STINK

How nice of you to put the three things I'm going to talk about in order, in your post. So, Alv's vote on me. I think we all know that it's just not a strong post at all. Even if we assume that I am actually evil, why would I do exactly the same kills? And it wouldn't be an IKYK, as it's just not a smart move anyway considering that. So yeah, think he just wants to throw another vote on me for some reason. STINK not saying anything - Yeah, I wasn't getting involved in the mess that was the D1 lynch. Also there's no point for me to get involved in the D1 lynch when I go to sleep like 5 or so hours before rollover, so miss out on all the fun bits of a D1 lynch. Orlok - Didn't actually vote for Alv, for one. Also, would have reasoning even if he did. Also Doc, what's with the 'spectator on the side' stuff? You could have tried to stop the 'illogical' lynch if you wanted to, but instead you wait for the next cycle?

Ladric was not in the best of moods. He had been looking forward to a nice holiday at this Manor, hopefully avoiding all these other 'Guests', and it had been working well! No-one knew that he was in the house (thanks to arriving so late), and he hadn't gone to the dinner but instead had some food in his room. But now someone had only gone and died, and who couldn't resist a good murder mystery? For Ladric, the answer to that question was Ladric. He needed to get some good theatrics going though, if he wanted to truly shock and awe everyone. Maybe he could even get a loyal sidekick! It would all depend on the first impression though, so he stayed in bed for another few hours waiting for everyone to wake up before he announced his presence. Once he was sure that the time was right, he equipped his chainmail boots and walked onto the crime scene, not taking a break to look at the others but instead walking up to the body and simply stating, "Well, well, well. What do we have going on here then?"

Logic Magic? What's that?

