hoser

Communication would be quite useful for Radiants, IMO, and could explain the comment about hearing him. Since it seems relevant, I will take the liberty of quoting from a previous post which cites other evidence from the Starfall vision: Actually, there is evidence for remote communication in the Midnight Essence vision (Chapter 19): Quote and Quote The second quote, in particular, seems to be describing a remote communication in real-time. Does the remote communication ability come from the armor, is it an ability of all radiants or is specific to certain orders? I don't know, but the Stoneward woman doesn't seem to be using a fabrial.

Thanks. Although my terrible memory says that he said that he wasn't as good as Cultivation at seeing the future, rather than not being any good.

If the artwork from WoR is not enough for you, crem is described as sludgy brown in chapter 16, and the rock inside the mountain where Shallan is staying is described as brown in chapter 42.

Do you have a source for this? I knew he was around when the Heralds packed it in, but my ever-worsening memory seems surprised by this.

Based on the WoR art revealed so far, something between tan and olive: about like this.

Sure, but are you then using the surge to modify the shape? Or is it whatever you do to the object after softening it that modifies the shape? If you make it harder, that will sort of be the opposite of modifying the shape. I didn't until you pointed it out. ... Uh, thanks? I guess the fabrial that implements the surge would be quite valuable in this world.

Welcome! Please have an upvote for delurking! One factor to consider is that this was once Natanatan, one of the Silver Kingdoms dating back to the Radiant era. In the Starfall vision (which also occurs in Natanatan) Dalinar mentions that Natanatan fell centuries before. There is a New Natanatan offshore currently. Natanatan must have had one city that was presumably not Urithiru, if not more. Purely guessing, having population centers experiencing the unleashing of great magic could be a reason for the survivors to relocate and the kingdom to fall. Still, the plains could have shatterred independently of the kingdom falling, or any of a number of other possibilities. While I love to connect the few events we know about, it is clear to me that there are many trigger events that we know nothing about.

This just screams "Dalinar at the Tower battle" to me. That is where he starts to act decisively. Interestingly, he gives up a Shardblade, but may be becoming more strongly a Radiant. Giving up a Shardblade was also significant in the early evolution of Syl and Kaladin's relationship.

That seems like a very interesting pattern. I like it!. I would like to add a few thoughts. IIRC, there is word that Gravity is somehow a spiritual attribute, so it might be that what you are calling Physical Realm changes are achieved by making changes to the spiritual realm and the Cognitive Realm surges are achieved by making changes to the Cognitive Realm. Learned, which might be the most cognitive attribute, is associated with Palah and on the "edge" of the Physical/Spiritual side. It is opposite pious, maybe the most spiritual, associated with Ishi, which is on the other "edge". I can convince myself that some of the lower surges relate to Cultivation (Transformation, Growth, Division), so Top=Honor, Bottom=Cultivation might be an additional way to look at the chart (please note the word additional, as I do not mean to suggest this as an alternate, but rather a supplement to the original idea). Minor nitpick: I believe the surface tension surge might allow one to modify the stiffness of an object more than the shape.

Nohadon was king in Kholinar and windrunners are the order that specializes in leadership. It is not inconceivable that the Kholins are descended from Nohadon. I assume that Jezrien and his daughter were selected as Heralds at the same time, and long before Nohadon was born. It seems like Jezrien could have fathered some ancester of Nohadon's before, if not after, he became a Herald.

It becomes circular if we don't know for sure that spren have been killed, or if said hypothetical deaths resulted from the breaking of the bonds. For living ideas, the loss of cognitive function that Syl seems to have experienced could be quite frightening. If someone has evidence that spren were killed beyond Jasnah saying they may have been killed, I would love to see it.

On reflection, there are two quotes that may be particularly revealing about Jasnah's POV: “Though at times he lacks foresight, Adolin has a good heart—as good as that of his father, who may be the best man I have ever known. ...” The best man, but clearly not the best person? “The idea of being beholden to another, particularly a man?” Being beholden to a man is worse than being beholden to a woman?

This was inspired by a similar thread by Bloodfalcon in the non-spoiler forum, so credit him with some of the value (if any) of this post. Any failings of this post, on the other hand, belong to me exclusively. Edit: Aand there are failings ... As Aether pointed out below, the timelines do not match. Gavilar was assassinated 5 years and 8 months before the main events of tWoK. At the end of tWoKTaravangian says the death rattles started 7 years earlier when Gavilar investigated the Shattered Plains for the first time. So there must have been a year between when he first investigated the plains and his assassination. Whatever Gavilar did the day of his assassination could not have triggered the death rattles because they started a year earlier. Gavilar destroyed a barrier that had been in place between spren and men, the cognitive realm and the physical. With the barrier down, the spren are trying to communicate with humanity by giving dying people ideas that they then speak. The reasoning follows: Gavilar told the Parshendi he was going to do something. It scared them so much they had him killed. Gavilar claims to have already done something to Szeth. Mr. T claims the death rattles started at about the same time: "We do not know why some speak when others do not," Taravangian said. "But the dying see something. It began seven years ago, about the time when King Gavilar was investigating the Shattered Plains for the first time." People seem to be bonding spren pretty frequently. Jasnah says: "The old ways are returning, and I don’t see it as a hopeful sign. It’s an act of self-preservation. The spren sense impending danger, and so they return to us." Jasnah had a forceful encounter with her spren the same night Gavilar was assassinated. The Radiants abandoned their weapons and their role along with presumably their oaths and Nahel bonds Darkness claims Surgebinding will bring on a desolation This leads to the prefatory theory: Gavilar destroyed a barrier that had been in place between spren and men, the cognitive realm and the physical. But why do the dying people see things that seem significant in the death rattles? Jasnah suggests the spren sense the coming desolation and want to help avert/survive/prepare for it. The spren are choosing important thoughts and presenting them to the dying to be expressed. But how does that work? I haven't a clue. But hopefully this will help inspire an idea that replaces or enhances it. Enjoy!

