Eagle of the Forest Path
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Posts posted by Eagle of the Forest Path
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Thanks for the feedback LT. (My sympathies about the demotion.)
3 hours ago, Robinski said:I enjoyed the human relationships in this submission. The landlady seemed like a bit of a caricature, but an amusing one. Probitus’ thought process was more interesting since, at the base of his nasty behaviour, there is weakness and vulnerability, which gives the reader hope for his redemption.
My main difficulty with this submission was the amount of description. There is a great deal about the building that, for me, was not interesting. I think you could cut that down considerably. It’s a big building with lots of stuff it in, but at the end of the day, all Laurea does is got to her apartment and unpack. The description and background to her Dhe was interesting though.
I'll cut back on the description from now on.I'm on board, and interested to read more. Is Laurea more sympathetic? For me, yes, for the reasons that Mandamon states. But we don't know that about her at the start, so the first impression she makes is not good, imho.
Not making a good first impression is kind of in character for her, though.
But I guess that's not a good thing from a storyteller's POV.
<R>
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“reaching from the bowels below the waterline up to the highest reaches” – repetition
There’s a lot of description on the first page. I started skimming half way down, as I'm more interested in learning more about Laurea.
“The eighteenth floor was wedged between two levels dedicated to industry, but thankfully nothing that generated uncomfortable odours” – This strikes me a spectacularly bad urban planning, which is the industry I work in. I struggle to believe that any kind of modern society would build like this.
They aren't any kind of modern society.“could be even less civilized than the average drunken dockworker” – this is a rather harsh stereotype. I'm sure there must be some dockworkers who work very hard for their families.
That's true, but those dockworkers probably don't get drunk all that often. And in general it's a rougher crowd than Laurea has been used to. I'll change the simile, though.After more than two pages getting to the apartment, I was flagging considerably, but things light up with the discussion with the old woman. “I had to sign for delivery. I hate signing” – lol.
“Young people these days always have an excuse” – lol, harsh, but often true.
“Don’t mention you live here, though” – rolf.
“No surprise there either, if the bathhouse owner knew Praeparcior.” – You often explain things that it’s more fun for the reader to work out for themselves. I think some of the explanation is unnecessary.
I'll watch out for that, thank you.“cracked open by delinquent dockhands” – man, you've really got it in for the Stevedores Union.
Ummmm... it's Laurea who's got it in for them!
Not me, no sir! I swear.
“If Laurea had not managed to discover the perpetrator by then, the case would be marked in her record as an utter failure” – I think we could do with these stakes for Laurea being much further up, near where she gets the case in the first place. This would dial up the tension earlier, make it clear for the reader what is at stake for her, to start with at least.
Hmm, good point.On Page 8, there is a jarring switch to Probitus’ point of view, but you just need a text break in there.
“Until Probitus reminded himself again that was not who he was, then it was just bitter” – Something off with this line grammatically, I think. I had to read it a handful of times.
You're not sure? That's worrying, is the Grammar Stick busted? There is probably something off, as a matter of fact.
First the sight was gratifying.
Then Probitus reminded himself...
Then it (the sight) was bitter.
"Bitter" doesn't really work with "sight" in this context, though I'm not sure that's strictly grammatical in nature.0 -
5 hours ago, Kobold King said:
The immigration forms are hell.
Not to mention the sewage system.
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18 hours ago, Mandamon said:
pg 7: Aelura's shape: Not really distinct. I'm guessing dog or cat, but it's not clear to me. I do like that you show how a paper golem works, though. I like the fact that the pages are old and yellow. Are the brittle as well, like an old book?
It's cat. The pages aren't brittle - yet - the paper for patron Dhé usually gets treated with chemicals (lacquer or varnish etc.) to increase longevity. The current incarnation of Aelura has been around for about 80 years (but that's irrelevant to the story as I imagine it at the moment).
18 hours ago, Mandamon said:Pg 8: Yes, the break to Probitus is sudden. Maybe put in a section break? Also, I'm not sure he should be the focus here. You're telling us at great length what's wrong with him and how he's not as good as he was. I like where this will go as a setup and it builds Probitus as a better character, but I feel like it can be shown to greater effect.
Being prescriptive here, but what if you show Laurea's competence by starting to guess at these things?I don't have a problem with Laurea. I like her as a character, because she's proactive and competent, and I think those are enough to overcome any lack of sympathy from her. She does spend a lot of time examining object, though ;-)
Ready to read more, whenever it's available!