STINK sat down on his chair, turned on his desktop and opened his pack of salted sunflower seeds. After that, he did some stuff that you don’t need to know about, but it ended up with reading the same thread you’re currently reading. The first unseen post was by Hael, but more specifically this one: “I know that I've usually had multiple ideas for games at any one time, with varying levels of complexity, and I was under the impression I'm not unique in that regard. If that's true of many people, I don't think people will mind too much if they can't run some of their wilder ideas. I guess that's more something which would need to be surveyed. I'm aware that the mods are busy people, but I don't view the ideas I've suggested as anything you really have to monitor. If a rule is written out somewhere, there's a PM full of players who GM - they are just as able to say to someone who wants to GM "hey awesome. Have you checked out this link? It's got some helpful hints and tips for creating and running games, and some guidelines for how the game should work." If they choose to ignore all that, when it comes their turn to GM, you don't have to give them the go ahead to run their game until it's fine. I guess that last bit could be time consuming- curious, when people sign up to GM do most people keep to running the game they had in mind at the time? The other time consuming part of the process is the designing and writing of rules/guidelines/articles. But that's what this discussion is for. And I would be happy to help work on writing drafts of that stuff, once ideas had been decided on, and it's quite possible others would to.” STINK read this, and thought of the following things while reading: Hael is indeed not unique. Complicated games are over-rated anyway. People in the GM PM shouldn’t have to link people to the Art of Game Creation thread anyway, or was this taking into account that if it’s a post not edited into an OP, then it will eventually need to be linked as a post. I currently plan to run the games that I signed up with, and my QF was planned. As for checking the rules of a game, this has already been brought up but the mods don’t have to check rules, and other GMs should be able to check them before the game. Articles sound way more fancy than it should be for an internet forum game All in all, not many deep thoughts, but good enough reactionary ones. He was sure that the truly good thoughts would come at the end of reading the discussion. By this point, at least 6 seeds were gone, never to be seen again. STINK read Elenion’s post, and kinda mentally skipped over it. Sorry Len. And it was a post by Meta! Those were rare, or at least were before he made about 5 posts in 10 hours. Luckily for you readers, Present!STINK has decided to format Past!STINK’s thoughts, rather than throwing them all at the same time. “You see what you just did here? You prioritized winning over everything else. This is why things don't change; not because there's not enough rules and regulations in place. People could spend more time RPing or other stuff, but instead, the focus for the majority of people right now is on trying to win the game rather than having fun. That's a part of what made a lot of the earlier games so much fun in comparison. Sure, people were still trying to win, but there was just as much of a focus on interacting with the setting that had been created. That's why there was so much RP in early games in comparison to now. Now, if you're not contributing to finding the Eliminators, then you're doing something wrong and are killed off for it.” (whole colour scheme of SE posts don’t apply to this thread m’kay?) STINK read this and mostly thought that this is a content-heavy paragraph, which is always fun. He couldn’t be bothered to check if Meta was correct in saying that if people didn’t contribute they weren’t killed, so he just said it’ll be right. But on to stuff that STINK could actually comment on! First, “trying to win the game rather than having fun.” was a bit of a weird statement, after all, for some people having fun is winning the game! I guess for those people that don’t particularly care about winning the game then it mustn’t be fun for them. But STINK was pretty sure that most people enjoy winning the game, and at least want to contribute towards finding elims or killing villagers as elims. “You guys, the players, are dictating what kind of behavior and thus what kind of games you want via your actions. GMs rarely receive much in the way of feedback when they write up end-of-turn scenarios and no one interacts with their settings and events. Thus, GMs become complacent about even doing write ups as much as they used to. Everyone has to engage in the debates and investigation of other players or else be seen as suspicious and thus people that don't have much to say on that front (or are daunted by it) don't say anything at all; leading to more inactivity. The fact that everyone needs to be aggressively going after the Eliminators turns more passive players away; thus creating a breeding ground of only certain kinds of players.” Secondly, was Meta no longer playing SE? There was such a clear distinction between ‘players’ and well, Meta posting. But that’s more of a side-track compared to his three points. STINK could comment on the GM one, thinking that when he had GM’d a QF he had stuck to a write-up written every cycle, but that it took a lot of time. Was there feedback? No, but in STINK’s eyes that just gave him more freedom to write whatever he wanted to write. As for the inactivity, I don’t really see people going ‘give us your thoughts on this singular topic or you are evil’ often. It’s more of a ‘this person is either lurking or being inactive, so could you comment on a topic?’, then they usually respond with ‘oh I don’t know what topic to comment on’ followed by the whole suggesting a topic thing. And on to the final topic of aggression, isn’t Meta someone that aggressively goes after eliminators? STINK decided not to comment on the rest of the post, but instead move on as Current!STINK has realised that he is writing way more than he expected. So instead, know that Past!STINK agreed with the rest of Hael and Meta’s posts. And now Past!STINK no longer thinks, as we have reached current!STINK (who is still eating that same packet of seeds). ------------------------------------------- So yeah, there’s some truly meta-rp about the meta in response to Meta. Was 50 minutes spent writing all of this just so I could say that? Maybe. But I feel like it’ll help demonstrate my next point, that being that another issue with RP is that it takes time. If I was to write just a response to those two posts like normal, probably wouldn’t have taken me as long at all, but instead I spent more time thinking about how to phrase stuff as STINK looking back on STINK rather than just talking, and the same applies to games. And I know, some people dedicate an incredible amount of time to analysing posts instead of RP, and maybe you can go talk to them, but there are a bunch of times where I’ve made a post in about 5 minutes and I’ve only really had the time to vote for someone, short explanation of it and then off I go. So that post looks like I’m being aggressive and playing for the win, right? Also, the biggest problem with the whole ‘just let other people look at the balance of games’ is secret rules. So if we take a game such as LG26 where every single role is a secret and interconnected with every other role and needs a fair bit of balancing, what do you do then? In that case, just El and Nyali balanced as they were the GMs, and that was one of the most complex games recently. So there would need to be some people that could maybe look at secret games anyway, and be trusted not to leak anything and then not play the game as they have more information. Easiest way to do this would be through the mods choosing GMs that volunteer to do this to be on a pseudo ‘committee’ where they all discuss the game and stuff, as if being a co-GM is what allows you to balance, then complex games will end up with like 7 co-GMs. I still think that co-GMing into GMing with an experienced co-GM is the best option right now for anyone looking to run a game, and advise anyone who hasn’t GM’d yet but wants to run a game, to start asking to co-GM for another game before your own. The GM PMs are there for a reason! This is now 3 pages in a doc, so I’m gonna stop typing and let others respond so I can go back to my homework. Doesn’t look like I said much in here does it

