Rhaegar'Elin

A bit late to the party: Warning: black humor ahead (chapter 11):

On Oatbringer and the Epigraphs From Chapter 26 - Blacktorn Unleashed I think this summarize how all people on Roshar see current Dalinar: leaders don't trust his offers of peace and other Radiants (well just Malata but I think it would be easy to generalize) are wary of him. And I can't really blame them: Alethi are generally known to be warlords and the Blackthorn was the worst (or the best) of them all. Most of all, I think Dalinar chose the wrong approach to this project, presenting himself as a man of peace (making wary who knows of the Blackthorn's deeds) and never confronting with his past. So, I think Oathbringer will be Dalinar's last attempt at unifying Roshar peacefully: he will show the world the man he used to be, a man who didn't need tricks or subterfuge to seize what he wanted... more or less like he brutally explained this concept to his nephew back in SA1 (and I don't think it's a coincidence that Elhokar reminded what happened in the chapter he nominated Dalinar Highking). Of course, I don't think this book will only be a "veiled threat" but also an account on Dalinar himself: explaining his story and his motives, the man who is now and the purpose that drives him. All for the sake of convincing Roshar's people to trust him. Sure, the Epigraphs are (intentionally) so vague that the author could be literally anyone (even Amaram) but I kinda like this explanation. 25. The Girl Who Looked Up - IIRC, every Stormlight book will have a story and this is likely the one for SA3. I was surprised it wasn't narrated by Wit (but it's still possible he will tell us the conclusion, that felt a little bit rushed to me) and a little disappointed Brandon changed the title: in a twitter he announced that the story's title in this book would have been The Girl Who Stole The Light (that is much more cooler). - I was surprised by the possible readings of this story, though: initially I thought the Wall represented Urithiru than that was a metaphor for Shallan's mind (not letting certain things reach to her) and lastly a "fairy tale" based on the ancient conflict (?) with the Listeners. I fear I could came up with other absurd explanation if I keep wondering... - Anyway, everyone knows that the Wall was build as a defense against the Others. - Shallan imitating Allomantic Electrum's effect: nice application of her Lightweaving. - Lastly, Shallan meets Pennywise (they all float in Urithiru), the being behind the copycat's murders. Maybe IT's an Unmade... or maybe IT's something related to them (like the Ten Deaths). 26. Blackthorn Unleashed - I really liked the interaction between Evi and Dalinar: how she wanted to be touched (much to Dalinar's dismay) and how hard she tries to bring out the best of him. I'm really worried about the upcoming chapters between the two (especially if the Epigraphs are dictated by Dalinar). I also liked Navani writing a glyph for Dalinar (not trusting Evi's writing) and him not burning it. Eventually he will know: Blackthorn's legend lives on! - I really enjoyed the fight with Kalaran and exchange of words between the two: Dalinar recognizing the Thrill in his enemy's eyes reminds me of him recognizing the eyes of the Dark Shardbearer with Nine Shadows. I think it's already a fact but in this chapter there were a lot of hints pointing to the relation between the Thrill and Odium. - Also, at the Tower, Dalinar used the same tactic as Kalaran in fighting Eshonai. 27. Playing Pretend - Nice tidbits on the Dustbringer. I'm pretty neutral toward Malata but I think she's the real deal and doesn't have a private agenda: I think she's simple wary of Alethi (and Blackthorn in particular) due to the reasons mentioned above. - Amaram is the new Highprince of the Sadeas Princedom: I don't think this is as bad as many Sharders claims... well, it sure isn't something good (especially for Kaladin) but I think that, all in all, it will play out well for Dalinar. I mean, in SA2 Amaram regretted having lost Dalinar's friendship and, right now, Dalinar represents pretty much what the Son's of Honor are striving to accomplish: I think he will genuinely help his friend in unifying Roshar and fighting the Desolation. Also, I believe he will see as his duty preventing Dalinar from becoming an heretic (IIRC they already had a discussion on the Almighty being dead in the previous book). - Adolin being a proto-Dustbringer confirmed: he nonchalantly dropped a huge bomb on Shallan (and Kaladin) just to see of what they are made of. - Shallan's drawing are pretty creepy: I wonder if we'll see some of them in the book.