I'll remember about the section breaks when switching characters.
I have no problems accepting suggestions, but I don't feel that having Laurea guessing about Probitus' motivations at this point in the story would make much sense, she doesn't even know yet that he's actively trying to get rid of her, only that he doesn't seem to like her.1 hour ago, kaisa said:Overall
Possibly WRS here, but I don't remember why Probitus has this internal conflict. That is making his back and forth about whether or not to torture Laurea hard to follow. It also seems really sudden. I think a bit more of a work up on his internal conflict would help a lot.
I agree with Mandamon on the info dump. The first part was fine, and I was OK for maybe the first page. After that I had to force myself to keep reading instead of skimming.
Gotcha on both points. It's not WRS, I haven't gone into Probitus' internal conflict yet, this is actually his first POV.
1 hour ago, kaisa said:The shape: No, I have no idea what she is. At the first description I thought giraffe, but then the head shape threw me.
Likable: I like her in this chapter just fine.
Conflict: See both above and below. It feels forced and not well developed. I think it could be rectified easily with a bit more inner monologue work.
Shape: She's a cat, I should have added something about pointed ears, but I thought that would have been too obvious.
Likeable: That's a relief, to be honest.
Conflict: I'm considering that, but I need to figure out a way to do it without him becoming too whiny.1 hour ago, kaisa said:- page 3: not sure 'hag' fits with how you describe her. I get the picture of a fiery older woman, secure in herself. 'Hag', to me, means more screechy banshee lady, or witchy.
Ah, that's bad. I was picturing standard crazy cat lady in bathrobe with cigarette... only without cats, bathrobes or cigarettes.
1 hour ago, kaisa said:- page 6: cuttlefish, eh? I ready a really, truly, terrible book that involved gay male shifters and cuttlefish once....bad memories
I'm sorry to hear about your gay-shifter-induced trauma. However, on an ocean world, I'm not going to include heraldry (or sigils, symbols etc.) like lions, horses and wolves (unless there's a convincing in-story reason). So I'm sticking to marine life for that.
1 hour ago, kaisa said:- page 9: I'd like more backstory before Probitus starts his thoughts on why he wants to make Laurea find a new mentor. Right now it seems sudden, a little staged, and I'm not feeling invested.
I hope to work that into the rewrite. The restructured story will probably have Probitus as main POV in the first chapter (or the second, depending on whether I keep calling the prologue a prologue) so that should give me more opportunity.
Thanks for the feedback, both of you.
E.
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The village?
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I tried another writing prompt, and it seemed to fit a magic system I've been thinking on.
It doesn't completely follow the assignment, but what the heck, right?The assignment The Room
SpoilerOne day as you were cleaning you noticed air being sucked towards the base of wall near the cupboard. Perplexed you went closer to investigate. The air was going in, slightly yet in. You hold your breath and gingerly peel away at the wallpaper until a huge wrought iron door stands before you. Where does it lead? Did you imagine this? What happens next?
got turned into The Library
SpoilerEphran’s Library was unlike the ones Outside, where the ban on talking never quite eliminated the soft murmur of whispered conversations. It was completely silent, apart from the sounds Ephran himself chose to make. He strode through the aisles, enjoying the ring of his boots on the marble floors. His Library had begun as a single shelf-lined room, befitting the limited collection of a child only starting to explore the world of knowledge. It had since grown into a vast palace as Ephran had learned and experienced. If knowledge was indeed power, then Ephran was powerful indeed.
Usually Ephran spent his precious time in here reviewing and reorganizing his store of information, working on one scholarly thesis or another. Now, however, he had just felt the need to be in his Library, away from the distractions of the Outside. So he was idly wandering, musing on a topic of research he might immerse himself in. He was considering heading over to the philosophy section he had added over a decade ago and largely ignored since when he noticed the door.
It was large and forbidding, fashioned out of wrought iron with a heavy lock and massive hinges. Impenetrable darkness lay beyond, further shielded from view by an intricate grille of leaved vines between the heavier bars. Even though the metal showed no signs of rust the door gave an impression of immense age, perhaps because of the dust hanging in wispy webs from any edge it could attach to. It was not the door’s image that disturbed Ephran, nor the faint stirring of the cobwebs evidencing a connection to some larger space behind the dread portal. What was so shocking about the door was the fact it was there at all. Nothing could exist in the Library that Ephran had not created. It was simply not possible, he was the master of this place, the uncontested ruler over the thousands of volumes, the miles of shelves and even the structure itself.