This definitely sounds like something that needs to be added, 'cause well, nothing is nothing, and Inactivity is when you do nothing. So if they're really active in other parts of the site but not doing anything SE-wise, then yeah they're still inactive for sure. Surely this is where co-GMing especially helps? People are already co-GMing to try and get some experience for their first game to GM, which shows them just how much PMs are involved in a game (the constant ding ding, unless it's a closed PM game), effective role distribution (after all, they're gonna be like an idea bouncing board for the GM, and can still contribute if they want) and game balance (the co-GM has to look out for stuff going wrong still). As for the rule clarifications in docs and PMs and the thread and stuff, it's up to the GM if they want the co-GM to do rule clarifications, but even if the co-GM just reads the questions they can still have a look at how complicated some questions can be when you just have simple roles in a game. That looks kinda hard to read, so TL;DR: Co-GMing is useful, helps people learn stuff. And as for the whole 'you have to be interested in GMing' thing, again that's an issue that can be solved by co-GMing, as co-GMing isn't something where you have to spend hours trying to set up the game and the fundamentals and all that stuff, but instead you come in at a later stage for some fine tuning, which isn't that boring 'cause you do it with someone else. So yeah, just a continuation of the whole co-GMing is good and stuff. And also, it's pretty much already a thing but it could be made a rule anyway, that first-time GMs have to have an experienced co-GM who can help them with the role distribution and balance. So yeah, not gonna add on much original thought for now 'cause I'd have to go hunting for it in the archives of FB, but just bringing up the fun that is co-GMing

I was certainly on my toes for some of the game

Oh no someone died who cares? Not me! I care 'bout this RP though --------------------------------- Greg Ronald was wondering where all these people came from. Who did they think they were? This was his house! Well, maybe not legally, but certainly emotionally. There was just something about the house, ya know? A certain buzz, maybe from the sentient armour around the corner, or the slivers all around the ground. Speaking of, how did the slivers get there? They definitely weren’t there 2 weeks ago, or 3 weeks ago, or even 4 weeks ago! Who was vandalising his property? Ah well, might as well try and clean up this mess. Even though it was almost impossible to collect most of the slivers he could see, and you’ll never read a description of the process he used (it involved outer space), just know that he did collect them. And they promptly moved to form a lovely picture, which I’ll try to convey to you. https://gyazo.com/52200233ec346a23b7ca5ed219e0e356 And yes, the slivers did label the picture for me. Doesn’t particularly want to make me continue writing what’s been going on, seeing as there seems to be nothing good whatsoever.

Quick to quote there, aren't you?

Ya know, it's quite annoying that you want no-deaths. They never really work So STINK will ruin your plans. Rae. So, those other 7 people looking at the thread, we all know a tie is not good, but you have say, a minute to respond. I'll be that kind.

^ That guy's Magestar, btw. Wonko. Guess I kinda have to, yet again. Appreciate everyone trying to kill me again and again and again. Almost like the elims don't want discussion on anything else. But eh, clearly what I say doesn't matter right? EDIT: Thought I'd already done Daniyah. EDIT2: You may know me as STINK.

Alright well that's a lot to respond to :/ Well, I can explain why I made that post about El if you really want Can't read Wonko's mind though Anyway, at that point of my post, the discussion was just poke vote stuff, and that was like the most boring, un-helpful discussion to read through for a game (yeah I talked about it too, so you know it's boring), and Orlok was like 'huh controversial stuff' and I was all like 'El does look pretty suspicious right? Might as well throw it out there in the time I have', so I'd like to say that you're reading into the timing of that post a bit too much, or can I say that whenever someone says they're suspicious of me now? You too? If I had to vote on everyone that I was suspicious of, it'd look a bit like this: 1. Sean (polkinghornbd) is up for a Get Rich Quick scheme2. Szeth-daughter-daughter-Neturo (Assassin in Burgundy) has a death wish3. Rumberry (Ecthellion III) has a hand glued to their face4. Doc (Doctor12) is criminally late to the party5. This could also be you (Clanky) Was Who Darkness Was Talking To.6. Svetao (Daniyah) is eerily cheerful7. Sherlock (Magestar) can't understand why the planet is named "First from the Sun"8. Nyali (Nyali) will rest when she's dead9. Stick (I_Am_A_Stick) is resentful of gingers10. Dr. Bres Kalei (Wonko the sane) is abundantly proficient at doctoring papers11. Third of the Storm (Jondesu) is proud of his heritage14. Charlie (STINK) is functionally mute16. Locke (Now Aman) Is Annoying STINK Oh, please don't take that literally Hael Still keeping my vote on Dani for now. So Aman, as I've already said, being suspicious of someone does not mean you want them to die, at least for me. Maybe it's different for you, but luckily we're not all Aman I had no interactions with El? Or at least, that I can remember to be honest, and I can't be bothered to look it up at this point. More like, 'STINK reminds everyone that he's already talked about the whole being new thing', and hopes that his post wasn't ignored/forgotten Lol why'd I even quote this Just to clarify, the previous posts you're talking about are the ones where not even halfway through the cycle I just say I'm most suspicious of el, based on playstyle instead of actual words, and the second post where I explain the playstyle? Ah yes, those bloodthirsty posts where I cry out for anyone and everyone to kill El as quick as possible. Could you stop tunneling? You know why pinch hitters aren't a perfect replacement for inactivity? 'Cause you can say stuff like this where the usual response is 'oh but what were you doing' and the answer is 'not playing'. Like all of the stuff you're saying looks good for the most part because all the stuff you're saying is basically with hindsight, and none of it involves you, so no-one should lynch you whatsoever and we should all leave you alive till there's just 5 people left and then they can analyse the stuff you've said. And ofc, you don't mention any other possible reasons for Mage to vote for JUQ over me. Maybe one could be the fact that at least the votes on JUQ did have some reasoning, compared to the rubbish that was 'I don't like STINK'? Oh, and you failed to mention that Doc defended me too, just not with a vote because apparently we only count posts if they have red text with them too now. You follow up on the whole 'the STINK bandwagon thing should be used against STINK' by saying that the whole STINK bandwagon thing wasn't really a bandwagon against STINK but just a bandwagon? And could be on anyone else like Alv said? Why am I even respond at this point. Actually that's a good point, you're just gonna find 100000000000000000000 more reasons for me to be evil in this, probably 'STINK why are you even putting in effort if you're not evil lel let's kill him everyone' and the merry bandwagon gang will come along in their little wagon eating the wagon wheels and all have a grand merry time partying while I get tied up in the middle of the road and run over. I'm done.

