he wants to do. Evacuating refugees to somewhere else though could be done as a side story though, something Cosmere fans could pick up on. Anyway, sorrry to digress, but I think what I laid out above makes more sense than Scadrial invading all of Roshar just because of Odium.

Scardians not having a reason to go to war is the biggest problem. Though I could see Odium becoming a reason in a short amount of time. But why a war? I think we have a cast of characters from the W&W books that would likely be the adventurers (not scouts) that go to Roshar to investigate matters. Or maybe Harmony already is with the Kandra (we know a Kandra is there) and Harmony will figure out a way to cajole the W&W Crew (Wax, Wayne, Malaan(?), Marasi, and Steris (and who knows, maybe Marasi's boyfriend from SoScad) to head over to help resolve the situation. In which case, they eventually ally with the KRs. If there is an invasion, it seems like it would be against the voidbringers (and maybe liberate any countries, princedoms intentionally or unintentionally aiding the enemy). Given the destruction of the Everstorm, the question of refugees might come up as well. You know, if Hoid is willing to let Roshar burn for the presumably greater good, then maybe he helps set an evacuation to Scadrial in motion or lays the groundwork for it. Maybe books 1-5 are about the escape and 6-10 are about retaking Roshar? I doubt Brandon is headed in this direction, but on the other hand, this is his epic series....

Not sure if the those giant living, moving "islands" have been brought up for Roshar, though they seem to move too slow, and not sure they can leave the water (for long). Scenrio as presented pretty much favors Roshar. I think the big question is how can Roshar invade Scadrial? For example, if the mists could be used as Stormlight, could Roshar get the jump on the Elendel Basin fast enough to pull off a victory?

Kevino36, if you want to defend Roshar, then try addressing the big issues such as their inability to take the war to Scadrial on a meaningful level or that we know there are Scardian worldhoppers on Roshar already, including a Kandra but no evidence of the opposite. Right now you are trying too hard. For example, it was pointed out many invaders conquered unknown lands and your response is that they didn't start at the top of a very cold mountain, as if that is something Era 2 (early industrial age/steampunkish) Scadrial cannot deal with. And then there's: So united that Sadeas orchestrates Dalinar's assassination near the end of TWoK (without Kaladin there Dalinar and his forces would have been wiped out), Even with the Everstorm, Sadeas is still scheming. And they turned hunting Gavilar's murders into a gem hunting game in no time. At the end of TWoK Dalinar finally realizes that he will have to force the highprinces to as he put it stop acting like children. And we know there is unrest in other parts of the world, both internal and between other counties. Other countries. The Elendel Basin doesn't have any other countries. It has smaller cities that are growing very tired of the power and influence of the capital city, but that's internal unrest. Roshar has multiple countries and at least some with civil unrest. Weill, probably more than some given the recent round of assassinations. We cannot take it as a given that a common enemy would unite Roshar. If Kandra infiltrated various government and highprince factions then the Kandra could easily keep the old political games and civil unrest going by playing it off as an opportunity for highprince X over whoever Scadrial is attacking at that moment. And if Scadrial can e.g. win the shattered plains quickly, then how soon before spanreed communications are actually believed?? A fast victory on the shattered plains (or wherever) could mask the invasion. Roshar factions need to hold out long enough to give them a chance to even realize they need to unite. With that said, would there be warnings from Death Rattles? The Diagram? What about those giant living "islands". As a side note, military drafts/conscripts on Scadrial would seem to lead to more civil unrest at home. On the other hand, offering rights of conquest, a decent amount of money, etc. would seem believable. Though if the motive is e.g. dealing with an outside threat (e.g. Odium/Autonomy), then Scadrial could have a very strong motive and people might be volunteering to help defend their home. Though that motive is also a reason for e.g. alliances to form with the KRs and forming alliances in general given that Odium is not exactly a friend to Roshar either. Anyway, it seems like time is on Scadrial's side. Roshar needs more time to unite, more time to come up with ways to counter e.g. guns, more time to figure out how to take the fight back to Scadrial, etc.

I think it's pretty telling that the prevailing assumption is Scadrial invading Roshar. If Roshar doesn't have a way to take the fight to Scardial, then the war seems to be Scadrial's to lose.

Yeah, I may be thinking of Nightblood. Really good research there. I agree, I think without more information, the current evidence suggests shardblades have no inherent advantage over shardplate. Really good question though.

Makes sense about normal weapons, but then why didn't Adolin take out that hammer in the duel in WoR? Just no opportunity? Nitpicking, but in the duel one of the shardplaters was using a warhammer, so was not shardbearer. It seems that it's the amount of force and how it is applied (e.g. bludgeoning vs. slashing/piercing). Shardplate obviously makes that easier. But I think the OP is asking if you were not using shardplate, so no attribute boost, then how does a shardblade compare to a mundane hammer.