Blood withdrew from his face, leaving it as grey as the hair surrounding it. He approached the door and as he stretched out a trembling, wrinkled hand to the latch, he imagined. Ephran imagined himself rushing into the unknown, imagined confronting whatever agency had interfered with the composition of his Library. Imagined… Feared… consequences. Blinking the sweat from his eyes, he saw his hand, still outstretched and trembling. He swallowed and decided. Ephran closed his eyes and stepped out of his Library…
And opened his eyes again, sitting in the chair in his office. His real body was sweating too. He was the greatest scholar in the city, some - and not all of them bribed by Ephran - even claimed him the greatest scholar of all the principalities combined. He had made amazing discoveries, disproved the most cunning theories of his rivals. He’d written dozens of books and countless essays. And now it was all gone. Because Ephran was never going back into his Library.
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Hänkel?
Von Schlesswich-Liebherr?
Franken?0 -
Hello again,
This will be the last chapter of JBM for a while, as I'm in the process of restructuring my story line.Once that's done I'll be submitting from the beginning again.PreviouslyIn the prologue we had a mysterious man hiring a priestess to summon a "paper golem" meant to harass a certain Burrus Clupean.In Chapter 1 Laurea arrives in Celsitudum, gets flirted with, meets her new boss and gets intimidated by her new mentor.Things I'm already aware of.- Infodump, basically the first couple of pages, sorry. I'm kind of overly fond of my setting.
- Low tension, this is why I'm restructuring.
- Run-on sentences, tried to fix that in this chapter, don't know if I succeeded entirely.
- POV jump, justified I think, we start with Laurea and then jump to Probitus in the last two blocks of text. It might bother some people, but I don't think it's actually a problem. Thoughts?
Questions.- Is Aelura's shape obvious to everyone? I couldn't just come out and say what shape she is, because that particular animal is unknown on Thalas, and the only quadrupeds they do know are rats and crocodiles.
- Does Laurea get any more likable?
- What do you think about the progression of the conflict between Probitus and Laurea?
Even though it's the last submission for now, I hope you enjoy.E.0 -
Awakening might not be so consistent after all. When Vasher mind-wiped the little kidnapped girl, that was most likely also a form of Awakening, I might be missing something but that doesn't seem like animating anything.
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Does that mean you could use a pair of scissors' Purpose, i.e. to cut, and use it to slice open a bank vault (or equally sturdy target) or split the atom? Or are there limitations you haven't mentioned yet (teleportation from any door you want already seems kind of OP)? Ahhhh, that must be where the Potential comes in?
What determines whether an object that had its Purpose taken is rendered useless or turned opposite? Is there a defining factor or is it random?
To use my scissors example, going useless would likely be the same as being blunt, but going opposite would make the scissors... glue things together?
Thinking on it, would a gun (Purpose=to kill) that went opposite be able to revive the dead?I really like your notion of Purpose, Intention and Potential (PIP for short?), you can probably do a lot with that in a story.
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The Shawshank Redemption?
Saving Private Ryan?0 -
3 hours ago, Straw said:
My magic system is a elemental magic system with 17 elements...
It's got options, but the idea needs a lot of fleshing out before I can comment any further.
It avoids the "4 classical elements + one more" thing, though, which can only be good IMO.I've been working on this system where the users extract phlogiston from objects (or substances) and insert it in others.
(real-world) Phlogiston was a theoretical element that was suggested in the 17th century that explained why stuff burned.
Because of some early-scientific observations, they deduced that phlogiston had to have negative mass.So for my system I have two linked properties that can be extracted from one substance and inserted into another (or the same one): flammability and mass/weight. When a magic user makes something less flammable, it also has to become heavier. If they want to make something lighter, it's coupled with increased risk of fire. This becomes rather more interesting when you know I plan to use zeppelins in the setting.
I'm stuck however, because I want to add one or more additional pairs of attributes that can be manipulated. I've been racking my brain for months now, and nothing seems to work. I've thought about magnetism, acidity coupled with solubility, but everything sort of falls flat after a while.
I'd love any suggestions anyone could give me.
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Léon was my first thought as well from "assassin teaches orphan", but I got stuck on the farm animal part.
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I'd like to submit another chapter of Jet Black Medium on the 20th, if there are no objections.
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In general, I like the story, and I hope to read the rest of it soon.