Thanks for your reply: I'm glad I didn't miss anything big. That could be... but why don't drop a line explaining that? That's the principal reason bothering me. Maybe my OP wasn't clear but I never stated there wasn't a good explanation: simply that I couldn't find out one. And, as stated above it's more that none of the characters has talked about it or even mentioned it (being the sheer luck of having oddly found the only one unlocked or remarking how they locked the others fearing an enemy attack). What I mean is, if there is really a "mystery" behind the Oathgate to Stormseats, I would have liked that Brandon would have flashed it a bit more (just making someone stating how they were lucky finding the one unlocked)* or, if there isn't anything odd, he would have explicitly stated it. Anyway, your assumptions sounds plausible. Right now, this seems to me the most probable explanation: we only need to find why. --- *Even if what @Andy92 says (that I completely forgotten) should be proof enough, I would have liked a simple "reminder" in this chapters.

Probably there is something I'm missing or that I fail to understand but, reading SA3 new chapters, there is something that keeps bothering me: how the Oathgates work. From chapter 12: With my (poor) knowledge of the English language, seems to me that you need to unlock both ends of the Oathgate before travelling from and to Urithiru. This seems also to make sense because if the Oathgates didn't work that way, Dalinar needed only to unlock the Oathgate to Kolinar in order to settle the riot in his hometown. But, if they indeed work this way, who unlocked the Oathgate in Urithiru when Shallan activated the Stormseat's one? If I'm not missing something obvious, I have a couple of ideas on the matter (but none truly convincing me): 1) The Oathgates in Urithiru were sealed by the Radiants just before the Recreance: Stormseat's was the one they used to live the Holy City. But, if that's the case, why don't use an Elsecaller to lock even the Stormseat's one and then leave with the Transportation Surge? 2) You could freely walk to Urithiru but needed some sort of "permission" to enter one of the Silver Kingdoms. Again this doesn't seem to be the case: first, the Oathgates seems like of Pairing Fabrials (with a kind of symmetry) and Navani seems to imply that they are locked on the Urithiru side. 3) Someone (maybe a Radiant Worldhopper... possibly among the lines of the Ghostbloods) unlocked it. But why? And how did he/she know Urithiru position and reached it? This doesn't seem to fit. --- Anyway, I'm starting hoping I missed something obvious because this seems such a pivotal plot point (helping Dalinar's Army flee the Everstorm and "forcing" the action of the new book) to not address it.

10. - Peeping Spren! I imagined something along this lines: Syl: "Go, Kaladin! Go!" ... Kaladin: "Did you like it?" Shallan: "That was... great." Pattern: "Mmm... a powerful lie..." - I really liked the interaction between the Kholin Brothers and it's nice having proof that Renarin wasn't hijacked by a Voidspren. 11. That's a quote from The Way of Kings that Dalinar quoted back in WoR. It sounds pretty ominous after this chapter. 12. - I really hope Vstim (and Rysn, of course) is the Thaylen Merchant Navani used to contact the Shin XD - Maybe it's a stupid question and I'm missing something but... ... who unlocked the gate in Urithiru when Shallan unlocked the Stormseat's one? - I don't understand why Bondsmiths were supposed (if they really were: I'm not still convinced) to lead Radiants and people: I mean, Ishar seems more the Herald equivalent of an ASoIaF Maester than a leader. Nevertheless, I was really pleased with this turn of events: Highking Dalinar... sounds good to me. Also, I really liked Elhokar in this chapter: it takes a lot of strength and courage to face our own fails and shortcomings... and he handled this pretty well: suddenly, an hypothetical story arc focused on him sounds more interesting. In this book, there will be a time where Dalinar will think that things couldn't get any worse for him. And Taravangian will be there, reminding him that things can always get worse.

SPOILER The Thrill

In regard to the voice speaking to the Rhythms, I don't think it came from an Herald: it doesn't seem to fit with Nale's modus operandi and I don't see why the Heralds should be able to speak to the Rhythms (they could, obviously, but right now looks unlikely to me). So, I think it's more probable that the voice came from one of the Shards, Cultivation or Odium... maybe, via Unmade: according to a Death Rattle there is the Black Piper in the Night (maybe an Unmade?) that "plays a tune no man can hear." Anyway, I think both of them could speak to the Rhythms being associated with the Listeners: IIRC there is a WoB that says so, even if not originally. The problem is which of them spoke to Kaede and why. I think it was Odium and the key of this action is the Everstorm. We know this is a new thing, never used in other Desolations and we know it transforms every Parshman come in contact with it... so I'm left wondering: how did the Listeners achieved the Forms of Power in the previous Desolations? Sure there was another way. And what about this old method wouldn't work this time because Parshmen were robbed of an ancient, crucial, spren? What if the "classic" Desolation would come only to leave Odium without a significant amount of his army (or leaving him doing other things in order to regain them)? There is even a passage in the Diagram that could be interpreted in this way: Taravangian knows that the coming of the Desolation can't be stopped yet he is worried to stop the Parshendi "before this one obtains their power. It will form a bridge." Is he refering to Stormform and the Everstorm? Maybe this would be more dangerous than a "normal" Desolation. Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced by this theory but I like it more than the ones involving various Heralds. Thanks for sharing your thoughts: I understand your POV and you surely state true things but, on the other hand, I can't see the Kholin (or the above mentioned historical figures) as "bad guy" for taking the Princedom or conquering Alethkar... especially considering their war driven culture. Sure, they did heinous acts during the war (and I condemn them for those) but, given the context, I don't think their desire of conquering was evil in itself.

