Govir

Just throwing this out there, but when I go running, 3 MPH is my walking speed and 6 MPH is my running speed. It's a very odd running speed in that it feels pretty fast if you're on a treadmill, but it feels relatively slow on the road (I have to actively monitor my speed, so as not to go too fast). It's definitely on the slower end of the run speed spectrum.

• Renarin can’t have seen someone dying to the Chasmfiend, because no one (important) did. If he had, he’d have already known the visions weren’t “set in stone” and not despaired as much in Oathbringer about Jasnah.
• At first I thought he bonded around the time he stopped wearing glasses. In WoR P260 is the last mention of him wearing them and P334 is the first without (also, that section starts out with him summoning his blade and freezing). But the first set of numbers happens on p80, which means Renarin had to have been bonded at that point. I don’t think he was bonded on tWoK (gut feeling here).

7 hours ago, Parallax said:

The listeners needed to adopt a form of power (stormform) to bring about the Everstorm and they do so without using Voidlight.

Ok, you’re right. I am conflating Forms of Power (aka Regals) with being able to use the surges, but that’s reserved for the Fused. This is probably because we mostly see Venli as a POV character who is a Regal, but can use surges (via Timbre).

On 12/29/2020 at 9:37 AM, Parallax said:

Regals don't need voidlight

Where does this info come from? My understanding is that they use Voidlight, but the source is either always plugged in or they can get more directly whenever by attuning to Odium’s rhythm.

Which is my point in the False Desolation. BAM connected to *all* the singers in order for them to get Voidlight from her, instead of Odium (who was locked away on Braize)

And I’m still iffy on False Desolation Regals, i.e. it makes more sense (to me) for BAM to “provide” voidspren than to say she was giving forms of power directly (e.g. without voidspren). OR maybe it’s an adapter situation. Singers have a socket X. Voidspren have a plug Y. BAM provides an adapter of plug X and socket Y, something Odium would normally do. This would give a reason why capturing her would remove the Regals as well.

I think we need more information about BAM to say for sure, because both your quotes could be read as “gave them voidspren”, @Chaos.

28 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Well, both the Radiants at the gemstone archive believe that BAM provided the forms of power, and Ulim's recount of the situation says that as well.

I will defer to your knowledge in this regard, but I still think the main thing was that she could also provide Voidlight to fuel the forms of power, something only Odium could do previously.

I have a theory on Ba-Ado-Mishram: What if it’s a similar situation to Yelig-nar, where the unmade is actually inhabiting someone? I.E. what if the unmade was actually Ba-Ado and the container was Mishram (who in my head is a Singer)? A successful merger, unlike we’ve seen with Yelig-nar.

This could explain why Kalak refers to her as Mishram (wanting to see the person more than the unmade) as well as why Raboniel swears to Ado (possibly Ba is a title, and therefore dropped in the curse), i.e. it’s just an old Singer curse when only Ba-Ado existed.

So my very rough timeline would be that Ba-Ado existed (separate) prior to the False Desolation. Mishram was a Singer (known to the heralds, or at least Kalak), and was looking for ways to get an edge up on the humans. She finds Ba-Ado and successfully joins with them, becoming Ba-Ado-Mishram. The joining gives her the powers of a bond smith (maybe not fully, but enough to provide Voidlight).

(this is evolving as I type)

So BAM Connects to Roshar (i.e. the Spren of Roshar), in order to start generating Voidlight. Then BAM Connects to all Parsh in order to form a conduit where Parsh with forms of power can get a supply of Voidlight 

This kicks off the False Desolation because Regals are returning. Bunch of more intense fighting happens, until finally Melishi figures out a way to capture BAM, ripping the Connection out of the Parsh and Roshar. Kalak (and maybe other heralds) was there because they knew Mishram before, and saw it as putting down an old friend who had gone mad 

Further speculation: the method of imprisonment is similar to the knives from RoW, perhaps originally used to just drain Stormlight, was repurposed by Melishi to extract BAM (cannot be unmerged now) from the body.

(As a counter to something said above, Regals for sure use Voidlight. I don’t think BAM granted forms of power, but granted the fuel needed instead)

Edit: Let’s go even farther and crazier: I thought I heard someone mention an Aon Ado (but it isn’t on the coppermind). And I’m also vaguely remembering someone saying that the Seon are unique. So what if there was an even farther back Seon Ado, who was unmade by Odium, and thus became Ba-Ado, the Unmade. (I don’t know that I believe this edit, since I couldn’t find an Aon Ado, but throwing it out there).

I am only about halfway through the episode, so forgive me if this was brought up. But the early talk about new Fused set off alarm bells for me with Mistborn Era 2 spoilers.

Hey, these are obviously RoW spoilers. Throwing it in a tag to be safe.
 

Spoiler for the podcast I suppose (and Oathbringer, if you want to get technical)

The whole episode had me laughing, but this got me real good. Well done.

First, I think one thing that hasn't gotten enough traction is that I felt like Brandon reused a lot of scenarios he's already done. See my post here. I will re-iterate that I'm not sure this is a bad thing persay, but it is definitely something I noticed throughout.

Second, I have thoughts from the podcast. So much so, I re-listened and made some notes.