The Sureri dialogue is eminently readable, and it is passably believable.
The only (small) issue I have is that, compared to the vocabulary they use at first, there are some rather big words toward the end of the dialogue. "Viable" instead of "Good" and such.
For me, the amount of background on the universe is just right (now I only have to watch out for the 3 bears coming home, or possibly 3 Festuour).
LBLs
p1 -"worse inhabitable land", should probably be "least inhabitable land"
p5 -"wasn't no longer certain", double negative. Should be either "was no longer certain" or "wasn't certain any more/longer"
-"I need the money to move it."
p8 -18 hours, no more and no less. Why not less? I'd think the sooner the better.
-that "messing the floor" insult is pure gold!
p11 you need a full stop after "shop on Methiem"
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neongray
The first sentence is a giant turn-off. Calling out that she normally never thinks of this is just painting long and loud that it's shoving info at you. Same with the paired compound words in the first sentence. The poet line too is very very telly. 'In a world where' is, again, not great POV unless there's other worlds they encounter. I feel like you'd have a more solid start if you cut the first paragraph entirely and did something about the first sentence of the second; it's extremely bulky.
Well, she normally never thinks about it because she's usually inside the spires, meaning she rarely sees them from a distance. I thought it was justified, but I see your point.
Page two paragraph 1; past, not passed dawn.
Later in the paragraph you're already 'it was unlike her to' and this is the second time thus far, this is our introduction to the character, you don't want to be having her do things and go 'but actually this was not like her at all'. We should be seeing what she's like, not what she's not like.
I like paperwork, and I like bureaucracy.
You fall into the construction "(verbing aside), (main clause)" a fair bit. Nothing wrong with this construction in a vaccuum but it's coming up often enough that I'm noticing it.
I'll try to watch that.
Comma splice on Laurea's initial line to Janus; makes the phrase feel a lot more awkward than it actually is, I think.
'It was very recognizable' is kind of a cop-out. I feel like nothing would be hurt by the loss of that sentence.
'Laurea's raised eyebrow...' is a very very passive sort of description. You're tossing narration out the window once dialogue starts and your frequent drop of any sort of dialogue tags means there's a couple points on 3 where I'm just counting lines to determine who's talking. Not big on ending dialogues with '...' either unless they're actually trailing off midsentence.
As I go onto 4, I'm not buying the flirting so much? They're very rote lines.`
Haven't had too much personal experience with flirting lately, so...
These comma splices are a big big problem for me. I'm definitely more sensitive to them than most but they absolutely will pull me up short and they're everywhere.
Yeah, when I hit page 6 and it's all just untagged unnarrated dialogue, I kind of checked out until the scene ended.
Good point, I'll watch out for that
There's a couple points on 8 and 9 where the narration breakts to stress that something's Laurea's opinion; this is kind of unnecessary if we're using her POV because all of that should be a given. If we're using her head stuff being her opinion is the default state of things.
Page 11 on the sentence starting with 'Clupean was a' you dive headlong into a spliced run-on.
By and large you have me a lot more once they actually get to Laurea's workplace. I don't mind going on about the dhe so much here because it's relevant to the matter at hand but pretty much any time I hit a comma splice my train of thought gets lost. I like the Roman-esque deal, and I am a sucker for that sort of ritualized symbolic magic but the description thereof feels kind of shoehorned here.
Ok, glad you like the magic, will try to make the description feel more natural somehow
I'm still feeling like you c/should be able to just relabel your prologue as 1 and this 2.
Robinski
I was very interested to see how the story proper opened after your prologue. Here is my answer! So, on with the critique. Detailed comments below in my normal fashion. I have not picked out much on the grammar front because there is too much to contend with in the way of run-on sentences, punctuation and some wording, etc. That can all be corrected in the future, so I've tried to concentrate on story and character.
That bad? Apart from the run-ons, I always thought my grammar was pretty decent.
You throw around many terms at the beginning, like lictor, quaestor, etc. I don't know what any of these mean, but you assume that I do, so I'm still none the wiser. Also, the two fall into a very intense dialogue straight away, which felt odd to start with, but I'll run with it for now. Also, his repartee was rather cliched, I thought.lictors are my version of police officers (or constables where you're from), quaestors are detectives. I'll make that clear in the next draft. The clichés might be harder to avoid, I'm afraid.
