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One factor to consider is that there are spren that are splinter of Adonalsium. The implication that I derive is that spren are a Roshar thing and predate both H+C. This leaves it as difficult for me to believe that spren are a particularly Cultivation thing. I can see the surgebinding system as an H+C system, where both H and C have spren that favor them. This works with the Brandon quote above, where I find your theory hard to reconcile with the above quote. The power-up oaths seem like an exclusively Honor thing, and I expect that an exclusively Cultivation system will have evolution and genetics. From Shardlet's transcription of the Seattle signing:

Interesting. I think that what slated Dalinar for execution was his effectiveness. If the Alethi were going to be well led, Mr. T had to put a stop to it. For one thing, it would be harder for Mr. T to be the only leader left. For another, a younger Alethi leader would be a more logical candidate to take over. Mr. T could have been reacting to Dalinar and Sadeas working together, but I actually think that he is reacting to the Highprince for War arrangement. I think Mr. T has spies close to Elhokar. I wonder whether he also has cryptics spying on Elhokar. They could even have seen the confrontation w/Dalinar and passed the information to Mr. T somehow.

Welcome! Upvote for first posting an interesting theory! The Iriali religion seems to work at the level of mere people (humans, dragons, maybe parshendi, aimians, Reshi greatshells, ...). Maybe animals are even included in the Many. In the cosmere, people have had investiture from various shards. Do the people and dragons on Yolen have investiture from Adonalsium? If so, then it could apply more generally. I do have some trouble picturing it applying to Shards though. Are you saying that Adonalsium voluntarily shattered? I imagine the shards without holders as more like forces than consciousnesses. I could see Honor+Tanavast helping start the Iriali religion. I was also intrigued by the talk of various homelands. If Iri is the fourth land, what were the first three? Yolen, Tranquilline Halls, Shinovar? If Yolen was the first, that might bear on what is implied by the One.

@Shardlet - thanks for indulging my curiosity The difficulty I had with your original post was that it has seemed that the Shards each had a fixed amount of power. If Shards can generate excess power by converting non-Shard objects, then their power would not be fixed. I was not suggesting that Odium wanted to destroy things, but building on the understanding that Odium wanted to be at a power level greater than any other being. So. if investiture is the power of a Shard, then Lift creating investiture suggests that Shard power levels are not fixed. If Lift is converting or transferring investiture somehow, then it would fit the "Conservation of Investiture" model. Your previous post seemed to suggest that you thought the "Conservation of Investiture" model was not accurate.

@Shardlet - I am probably misunderstanding something. Would you please help me understand what you're saying? It seems to me that Odium could then vaporize planets to gain investiture and become so powerful that no other Shard could withstand him. I've been assuming that Shards have a more or less fixed amount of power, which returns to them after use (unless invested). Do you have a different model?

Based on the following answer (from here), I do not believe that Shards splinter automatically. It seems to even be difficult to make them do so. QUESTION: The next question I have is does Odium have to recover after Shattering a Shard? BRANDON: It is a difficult process that is very taxing.

I like this! Upvote! I think the disconnecting the order idea is interesting, although I don't agree w/it. I think the surgebinding magic system exists and the Knights and the Heralds are two distinct independant implementations of it. I have thought that some of the Heralds would be redeemed and that Jezrien may have had a plan. The non-presence of the Heralds in the visions is really interesting. It does suggest that Honor has given up on them. It would still help for Dalinar to know what the real story is with them. Honor could discuss them or provide a vision of the Prelude. I guess Taln will be able to provide Dalinar w/some information. I do like the idea of redeeming some of the Heralds.

A consideration about entropy would be to consider the basis of the surgebinding system. I see it as an Honor+Cultivation or Honor based system. Entropy doesn't seem very consistent with their intents to me.

So many choices: bowler, stetson, ten gallon, but I think something with lots of feathers would be best. What condiments go best with a feather hat? Will you post a video?

Upvote on first post! Welcome! There are two things that seem relevant to me. In Starfall(s?), with the vision of the midnight essence and the Radiants, Dalinar mentions that Natanatan fell centuries before. If the fall of the country coincided with the shattering of the plains, then the shattering seems much later than I would guess the splintering to have occurred. I think Honor may have been splintered around the time of the Recreance, which was much earlier. Elantris spoiler None of this resembles solid evidence, but they leave me doubting that the splintering caused the shattering. OTOH, I have no better idea, so why not?

This is the best table I am aware of. Peter has more or less vetted it. There are two unknown orders in it, one of which is presumably Bondsmiths. Most people seem to put that in position 8, where many people see Dalinar fitting, but I don't know that it has been answered definitively. The updated synopsis thread seems to have the latest that I am aware of.

Interesting. I assumed that Prof was the epic that destroyed Prof's school. I thought that was part of why he was so reluctant to use his powers and upset at the thought of using his powers. Is there any evidence to support the idea that a different epic destroyed the school?