1. (I've moved this to number 1, even though it came up later. I think it's the most important) I believe it's important to remember that the Delvers aren't actually the big bad in this book. Winzik's faction is. They are attempting to use the Delvers to seize power and much of what we hear about the Delvers is Winzik's propaganda. It is unlikely that the Delvers would have entered our realm in this book without Brade actively calling them (which took some time). In that sense, I am OK with how "easily" it was turned away. I do think we are not done with the Delvers, but I think we're going to see more interaction with them while Spensa is in the Nowhere and not as much of them in our realm.
2. You mentioned how M-Bot thinks faster when the portal to the Nowhere is opened. I believe this is because the Nowhere is "where" cytonic activity takes place. M-Bot (and other advanced AI) use cytonic circuits to get their processing speeds. Therefore, I think that M-Bot is expanding into the Nowhere. Theory A: The Delvers could be ancient AI that have copied their programming to the Nowhere. This story could be a take on how AIs do not understand humans, especially their individuality.
3. I do not think there is any cytonic communication between the bridge and engineering on the Weights and Measures. Spensa thinks there is because she can hear the talk cytonicly, but we get a scene where they talk about the commands actually coming over a loudspeaker and that the slugs are *mimicking* the speech cytonicly.
4. Speaking of mimicking, I like the idea of the slugs only mimicking screaming. I mainly like this idea because it makes me feel better about the treatment of the slugs. A caveat to this is like you said, it doesn't make sense that the screaming would be coming from inside the ship. A possible solution is that the screaming is a diversion, in that they scare the slugs, which scream and cytonicly jump away (i.e. making a lot of "noise" for the Delvers), and then a Superiority cytonic does the actual jumping of the ship.
5. Spensa most definitely was the cytonic part of her hyper-jump in Skyward. I remember thinking it could have been Doomslug, but during re-reads I believe it's clear that Spensa is the one connecting to the circuits and doing the jump.
6. I like the idea that Ben had that Detritus was basically an acclivity stone mining facility that was chosen to be the shell planet because of the access to Acclivity stone. This would answer why there is the writing we see around Nowhere portals is present on Detritus.
7. This last one is just a random theory, which is not compatible with my Theory A from above. So, Theory B: The slugs are baby Delvers. There is talk in the book about the Delvers reflecting (i.e. mimicing) emotions, and we know that the slugs very much so mimic those around them. So, it's possible that the Delvers are hearing the "screaming" (which is how Spensa interprets it) that the slugs are doing as something else and that's why they leave them alone. This theory was brought up on the forums, and I think it's something that could be accurate.

Lastly, Theory C: The Delvers are just the Delvers, and don't have an origin tied to any of the existing species we know of.

I didn't understand the debt explanation either, but your talking about it made me think of a possible explanation that makes sense to me.

They call it a "debt", but if you think about it more like a savings account (because it does earn interest) then the in book explanation makes sense. So the merchants are keeping an account for the Sand Masters, which the Sand Masters can call upon whenever. However the merchants don't actually have that much money (or it's a sizable amount of their wealth). So when Vey is giving his personal money to the Sand Masters, they're turning around and depositing it the account, which raises how much interest needs to be paid (thus making the "debt" ever increasing).

Definitely some logical jumps, but at least it makes sense to me now.

Hmm, for some reason I always thought the Allomantic Grenade had a Nicrosil core, supporting the theory that Nicrosil could store a single Allomantic power. But apparently that's just Ettmetal?

I do like the theory that Feruchemical Nicrosil can stores a single Allomantic power (as Investiture) and then you can burn that to get a supercharge of the stored power.

On 1/28/2019 at 0:31 PM, Spicker said:

This has probably been discussed or answered somewhere, but what happens when you take a spike and split it into two before spiking the recipient? So for an example, when spook gets spiked by the shard of metal that gets stuck in his body, could the remainder of the sword still have been used to spike someone or did spook basically use the power up when he was spiked?

If you split a spike from one donor and attempt to spike two recipients, what would happen? My guess is that both shards of a split spike have the potential to transfer powers until whichever one spikes a recipient first (kind of like a schrodinger's cat situation). What are your thoughts?

My guess would be that each spike can grant powers, but their strength is proportionate to the amount of the spike in each part (e.g. if the spike was split in half, each half would grant half the strength of the power it would if the whole spike was used).

Me, during the first WTCC:

Quick FYI: We already have seen another Truthwatcher: The Stump. That's how Jasnah determined that Renarin's spren had been corrupted.

My immediate thought from "there may be dragons hiding among onscreen characters" was Felt...

Which was immediately squashed when I searched for Felt WoBs. It says he was born on Scadrial and is a third son of a minor noble family.

To the point about fire behaving oddly on Roshar, I don't think that's the reason spheres are used. I originally thought of the vision Dalinar has with the Midnight Essences, where he calls out an oil lantern as primitive. But searching for lantern in both Way of Kings and Words of Radiance shows multiple mentions of oil lanterns in "modern" times.

My theory on spheres is that they evolved from gemstones/Stormlight. i.e. Stormlight was/is obviously important to Roshar. Gemstones can hold Stormlight, therefore gemstones become important. Very small gemstones become impractical (hard to count, easy to lose), but by encasing them in a bit of glass they are a bit easier to manage (because they are a bit larger). It could also be that encasing them in glass is the equivalent of "minting" money, in that lose gems have varying value, but a gem encased in glass has a specific constant value (depending on type and size of gem).

For the first one, on second clue I thought it was

On clue three I thought it was

I was surprised when it wasn't.

For the second one, on the second clue I thought it was

It looks like there's a Signup option. Are those new accounts, or are they related to these 17th Shard Forum accounts?

Obviously we don't need an account to search the Arcanum, but I assume that's what will be used if we contribute.