Dani, I think I wouldn't be wrong in saying that you really want me dead. But honestly I think at this point you're just tunneling, seeing as you're saying that JUQ (the person who was lynched) was village which should reflect badly on me, but I wasn't the one that started the lynch on JUQ, and was the one that first pointed out the bandwagon on JUQ. And before you say that 'oh but you joined the bandwagon', I can say that I didn't, because I clearly stated my reasoning for voting on JUQ, that being that he was the only person I could vote on to save myself (omg STINK how dare you save yourself how selfish etc etc), well I thought I was doing more discussion and I don't mind saying that I'd rather be alive than dead. That's kinda a hard paragraph to read isn't, have fun Anyway, seeing as it's C3 and everyone still seems to be focused on the things that happened around El (like seriously you guys get a new topic), so I'm gonna bring up some stuff from C2. Won't have official quote boxes 'cause it's from another thread and I can't be bothered to do formatting. Emphasis mine etc etc " People would be more willing to vote on you rather than Jond or Dani." - Alv in C2 post explaining his vote on me. Okay so this part is the most interesting bit to me, 'cause I haven't really seen anyone show suspicion of Dani yet (well, except for me but who am I to do stuff?), but clearly Alv was thinking of voting on Dani instead of me, which to me sounds like he genuinely thought that Dani was suspicious but didn't expect to be able to convince others yet. Presumably, Dani's going to have another interpretation, but I don't really see how it could be for the same reasons as a vote on me, because as I've said, no-one was really suspicious of Dani publicly so it wouldn't have been this massive thing with people defending Dani and attacking Dani, but mostly defending Dani. So yeah, I'm putting that as a quote to basically mean that Alv was suspicious of Dani. " If he isn't, my next main suspicions are Jondesu, and STINK. If he is, my main suspicions will be Alv, and Jondesu. In that order. " - Mage, in response to if JUQ is a traitor. So uh, just like how Dani seems to be gunning for me, everyone else has already noticed how Mage is gunning for Jondesu, and I have one quick question before I go on, but what are the actual reasons for lynching Jondesu? 'Cause I'm already looking at a bunch of stuff and don't want to look at Jondesu as well at this point, a man's got a finite amount of time. But anyway, apparently Mage is gonna straight away vote for Jondesu any minute now, and I'm willing to throw out the statement that 'If Jondesu is an elim, then Mage is village and vice versa', which never really make sense but in this case could I guess? Think I quoted this mostly to show another tunnel, 'cause we need to stop making all these tunnels. Turns out when you make a post over half an hour, you can forget some of the stuff you were gonna say. And I don't really feel motivated to continue this post now, 'cause it's lunchtime and I gotta make my chicken sandwich. Oh, also suck it Alv, mister 'we have no talkers' even though you're dead. Oh and might as-well do this. Daniyah.