In summary, I thought the pacing clipped along and, if I blocked out the grammar issued I could read through smoothly. I think you've set up a decent conflict with her tutor, and a sort of conflict with her suitor. I don't yet have a character to root for, as they are none of them likeable as yet, to me anyway, but I'm happy enough to keep reading as I am being entertained thus far.
<R>
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"but romance was a part of Laurea’s plans" - Did you mean was not in her plans? It sounds like that from the context.It was supposed to mean she intends to marry for profit someday, basically everything Laurea does is so the Celsior family (which is just her and her sister fttb) returns to being a major player.
"legal Academy" - this is my favourite hobby horse at the moment. You can't capitalise one of thee, it both or neither. If you are not referring to a single named one, it should be legal academy. If it was the Harvard Legal Academy then it's a single named example and should be caps.
It's... um... between the two? Thalas has 5 A(a)cademies, each one has a specific field that only they can teach (Law, Medicine, Engineering, Atramancy and Dhéonomy) and fields that get taught everywhere (like history and accounting). So if they say 'legal academy' (capitalisation pending) there's only one it could be. I wasn't really aware of the double-or-nothing capitals until your explanation, but in this case I still can't decide which it should logically be.
"If he’d asked whether she would like a guide, Laurea might have accepted, but to acknowledge needing one was not in her nature" - I like this sort of attention to detail and she certainly has ably demonstrated how stubborn she is. To be honest, I find Laurea annoying and rather presumptuous so far, and I'm hoping that soon she encounters some situation to show her the value of humility.I was actually going for 'arrogant', but I'll gladly accept 'presumptuous'. She will be getting some knocks to her ego, don't worry.
"This dandy was the almost legendary quaestor she’d decided to model her ambitions on?" - Excellent, in almost the next line her confidence is shaken by this surprise. I like you've set up what seems to be a conflict of sorts here really early on.
Again, I don't really know what this term fibula refers to, I don't think it was clearly explained when first mentioned.It's the pin that holds a toga closed. Think a brooch, but functional. I will add an explanation.
"in less than the time needed to cough thrice" - this is a weird and awkward phrase."Merciful Dhé, you’re a prideful one" - I agree, and it's not an endearing quality, but maybe that's what you're going for, of course.
"bringing in a person accused of harassment and yelling at them to find out whether there was any truth to the claim" - Really, this is their method? Or is this just what Laurea in her naïveté things quaestors do?I thought about using 'sweating them in the box', but that was too cliché even for me.
"She didn’t see his concern at seeing the pale shadow of the fiery young woman he had flirted with earlier" - I don't really get the impression that she is a pale imitation, only slightly deflated.I might have been exaggerating here.
"She would get the salting credit for doing it" - what does 'salting' mean in this context? It sound like it's being used as a 'cuss' word.Yup, other swear-words include scupperhole and (piece of) chum (as in fish guts). I'm going for a nautical theme;
FormlessFox
I thought the story read well I don't get hung up on grammatical perfection as long as it makes sense and doesn't make me reread the sentence. The dialogue was pretty typical beginning of the story flat character dialogue as far as the proud know-it-all introduction. Maybe instead of having her suitor explain the magic system have him take rose petals and turn it into a rose then back again and show instead of tell? I recently read plutarchs lives so I know what a lictor is but in the context of your story its hard to understand.
I agree with the comments about lack of tension (the world being in danger etc). I really feel like the prologue needs to drive home the main conflict to keep my curiosity satisfied. Also the detective mystery aspect was not really there as the case seemed pretty boring and had no real keep reading factor. The prologue showed the guy getting cursed but it was a "mild" curse... then our main character is on the trail and is not even curious/interested so why am I? You are really underplaying all of your conflicts.
So overall the writing does not bother me at all and I enjoy reading the story but I have no idea what exactly I'm reading. Would like to see some danger, conflict, dark secrets =)
I'll be reorganising the story to remedy most of that.
Good luck and keep writing!
Thanks, I will.
rdpulfer
- The first line strikes me as a bit too long - you could probably cut it down to the city-spires rising out of the ocean were an impressive sight. Otherwise, it buries the lead.
- Atramancer, questor, lictor. There's a lot of terms being floated around, and it feels like only the first is loosely defined. You may want to consider pacing your world-building in this section.
OK
- Why does Laurea ask Janus' name again, when he's already given her his first name?
Because he called her "miss Celsior" and she wanted to respond in kind.
As a side note, patricians have names that end in '-or', while plebs have names ending in '-an', so knowing a person's family name can tell you something about them.