This seems very thoughtful and creative to me. Upvote! Some have long pegged Dalinar as order 8 based on the Resolute/Builder attributes. They seem to be both strengths, where he is resolving conflicts about being Resolute in tWoK. There is also WoB that the Radiant orders are human. These together with some character-building from the Eshonai reading and the synopsis point to Dalinar as a Bondsmith (order 8) and Eshonai as the Explorer (not a radiant order). These are unproven details and not central to your theory. While your idea seems interesting, I struggle with your premise that the radiant abilities come in opposing pairs. The oppositions you propose seem somewhat forced to me. You call Travel-Gravity a reach, then somehow decide the correlation is a safe bet. I don't follow. Is this fitting data to the theory? You connect Growth and Division, but it seems that Division (splitting things apart, presumably (done by Skybreakers)) could just as easily be opposed to Pressure (used to stick things together). There is some support for the idea that the some of the abilities (such as Pressure) can be reversed by the Radiants who use them. I like the ability, and it seems like a possibility, but there are two steps in the justification that I don't follow. I don't see any support for the opposing pairs of abilities theory. The specific oppositions also seem unclear or somewhat forced to me. This leaves the ability as a perfectly fine possibility, but without any textual support. Regrowth, for example, was used in the Starfall vision before the Lift interlude was released. If you could cite an example of someone using the ability in the text, it would strengthen your case. Another way to support it would be to show how it exists in other magic systems. Brandon has gone on record as saying that certain abilities will be achieved in different ways across magic systems as we have seen with flying and illusions. This ability does not seem to be shared with any Cosmere magic systems. You could maybe make that argument using Steelheart (which is non-Cosmere), if you are familiar with that. If you do, please hide Steelheart references with spoiler tags.

I interrupt this thread for a brief announcement. As Thread Curator I am obligated to remind you of this thread. You may now resume your regularly scheduled speculation.

I wonder whether the first issue could benefit from some more analysis. The issue, as I see it, is that Lift is described as converting food to stormlight/investiture, but even a Shard can only move investiture around, not create it. Now, the food from the planet may be slightly invested, but it doesn't seem like there should be very much investiture in a random dinner roll. I wonder whether the solution is in the Nightwatcher's intervention. We know that Lift can touch spren, which Wyndle finds surprising. Wyndle thinks that this means that Lift is linked to the cognitive realm. Maybe the Nightwatcher messed with Lift's SDNA, allowing her to exchange the food for investiture from the cognitive realm using her unique connection to the cognitive realm. Another possible solution lies in her developing surgebinder/Radiance. It is not clear to me that the Radiants had to rely exclusively on stormlight left over from the last highstorm. What if Radiants are able to access stormlight more directly? Maybe Lift is doing this somehow. The huge surge of stormlight that Kaladin experienced when he spoke the second oath was not from gems or a highstorm. Where did it come from? What else is accessible to advanced Radiants?

This is an interesting question. Apparently there are cryptics around him and his killers at the Palaneum. So that would suggest a bond. But his POV has no reference to spren, which would suggest not. Sure will be interesting to find out.

Excellent point. There are some fixes, but your thoughtful approach helps me understand other issues. Is the Returned a person? If not, then the power of Adonalsium (the divine breath) could have "attained" the self awareness from the previous occupant of the body sent by the Shardholder. If the Returned is a person, then look at the definition. It says that it is a term from "certain people in the cosmere". Maybe the "certain people in the cosmere" haven't run into the Warbreaker world. If they meet people from the world of the returned, they will refine the definition. Who are these "certain people in the cosmere, anyway? The 17th Shard? The Elantrians? Shardholders?

Or the Chekhov's gun could just be a Chekhov's gun.

Priceless!

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe that there is WoB to the effect that bonding spren like Syl "are" splinters I used to believe that based on some old interviews. But consider this definition: Where is the self awareness of the Aon inside a Seon? Where is the self-awareness of the breath inside a Returned? We have had Lightsong POV and I am not aware of any consciousness other than Lightsong's. Until we get a POV from the Returned superBreath or word of Brandon, I don't know that it has self-awareness. I can't prove that it doesn't, but I now have an open mind to the idea that the Returned and Seons are splinters.

My understanding of splinter has been based on the idea that Seons are not splinters, but the Aons inside them are. With the recent definition and the idea that spren are splinters, it seems to me that Seons may "be" splinters, despite the old interview where Brandon said they are not. So it may not be a new definition to you, but it seems like it to me. Does that make sense?

@Shardlet - Thanks I appreciate your clarification. It could save me from quoting the idea and looking even more foolish than normal. I can imagine H+C coming from the tranquilline halls, terraforming Shinovar as a starting point for humanity and seeding some highstorm-protected city locations with formations that do not seem natural. They would be using at least Shards of A. I'm still not clear whether those are the same as dawnshards. It seems like all these dawn-things could be fundamentally related as you say, but it also seems like the dawn prefix could just mean prehistoric. The pre-Radiant Desolations seem like they would reboot society and destroy knowledge of history.

As you wish From here: It just seems to me that the Seons have self-awareness, but I don't know about the Aons inside.

Another place mentioned also has associations w/the Radiants. The way of Kings was preserved along with songs in Dawnchant among the Vanrial at the Silent Mount in Jah Keved. My personal preference is that it is in the serious mountains in central Roshar, not in any of the Silver Kingdoms. Another random point is that Urithiru is known as the "tower city", "crafted by the hands of no man" in one reference. It is interesting that Kholinar exists in the Nohadon vision. If it was made by Dawnshard, a question is whether Urithiru existed before the Radiants. The Radiants seemed to be involved in placing it, and the stability of the Silver Kingdoms was presumably an effect of the Radiants effectiveness. The implication would be that the Dawnshards were used to create Kholinar and again, much later, to create Urithiru. It also seems possible that Urithiru was not created using Dawnshards and Jasnah was just deflating Kabsal (not that I would bet on it). @Shardlet - I just searched and couldn't find where the Dawnshards are associated with the creation of the dawncities. I had assumed that they were both from the "dawn" of time in Roshar. Could you please help me out with the source for the dawnshards creating the cities?

I believe there is WoB that Seons did not exist before the splintering of Devotion. I am aware of the famous quote about the Aons being splinters, but not the Seons. I wonder whether the definition of splinter has evolved, and whether Brandon would say the same thing if he were asked again today. Based on the definition of splinter he offered at the Seattle signing, it seems like he might now say that Seons are splinters.