I'd expect you to know why I'm never putting my trust in luck

I'll be asleep when the write up happens, which sucks cause I'm gonna miss out on last minute vote shenanigans, so yes it is likely that you're going to get your tie Alv. Which is more annoying than I can say with the filter.

Could we maybe not have a tie?

No song linked 4/10

Oh, btw I'm pretty sure that Alvs 'reasons' are gonna be meta-game stuff, so even then JUQ and DA won't be able to be like 'yo i get what you mean'. But oh well, if only I too could vote. Daniyah. JUQ.

I'll defend myself from 'reasons' and 'alv has intel' then will I? This is ridiculous.

Hey, @Rubix and @Chaos (wow that makes it look like I'm writing a letter) Kip and me were just chatting and he said that he was still mod-queued from what happened like a year ago, and is he still actually mod queued? If so, could you please take him off so he can post in SE again? (We'll take anyone we can get after all :P) Anyway, seeing as this looks like a letter, might as well finish it like one. Wishing you the best, STINK (Oh, and it's going in here cause this totally is out of the blue So might as well also mention that your painting kinda reminds me of Van Gogh and his sunflowers with the nice colours and all that, @The Honor Spren)

Sorry, next time I'll poke vote like everyone else, that sound good to you? I'm fine with being unsure, seeing as I start a game with everyone being suspicious, and if you get my trust, then congratulations. El went down the most, but not enough that I wanted her to die or anything, 'cause she always (well, usually :P) has good input on a situation, which is a reason to be suspicious of those that were suspicious of el (just a little) and even more suspicious of those that voted for el, and before anyone goes 'well then STINK why don't you vote for one of the people that voted for el etc', well I'm not 'cause there's no reason for me to, and I'd rather prefer that my vote goes to show something else rather than joining a bandwagon on whoever it is.

Clearly(heh) not keeping myself clear if I'm the first person to say I'm suspicious of someone, and being suspicious does not mean I want them to die and think they're evil etc etc, it's not 'you either want them dead or you trust them'. So yes, I was suspicious of El. Suspicious enough to actively try and lynch her? Nope, otherwise no-one would try and change their playstyle ever, which I personally think isn't that good 'cause I must have changed my playstyle about 8 times now or something. Now if you want me to vote for someone? Daniyah. See, I can vote!

This is indeed an online game of mafia, themed to the books To participate in the next game, just wait for the next thread to come up that has either 'LG29' or 'QF20', but I'll use the @ feature to bring you to that thread so you don't have to remember That game will have it's own specific rules and stuff, but I assume that I don't have to tell you the basic rules seeing as you have played ToS and mafia etc. Also, seeing as this is an in-game thread (where only people in the game are supposed to post), you should ask your other questions in the 'Questions and Answers' thread that is also in this subforum. Otherwise, see ya when the next game starts! Well, I had suspicions, but they turned out to be wrong I dunno about Jondesu, haven't really had time to look at anyone's posts in detail seeing as I was busy for like the whole of C1 and the only thing to happen in C2 is Jondesu joining a bandwagon, but that happens all the time.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my first post of the MR (or at least pretty early on) that the whole 'first time villager' thing isn't a valid excuse In fact, after being evil multiple times (where you have to think about what both sides of the game are thinking of doing), that should make him a 'better first time villager' than other 'first time villagers', if we presume that Jondesu is actually good and not following his norm of being evil. And apparently I still make posts disagreeing with Magestar when Mage is voting on someone else I just can't help it apparently.

Omg el died to what looks like a bandwagon! I know, let's all bandwagon on someone else!!!!!

Alright, so now I can explain why I was suspicious of El For the most part, it's due to how she says something along the lines of ' a change in playstyle is how you get eliminators' then follows that up by saying 'Oh my playstyle seems to have changed ' which felt forced to me, and by forced I mean 'Oh better acknowledge my changing playstyle so no-one can use it against me later on'. Which I think others have picked up on as well, so there's the main part of that explanation. And apparently I missed the votes on me, probably because none of them seem to have actual reasoning. Or are we counting potatoes as reasoning? I can't even be bothered to respond to that vote. Anyway, seeing as it's a tie right now, I'm inclined to vote for El, but really those votes on me shouldn't be there so I'm not seeing it as a tie but more of el is up for the Lynch, so I don't wanna add to that.