Except fort the info on the Kholin family, the other things you state were pretty obvious: they were the conqueror and, to conquest, they had to invade the other Princedoms. Of course they were the antagonists (from other Highprinces prospective) but does this means they are the bad guys like you seem to imply? I'm not very good with English language, so I want to assure you I'm not accusing you (or having some kind of unpleasant attitude toward you) but just trying to understand your thoughts on the matter: do you think Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar or Napoleon (to name a few) were "bad guys"? They, like the Kholins, were the conquerors, the invaders, the one that shed first blood. Sure, in our times they would be despicable... but then (like on Roshar) were different times. And Alethkar is a very martial driven nation: if even Dalinar and Gavilar fought a branch of their family (and they, also, could not share deep blood relations like many cadet branch) for the Princedom I really can't see them as the evil ones (of course, they would be if they had treacherously slaughtered them... but so far we don't know). If that's true I have an issue: why taking Taln's Blade and not Jezrien's? I mean, I think she would have noticed the same way Kalak (?) did: "That creature carries my Lord's Blade!" (or something along the line).

There was a girl who found everything odd but to trade with the Reshi, showed to be bold. Her legs were broken but she got a token: a larkin, gift from a god.

I strongly disagree with your interpretation. Dalinar is an honorable man because he follows a code of honor (a set of implicit rules that define his duties in a social group) and he followed it always, regardless of what he had to gain or lose, even when the honorable route wasn't the easy one. In the eventuality he will discover Adolin's actions, honor will require to judge his own son like he would judge anybody: I'm pretty sure, however, that Dalinar will go harsher on him in order to restore the Kholin's honor in the eyes of the Highprinces. This decision would be despicable if judged by our own ethical and moral principles (where the father is supposed to shelter his sons) but it is still an honorable one. Honor is a tricky subject and it's distinct from morals and ethics, sometimes even in conflict with them... like well shown in A Song of Ice and Fire series, especially in So, in the end, it's all a matter of perspective, in the same way Abraham's actions in the biblical tale of Isaac's Sacrifice could be seen as despicable (by moral principles) or commendable (by faith principles). In conclusion, I really don't see Dalinar as an opportunist. According to the dictionary, an opportunist is "a person who practices opportunism, or the policy of adapting actions, decisions, etc., to effectiveness regardless of the sacrifice of ethical principles" (but I would add also honor principles, because we are talking of an honor society). That's not Dalinar: he doesn't change his behavior, he doesn't forfeit his honor in order to gain something. He simply acts according his own honor code despite of the consequences... because Adolin's punishment could easily backfire in the greater scheme of uniting Alethkar. --- More on topic, I can't see Adolin as a traitor. So far, he has always acted keeping in mind his family (when he kills Sadeas) or his friends (when he goes in jail for Kaladin): I really can't believe he would betray them.

I get your point and, more or less, I agree with you: I wouldn't be excited if everyone turn out to be a KR. On the other end, I understand the flourish of such theories (which I myself contributed): KR are gonna be an army. There will be hundreds, if not thousands, of them, so make sense thinking that Sanderson showed us other Proto-Radiants besides the main characters. Of course not everyone of them will turn in a KR but every reader has a favorite side character (mine being Rysn) that gets pushed in this kind of theory XD Anyway, I didn't know of the deep connection between Larkin and Lanceryn: that's a very interesting news! And I agree with you, seeing her riding a Lanceryn in the back half books would be glorious! Either way, so long as I get one Rysn Interlude for book (being her a KR, a Lanceryn rider or being carriend around by Vstim on his back) I will be happy XD There's even a Death Rattle that could refer to this situation: I know most readers think this refers to Tien's death but seeing how much Death Rattles are about Kaladin, I would like better if this one was instead about Renarin.