- I like Laurea's interaction with Probitus the best so far.
Thanks
- It's an interesting world and I want to see more of it. I do think some terms need to be more easily defined, but I do want to read more of this.
Thanks
Kammererite
Very cool world building.
I think there are real world issues with rock spires exciting in a vast ocean not only in formation but in stability.
The engineering you described above for the shell city's doesn't seam reasonable to me. assuming the building material is denser then water it would sink to the bottom of the ocean and that should be a considerable depth that they cant use it for foundation (same with the ceramic rod foundation). Also sub oceanic currents would wash away lots of the material.
Ocean is used more in reference to surface area than depth here. The building material is a lot like wood (though it comes from huge, armoured fish instead of trees).
I'd like to get the science-y stuff at least in the same ballpark as 'real', I'm trying to find an engineer I could hash it out with... if you know anyone?
However as this is a fantasy i am able to look pass this and let it go with a hand wave.
World-ocean: This sound very Sci fi to me and tells me they have explore the entire world.
RAFO but there's something to that, wink-wink
Titles: I think you have to many titles to quick and with to little description. I have a fairly good memory but i had trouble keeping track of the different titles and which people they refer too.working on it-Does the conversation flow naturally?As mentioned by other the magic system convo while informative, was very info dumpy and seamed forced. I the conversation with her prospective mentor and boss flowed well.-Is there too much/too little description?I think you over described the opening but once on the spire i think it was the right amount.
Overall: I enjoyed it. Cool world concepts with what seems like an simple yet deep magic system. I like the mystery component although i wish there was a bigger hook.
Thanks, sorry about the lack of hook. (There are crocodiles on Thalas, a Hook should be possible)
krystalynn03
Hey Eagle,
I was pretty tired when I decided not to be do LBL’s last night, but I’m refreshed now, and on top of that, the keyboard key has returned to normal function, making it much easier to do side-by-side critiques. Yay!
- I agree that the opening line is still too long and doesn’t do anything to hook me in, not even visually. However, I do like the last line of the paragraph a lot, especially if it’s really going to be a defining characteristic for Lasila. Maybe you could consider reworking it slightly so that’s the first sentence…
You mean the "rise to fame" one? I'll keep that in mind for the rewrite. - “warren of bureaucracy” – This is a fabulous phrase. It says so much with so little.
yay
- “Probitus Senector was going to teach her everything” – Hm, again, I feel like the most important bit of information was given at the last sentence of the paragraph when it might have lead the paragraph and given it more direction sooner, perhaps.
- Shell towns…like Hoovervilles. I like it. Adds some real depth to the world without going on and on and on.
yay again
- “The first sight Laurea had of…” – I don’t like this line. It took me backwards when I really want to go forwards and it doesn’t seem to be adding anything to the narrative since you started the whole thing with a description. You could keep the content, perhaps, but maybe draw it in in some other more novel way.
I was trying to indicate the passage of time, there were several hours between A and B, a bit clumsy, I guess. - “bouncing down the gangplank” – Is she an upbeat, perky person> That’s what this suggests. Also my question mark key isn’t work now…so I’ll > in place of it. (sigh)
not really perky or upbeat, but she is excited about starting her career - Unique language is unique language. There’s not enough context to really help me as a reader to do anything other than think, “Oh, look. Fantasy language.”
- “just so radiant” – This makes me cringe inside. This kind of language is one reason I don’t read romance, but even for romance context, it’s probably over-used. I’d like to see you be a little more creative in painting attractiveness.
I'll be doing some writing prompts to get better at this sort of thing - Lictor, lictor, lictor – Considering the conversation is hinging a lot on this, I’m really feeling the deficit of specific explanation of what a lictor is more and more as it goes on.
- “beautiful young woman” – Gosh this is forward for strangers. I hope he’s trying to pick her up or it’s just weird or he’s a little chauvinistic…
Janus is a 'playa', I didn't write him with this in mind, but he's sort of like Adolin in that respect - “scared off any number of unwanted suitors” – This feels contrived to me. I hope there’s a twist of some sort involving Janus because I really need some right now to keep this from feeling cliché.
well, perhaps, but telling how would be getting ahead of the story - Symbols,etc. This still feels maid & butler to me.
maid and butler? - “a woman as skillfull and intelligent” – Yikes.