Shardblades could be preferred for social/societal/cultural reasons. It's basically a way to flaunt status, money, etc. Plus presumably most of the shardbearers probably train with the sword the most (i.e. use the weapon you are familiar with). Think about reading/writing, the music, the arts, safehands, etc. all cultural things. I think shardblades are cognitive realm but cut/damage all three, but I haven't had any luck tracking that WoB down (but I have read through some recent transcripts that I do not think are on here yet so harder to search). We know it does spiritual realm damage (see quote below) and obviously physical realm. Have you read the thread about bullets doing damage to shardplate? There is some interesting discussion in there about kinitex energy/damage. Don't forget that arrows can damage shardplate and Kaladin even used his legs via lashing in the duel with Adolin (and of course one of the duelists used a hammer, and it was causing damage). It seems like shardplate was deisgned to protect against hits from shardblades, which are usually swords. I wonder what shardplate would look like if there were tons of shardhammers instead of shardblades?

Then wouldn't that make recoil from hitting the shardplate a bigger problem for a shardblade (assuming no strength or dexterity boosts)? I think there is still the question of the special cutting abilities of the shardblade -- does that give it any advantage?

Granted. However, everyone will disagree with the point you are making. Your bane is they will also be insulted/offended by it. I wish I for an amazing Talent from Alcatraz (that is not like the downside or bane to your granted wish).

Does the Stormlight actually help hold the shardplate together though? We know given a decent amount of force that mundane weapons can break shard plate, so it doesn't seems like if Stormlight is helping to hold it together the threshold to bypass it is low. And shardplate without any Stormlight doesn't suddenly fall apart. I think the theory is the opposite -- investiture vs. mundane. In general in the Cosmere it seems that being Invested is better, so I would expect Invested vs. Invested to cancel each other out. So let's say there is some kind if of rating for how Invested something (IR = Investiture Rating?) , so let's say a shardblade is IR100 and the shardplate is IR20, then maybe the shardblade's effect is 100-20=IR80. Not sure if that makes a shardblade worse than a battle hammer though. Now, a different argument might be that since a shardblade (IIRC) cuts through all three realms, that it cuts off access to the Stormlight. Though we're back to whether Stormlight actually holds shardplate together, which I'm skeptical of. I think if it did do that then it would be much harder to break, and we wouldn't have a lengthy thread about bullets penetrating shardplate (or if we did, it might be how many can wear the Stormlight effect down). It might be worth asking if a shardblade had an advantage over a heavily Invested hammer that doesn't have any special abilities (such as shardblades cutting through all three realms).

Granted! Unfortunately, all the dirt, grime, etc. transfers to your skin! I wish it would stop snowing!

If the CR is solely based on expectations, then why is land absent/water and water land?

Not to mention that there are plenty of examples in history of soldiers lining up in a field, including the American Civil War (likely due to inaccuracies of guns at the time).

I think I read a WoB stating the covers for the practice ones were not aluminum.

I think it's sheer conjecture at this point, since we have a WoB that aluminum can affect the different magic systems in strange ways. Based on Scadrial's aluminum, I would say it has to disrupt the stormlight powering the shardplate, so just hitting the plate would not be good enough. But for all we know, on Roshar it could have an area effect (or do something different). Opposite (of sorts) question -- could aluminum be better at preventing stormlight from leaking out (assuming stormlight refuses to interact with it)? EDIT: What do we know about metals on Roshar? No "copper" in WoR, but bronze and silver are mentioned. And for aluminum we have:

Except this is the first time we see Kaladin the Windrunner KR. Not "in training", "almsost ready" Kaladin. This is the Kaladin that finally undertands what he wants -- understands who he is. Brandon goes out of his way imo to play this up, like how light bursts from Kal when he says the oath to become a Windrunner (against Moash and Graves). And how the honor blade is somehow dimmer than Syl in shard blade form, etc. I think Kaladin would have won even if Szeth had not given up. Given that this was a major poitn in Kaladin's arc, the end of the book, the actual reforming of the KRs, etc. and you really want to argue Kaladin would have lost? And considering Szeths powers came from the honor blade, who cares if Kaladin has an advantage for being a KR!? If you try and account for all advatnages, then I think we're down to whether Szeth has more training with the sword or Kaladin with the spear.

It sounds like that if shard plate is kind of stuck formed the way it is that eventually the equivalent to kevlar for the armor itself would be developed.

Here's a question -- does the effect wear off? In TES that metal plate is needed to keep the forgery working. Shallan draws herself a few times before she figures out how to use lightweaving for illusions (e.g. to get Vatah and the other deserters to help out, when meeting Dalinar, et. al. for the first time). Maybe it wears off faster for her because she's more aware of the "lie"?

It could just mean there is a Herdazian worldhopper. Or he worldhops to Roshar. Or Herdazian food is all the rage at this point in (far in the future) time. Or it's used as an enhanced interrogation technique....

Or maybe there are too involved in the political games, backstabbing, etc.?