I don't think Dalinar loved his wife so much to commit a passion crime: I think she gets (involuntary) killed while trying to stop Dalinar from murdering his brother... or killed in a fit of rage while confronting his husband on his intention of killing Gavilar. IIRC, Dalinar visited the Nightwatcher after trying to kill his own brother, though I don't know if his wife's death could fit the timeline. He wasn't a good person, I won't discuss that: he was obsessed with battle and was ready to kill everybody (even his own brother) who stood between him and what he wanted. But, NOW, he is a very different person and I think is a bit unfair judging him for what he did (or was willing to do) in the past because people can change. True, he is still too rigid and over confident in "him being always right"... and he won't win a prize as "Father of the Year" (for how he treats Adolin, at least). However, he's really trying to be better of how he was and to be honorable even in the face of a Desolation: I honestly don't think that, now, he isn't a good person. I mean, he could go full Taravangian or Gavilar to unite Roshar but I'm sure he will find out a more honorable (more "Journey before Destination") path to follow and, in the end, he will discover he is much better than the brother he used to idolize XD

10. Sons of Honor are led (or were founded) by an Herald in incognito: I guess Jezrien.* 09. Rysn will attract a Radiant Spren: Willshaper, most likely. 08. Adolin will have a very rough time and will break with Shallan. He will move his first steps toward becoming a KR. 07. Vivenna is looking for Vasher and Nightblood with no success, so far. She will meet with Adolin. 06. Dalinar killed his wife: his boon was to forget her. 05. SPOILER Edgedancer 04. In the "Epilogue" Wit will meet Eshonai (so far, he met people involved in the "Prelude" or "Prologue" so I think this symmetry will be preserved). 03. Dalinar will become increasingly obsessed with his (difficult) duty to unite Roshar, neglecting what happens around him (mostly involving Adolin and Renarin). He will seriously consider to unleash the Blackthorn to accomplish this task but, in the end, he will find the right way. 02. Taravangian will capture an Unmade (probably Moelach). 01. SPOILER Edgedancer *Very farfetched: I put it just for fun.

There are a lot of scenes I like (mostly involving Mat) but if I had to choose only one, it would be Mat and Rand boasting about what they have done in the time they haven't seen each others (AMoL): it always amuse me how they found time for this childish game while the world's destiny was hanged by a thread XD Honorable mentions for Perrin chasing the Slayer and Mat defeating the Gholam.

Of course, in my OP I failed to say that, despite some similarities, they are two very different magic systems (for the reasons you already mentioned) but, well, I didn't mean than Sanderson copied but just that he used some key elements in a new way, creating a similar but at the same time very different magical system. However, I don't deny I could be biased and these similarities could be just coincidences. P.S. Thanks for your kind words but I still feel I have a long way to go in order to improve my English: anyway, my native language is Italian XD

Before starting, let me advise that in this post I will discuss some (very general) characteristics of the magic system in the Wheel of Time series. I don't think this would count as a spoiler but better safe than sorry. --- Reading Elantris I found some similarities between the AonDor and the One Power in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time. Being Sanderson a fan of this series and being Elantris his first work, I think the One Power had some influence (consciously or not) in creating this magic system. Differently from other magic systems seen in the Cosmere, AonDor is much "more broad" and "less bound" (at least on the what you can do part)... more like the One Power; Also, both systems draw energy from a source (The Dor the AonDor, Saidar/Saidin the One Power) through intricate patterns (Aons for AonDor, Weavings* for the One Power) with possible catastrophic results if the pattern is wrong. In short, I think the One Power in WoT slightly influenced Sanderson in creating AonDor: I would like to know if other readers have the same impression or it's just my thought (plus, I don't know if Sanderson has already said something on regard). *I read the translation of WoT in my own language, so I don't know if this is the proper terminology: bear with me if I'm wrong, I hope you will still understand from the contest.