- “mute gesture” – gesture is enough
- “pause as Remissus” – Wasn’t this third limited in Laurea’s head>
- Same complaint when the Praefact “noted her haste”
- Dandy – this word felt really out of place amongst all the latin derivatives… AFAIK, dandies are a very 17th century thing… (etymology dictionary agrees). Granted your fantasy world can have whatever stylings you want, but having recognized the cultural background behind the word, it shoved me out of the narration and drew attention to the fourth wall for me.
.. well, there's 'fop' but I don't know if that's any better than 'dandy'.
I'd love to have a more Latin synonym, but the closest I could come up with was 'peacock', which they don't have on Thalas. I'm open for suggestions if you have any. - “first in her class” – I’m getting an unfortunate Zootopia vibe here.
haven't seen it yet - “fibula” – Again, I wish the narrator had clued me in to what a thing was before it was important.
It's a fancy safety pin, basically - “you’re a prideful one” – Gosh, that’s called displacing, Probitus. If you want me to see the arrogance of this character quickly, it’s working. I’m rather he turns into a Rex Harrison sort—proud and abrupt at first, but likeable afterwards, rather than being flat. I guess we’ll see!
I guess we will. By the way, are you talking about My Fair Lady, or did he get typecast in that kind of role? - “Fury Priest” – You already gave us this info in the prologue. Why repeat it here Isn’t that what you were setting it up for>
- “She didn’t see his concern” – 3rd person limited slip
Phew, that took a while!
Thanks again to everyone who gave feedback, this will be a big help moving forward.
E.
edit:
I'd never heard of the snowflake technique. Have you used it before to complete a novel? Maybe you could chronicle some of your experiences with it in the lounge? It sounds like an interesting topic.
I've tried it once before JBM, but I got hasty, skipped a few steps and ended up writing myself into a corner I couldn't get out of.
1 - I agree that the opening line is still too long and doesn’t do anything to hook me in, not even visually. However, I do like the last line of the paragraph a lot, especially if it’s really going to be a defining characteristic for Lasila. Maybe you could consider reworking it slightly so that’s the first sentence…
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Thanks for the suggestion Krystalynn.
I've got another chapter ready to submit - which I fully intend to do - and one I'm still writing. Re-inventing the chapters once I've got the complete story down is an option, of course, but I think not a very good one in this case. There's some issues in the story's structure, such as the lack of tension mentioned above, that would probably be best remedied by reorganising my timeline. If I continue on my current course there are still two chapters that have relatively little to do with the main conflict*, which is the entire first quarter of the book (I'd planned fourteen chapters, including the prologue and a short post-climax 'wrap-up' at the end).
The method I'm using is the snowflake method. Meaning I'd have quite a bit of material left for reconstruction even if the all text I've actually submitted so far goes into the trash (which I'm hoping to avoid).
Now it's on to earlier feedback replies in the next post...
*they are more relevant to Laurea's character growth, but as a reader that's probably less interesting unless it's mixed in with the conflict.
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I was going to joke that I did it myself because I wanted first-hand experience of police procedure for JBM, but decided against it since there won't be arson in the book anyway, so the joke wouldn't make sense.
found this in the paper, mine's the one on the left, if there was any doubt
Next time I have to do a job interview and they ask me what I think my 'best quality' is, I'm answering that I can laugh at my misfortunes.
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So I'm back from the worst _ holiday _ ever.
During the three days I spent at the Belgian seaboard, my car got burgled the first night (not stolen, though they did take my GPS) and then torched the second. And when I say torched, I mean literal burned-to-a-crisp, arson-for-the-fun-of-it, total-loss-I-need-to-buy-a-new-car torched.
Right now I'll just thank you all for the feedback, it really is much appreciated, but I think you'll understand that I'm not in the right headspace at the moment to address any individual comments.
I'll work through them at my own pace, though from a first quick look it seems like I might be better off starting over from page one.
If there's a flaw in the story's outline, sometimes there's no other choice. And if nothing else, at least I can salvage some of the worldbuilding.
Thanks again,
E.
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Thanks guys, I'll keep this in mind for the second draft.
In reply to Mandamon's LBL (since Kaisa's don't really require clarification)
pg1: This is indeed an ocean world. There's a single continent but it's pretty inhospitable. The spire people send out foraging parties to chop down trees and get some other raw materials, but they can't stay past nightfall (or something, I haven't completely worked out the reason yet). There aren't any real islands either, just large rock formations that form the foundations for the spires.