Moogle has really made the point that I will just expand: some of the quotes are definitely not heralds. Consider the following taken from Cheese Ninja's compilation. The dying person Would seem to be a Radiant the dying person You have sparked an idea that I can't discuss here.

I love it! It seems to fit with the Purelake subsiding and the whirlpool where the Wandersail went. The whirlpool could feed deeper currents that bring the water back towards the Origin. I'm not saying the physics works, but poetically it sort of makes sense to me.

I've suggested "Communication" in the past. It would be useful to help the Radiants coordinate. I have argued that it is happening in the Starfall vision and the Stoneward seems to be doing it without a fabrial. It wouldn't need to be a surge though, as the spren might be able to facilitate it or it could be an enhanced ability of the plate. I agree with The Count that flexibility seems to overlap "Surface Tension" functionality. "Strength" is interesting, as it has an analog in the Mistborn series and Dalinar, who is suspected of fitting order 8, seems to demonstrate it in the Chasmfiend scene. As this is not the Words of Radiance subforum, I would like to see references to WoR content inside spoiler tags. It's not a problem for me personally, but want to maximize everybody's fun.

Or that's the negative projection I leaked. I apologize. The hallway went dark when the spren projected her into Shadesmar, so I assume that the spren drained the stormlight to move her to Shadesmar. That might have implications ... Did Shallan's spren need stormlight in addition to a truth to project her to Shadesmar? Good point. She definitely willed that to move. And, double-checking, you are right in the case of the palace too. Thanks for your patience with my obtuseness. I'm at a loss myself. I was proud of my thought about spren janitors moving beads around, but it was not a serious suggestion. Some things are spiritual, I think. Gravity might be a spiritual aspect, in which case one is changing that aspect of the object's soul. I have even less of an idea about what that means.

Thanks for the thoughtful answers! I don't know if the upvotes got recorded, as I got an error that I hadn't seen before: But you have upvotes somewhere in the cognitive realm. Excellent! I never would have thought of that. So there is no air, she's not actually breathing, but she thinks she is because she thinks she has to? Did she will the palace to form or did she just empower it and it formed the only thing it knew how?

Thanks for the quick response! So the palace bead is in there, as is the hallway bead. When Jasnah gives a particular bead investiture(?), it imposes it's model on the beads around, which temporarily adopt a projection of it's form. If she had grabbed the hallway bead, the palace bead might have been incorporated in a model of the hallway. I assume that all her gems are dun at the end of her adventure. No particular theory. I am just used to seeing you commenting on how your theories are vindicated. I tend to ignore the more abstract questions. This seemed like the sort of thing you might have already figured out given your understanding of Forms, spren and other things realmatic.

Yes, I know that Kurkistan figured this all out and posted the solution years ago. But I still have questions, and I'm not smart enough to understand what he wrote anyway. 1. What was the not quite the sun, not quite the moon thing in the sky that Shallan drew? Heaven? The sun for real? 2. How can there be air in the cognitive realm? I could see that your body in the physical realm needs to breathe, but why is air not a bead in the cognitive realm? If we think about the air in the cognitive realm, do we create a cognitive realm of the first cognitive realm? Is there air in the cognitive realm's cognitive realm? 3. Physical location correspond to locations in the cognitive realm. Jasnah can grab the palace bead when she is in the palace. But the beads go flying around. In the physical realm the relative locations of the objects that correspond can't be changing similarly. Do the locations not have to correspond? Do the beads find their way back to where they're supposed to be? Are there spren janitors that put them back where they belong? But the Palace bead should encompass countless other beads to match up. When it is a little bead itself, how can it be in the corresponding location? Have some beads gotten put in remote places relative to their physical neighbors? Help!

"Old" Gavilar? Elhokar's infant son is my bet for "Young" Gavilar. Calling it. Welcome shadewolf! Have an upvote for joining us! Wildly speculating: Forceful matchmaking involving Jasnah Navani attempting to restrain Jasnah's travels. Edit: add welcome

This. And the Stoneward in Starfall vision seems to infuse. As she is order 9 and Kaladin is order 1, it is not just two adjacent orders. The following is what I don't get from the OP. We don't know that the Radiants even mingled with the general population after the Recreance (the lack of explanation for their actions could suggest otherwise). They could have just wandered up to the Silent Mount in Jah Keved, formed the Vanrial community and dedicated themselves to keeping the Way of Kings and the dawnchant around. If picking up a Radiantblade made the eye color change, then it would make sense that the ruling class would be light-eyed and have all the Shardblades. If the lighteyed people have no Shardblades and those who have Shardblades have darkeyes, I don't see how the lighteyed nobility gets established and has all the Shardblades. Particularly when the Radiants are reviled for betraying mankind. What am I missing? Edit: added "and has all the Shardblades"

I'm not sure if the quote I'm offering is what Darnam is referring to. Your wish ... From Chapter 71, where Szeth meets Mr. T:

I have thought that Jasnah was more interested in women than men before. The strength of her reactions as highlighted in the OP is actually the best evidence I see for her being interested in men. The "It would never happen." and her not saying a word to Amaram, who she had apparently known for a long time, seemed to indicate a history and maybe even an emphatic rejection.

The Recreance as the main betrayal makes sense. While possible, I don't see that spren were killed, per se, at the Recreance, or that the Knights had some sort of civil war. What do the spren make of Darkness' activities? I believe that Shardblades may be able to kill spren. Is Darkness going after the spren as well as the surgebinders?