Splitting the first book of a new franchise in 2 or more movies would be a major flop: in order to have a sequel, the first movie must sell and, to sell, people must like it. The Movie Business is plenty of Fantasy Series that had an adaptation of the first book and never a sequel (sure, the dropped series were pretty much very generic and the adaptation of very poor quality)... and we don't want SA to be one of them. All in all, in WoK doesn't happen much: for the most part, the book is about the struggle of a slave, a lord thinking he's going mad and a girl questioning if it's morally right to steal. If the movie will be only about this story, without the characters overcoming their difficulties, chances are it will greatly disappoint viewers (resulting in a flop). However, I agree that a TV Series would be a more fitting adaptation but SA isn't ASoIaF because it would require a lot of CGI to recreate Roshar (Spren, flora & fauna, Shardblade, Surgebinding...) resulting in an insane budget (very likely a prohibitive cost) or a poor quality. All in all, I think a (single) movie adaptation would be the best choice for WoK. --- Now, on the casting, reading only the books I always imagined Alethi like caucasian (I would never guessed they weren't) so I will stick to that in the following choices: - Annalise Basso as Shallan Davar: since I saw her in Captain Fantastic I thought she would make a great Shallan. She's a natural redhead and very young (actually 18) and around Shallan's age. Plus, she really looks like how I depicted Shallan in my mind; - Russell Crowe as Dalinar Kholin: true, he seems to have gained some weight for his role in The Mummy but this is a problem "easy" to resolve for an actor and he could give a more imposing presence like he had in The Gladiator. He's 53 and Dalinar should be in his fifties: the age should fit well but make-up could make he look slightly older if needed (and do something for the broken nose); For other roles, I have a few ideas but I'm not entirely convinced: I was thinking Natalie Portman as Jasnah Kholin (but maybe she isn't tall enough so Keira Knightley could be a good compromise) and Jennifer Connelly as Navani Kholin (she's 46, around the age of Navani I guess... but she could result "too young" depending on who will be cast as her daughter). Plus, Mickey Rourke as Sadeas (but maybe he's way older) and Anya Taylor-Joy as Sylphrena... but I'm undecided and still thinking.

Have you read the Jasnah's deleted scene?

I think times are ready for having an interplanetary couple, so my new ship will be Adolin x Vivenna (or Adolenna)

Skybreakers are my favorite too, however I don't think they are the most powerful Order... mostly because I don't think there is a Order that could be labeled as such. What I mean is that every Order has a very specific role so for different duties (and different conditions) a Surge could be more useful than another 'seemingly' more powerful. However, I think that Skybreakers, due to their combination of Surges (that grant them high mobility and sheer power) are the most apt at wreaking havoc through the enemies lines... together with Dustbringers and Stonewards (the latter being a mere speculation, not having seen their Surges in action... but Stonewards are the Order of the Herald of War: I expect them being pretty useful in a battle).

The cover is simply astounding (even if Jasnah is floating for seemingly no reason) but... but I was hoping for Dalinar (legends say he's featured in the WoK cover but to me seems only a random Shardbearer) On a side note, nice info on the Thunderclast.

There are some really interesting thoughts in this thread XD My post won't add much to the discussion in this sense but I wanted to say that I really like the idea of a Retribution Shard, one who embodies the Divine Punishment, the righteous Fury or Wrath of God: of course it could be a similar Intent to Justice or Vengeance (but I like Retribution more).

I agree with maxal: what works for a media doesn't work necessarily for another and a movie adaptation has to tighten the book story. So, I think it will be good for the movie to set Shallan's story arc on the Shattered Plains. Taravangian could be introduced in a political travel to the Shattered Plains: at one of Elhokar's party, maybe Dalinar want to strike a deal for using his healers or maybe Taravangian is worried for the War of Reckoning and the chaos in Jah Keved or others thing. We will learn he is the King of Kharbranth, of his Hospitals and we will see him as a good grandpa: maybe he can interact a little with Jasnah and Shallan like in the book (but nothing too long). Then, at the end of the movie we have his confrontation with Szeth in Kharbranth followed by Taln's post-credits scene. Of course, Taravangian's introduction will depend on how big his role will be in the next book but this is just for say, all in all, I think a WoK movie will work well if set entirely on the Shattered Plains.

Your argumentations are really valid and seems to fit well with the general "older romance" Brandon talked once (IIRC) like Dalinar & Navani. I was just saying that I enjoyed the (very) little interaction of Lift and Gawx in Edgedancer and I would like to see more of them and see how things evolve (the funniest thing is I didn't like both of them in the WoR Interlude ). I agree that right now there aren't romantic feelings between the two but there is ground to develop them in due time (well, at least on Gawx part): just for saying, I wouldn't mind them ending up together later in the series XD Obviously, being Gawx a lesser than tertiary character, Kaladin x Lift makes much more sense and there isn't much right now to support a future Gawx x Lift but, well, if I didn't bring up the argument in a thread like this I never would XD P.S. Based on future interactions, I could also like Lift ending up with Kaladin.

Poor Gawx... he seemed very fond of Lift Strangely, despite their little interaction, I kinda like Gawx x Lift: I would like to read scenes involving both of them XD