Shell Towns were originally shacks built right up against the face of the spires when population growth meant the entire population couldn't fit in the spire proper anymore. They kept hanging more shacks onto other shacks so eventually pieces of the Shell Town started falling into the water; the rubble is below the water line but the plebs (and patrician slumlords) build new structures on top of that. Since it's not stable at all and the building material eventually rots away Shell Towns keep collapsing.
So at the time of the story the spires' outlines are sort of like a tall box with a sheet spread over it. You've got the actual spire in the middle, with shacks clinging onto it directly until about a third of the way up, and the farther you get from the spire, the lower the Shell Town. Eventually you get to sea level where the shacks are likely to be old boats with walls and a roof, nailed to the street to keep it from floating away.
I'll try to come up with a more accurate description.
pg 8 she was indeed standing already, editing screw-up, I'd removed a section where they sat down for a bit.
Thanks for the input.
PS starting tomorrow I'll be on a short vacation with doubtful internet connection, so no offence is meant when I don't immediately reply to any further feedback.
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Hello again,
Here's the actual first chapter of Jet Black Medium.In the prologue we had a mysterious man hiring a priestess to summon a "paper golem" meant to harass a certain Burrus Clupean.A note on names: I'm using Latin rules of pronunciation for character and place names.Basically C=K and V=W. So: Laurea Celsior => law-ray-ah kell-see-or.Special requests:-Does the conversation flow naturally?-Is there too much/too little description?Please enjoy.E.1 -
So you're hitting your readers in the face with chains?
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Thanks for reading and commenting.
@krystalynn: I'm getting a lot of people who dislike/distrust prologues, but I'm not quite ready to just delete this one just yet. I'm also not ready to turn it into the first chapter, because to me, this is obviously a prologue, chapter one being where the protagonist(s) is(are) introduced. You could call it chapter one, but unless the main characters are in it, in my opinion it's still actually a prologue.
Also, without this prologue I'd have to explain what Fury Priests are and what they do in the middle of the story, which means either an internal monologue, or having one character explain it to another. The first is possible, but I don't like it, the second would be completely unnatural, since everybody in-world already knows about FPs.
@FormlessFox: I'll rework the anonymous grudge-bearer's motivation (or at least, the motivation he gives the FP, wink wink)
The foreshadowing is a good idea, but I have to be careful not to give away certain things too soon. Best if I wait with the rewrite until I have the complete first draft, maybe?
The magic isn't actually about cursing people, that's just the use Fury Priests put it to. You can think of it as a blend between Roman household gods and (I weirdly only just realised this) Japanese Shikigami. You can set a Dhé to harass (or even injure someone) but the magic doesn't directly affect people, so sorry, no immortality curses. This should become clear in the following chapters.
@Robinski: Glad you liked the setting. I'll do some brainstorming about a hook and will try to make the masked man less of a non-entity (maybe if I play up the nervousness and fidgeting?). My goal is for the rewrite of the prologue to be a lot more suspenseful.
I'm already trying to work on the run-on sentences, but it's a struggle for me, please keep pointing it out though, it's a good motivator.
The wordy descriptions might be Robert Jordan bleeding through, I was (and am currently) reading Wheel of Time when I wrote this. There was a section yesterday where there was over half a page of tangential thoughts between Aviendha making a comment and Elayne replying. When I got to the reply, I had to go back and check what the comment was. Hopefully I'll manage to avoid ever doing that.
I'll take good note of your line-by-line when reworking this part.
Here's hoping Chapter 1 clears up some things for everyone, and thanks again for the feedback.
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There seem to be some open slots, so if there aren't any objections I'd like to submit on the 6th.
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Actually, on this one I think canals are viable.
It's a mountainous city, so canals would by necessity include water locks. When the water in a lock descends, that could produce a lot of noise, depending on how the water is expelled from the lock.
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2016-06-20 - EotFP - Jet Black Medium Ch.2
in Reading Excuses
Posted
Actually, they do have slaves on Thalas. But only as a legal punishment/criminal sentence, since they don't really have any space for prisons other than short-term lock-up. I worked out a whole thing, but it won't really come up in the story a lot. (I had a choice between slavery and corporal punishment. Now, I like a good flogging in my fiction as much as the next guy, but this way I got rowers for the triremes if I ever needed them.
)
The tech for spire construction is mostly dependent on Atramancy. I'm not an engineer (so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) but the ability to seamlessly fuse together massive chunks of granite should allow them to build some pretty enormous structures. If they can manage to find the right foundations, of course ... and enough granite.