STINK

Just over halfway through the first day and 10 votes is disappointing? D1 is never gonna have loads of votes because no one wants to commit to a lynch. D2 and D3 lynch numbers are where you can look at them and be all like 'hm' but during D1 peeps just wanna have someone killed so they can react to it rather than making a reaction happen.

Pretty good vote tally for like halfway through the first day, dontcha think?

Because if they pretend to be independent then eliminators are less likely to kill them. Sorry to the villager doing that for explaining it, but apparently some people are anti independent this game.

I would think that it's much more likely that one of the independents is lying.

Well if everyone knows that the plan will fail, then no one is going to do the plan. I don't think it's that bad a thing to say.

Alright just read the thread and the main thing that stood out to me was Amans post where he was like 'STINK was so sure the plan would fail ' because it is a plan that requires most people to follow the plan and not have a malicious intent, but if we're not even sure about multiple different factions then we can't ensure that, thus the plan is basically dead. So yeah, I was pretty certain.

Yep and seeing as I'm obviously gonna say I'm a villager I just presume you're wrong because no one would say they're evil unless they can guarantee that they will live. It's not worth discussing the 'elim and pressure' thing because for you it's obviously a 'is stink evil' but I'm good so I don't have to worry.

Think he was more talking about what I used to post compared to this game. I 'attacked' him for the way he had acted in the PM. He responded and changed my mind. I jumped off. Odd, eh? Can't really say anything if you're already admitting you have a bias towards hating those posts. Quick question, and I honestly want as many people as possible to answer this. Is voting for someone because of weak votes a weak vote in itself? No, it's been me voting for what I see as suspicious and having votes thrown onto me. I'm not the one voting for you. First off I was pointing it out because this is a game where people deliberately choose what words they put down in the post. They don't go 'uh i think stink is dodgy' but instead phrase it in such a way to convince others, usually. So yes, I will stay aware of the effects that sentences are having. Also, the part you bolded was because Rae had already been like 'but mark can't manipulate!' and that is the worst thing to think when discussing any manipulation taken by anybody. And I'm not overanalyzing, but if you think so then fair enough. Again, you've admitted that you have a bias towards analysis. I don't see how I've misunderstood it. Sheep has said that because of my 'flip-flop' votes I can use that as a defence, so now if I was to use it as a defence everyone would be suspicious. So as an eliminator, I wouldn't use it, and as a villager I wouldn't use it in the first place. So as a villager, you shouldn't be focusing on stuff like that to catch a potential elim. Sure, I'll defend myself even though you say you're biased towards me. And I can't change your bias. But I don't know what I was doing this whole time people have been voting on me then. I thought I was defending myself, but apparently I wasn't? Yes, and I followed that train of thought, instead of stopping where you stopped. As seen in one of my replies to Magestar's points, I honestly think you should just disregard your point at this point.

I don't need to install faith that it's just a turn one thing. I get where you're coming from, with the whole 'STINK could backtrack with this precedent!' but then as you've said I would basically be lynched if I ever said that, because why would I? It's a situation that will only really come up if I'm evil and under pressure, and those two conditions will never be fulfilled. So yeah, don't need to put any faith in you. I mean, again the bandwagoning is actually pretty funny seeing as this is way early in the game, but at the same time the reasons for voting me are just eesh by now.

Damnit Sheep I'm supposed to be going to sleep right now and you're not helping Okay first off let's talk about the subtle manipulation again. This time the manipulation we're looking at is Sheep pretending he doesn't know what the 'evils' (could be evil independents and there's the game definition and stuff) actually are, because Sheep is good and wasn't given the name of the evils. I mean, it's not so subtle because it's just some reasoning, but because it's not said outright it's manipulation. And before anyone rushes in here like 'But this is Sheep we're talking about! He can't manipulate!' then all I'm gonna say is that is exactly what the manipulator wants you to think. Secondly, you're voting for me because later on I could be switching votes and end up with something that benefits the evils? Anyone could do that. It's not like everyone but me is locked into a vote once they vote for someone, they can also retract their vote and should. Right now I think half of my votes are because I'm willing to move on from topics and change who I'm voting for, which isn't a good sign for this game's metaplay at all. Again, before anyone asks just in case about metaplay, I'm referring to how apparently a few people don't like votes being changed, which could turn into a meta where votes being lacking and not often seen, which is not good. Therefore the metaplay in that situation would be to like never vote, and I like my voting. Nothing creates discussion like a good old vote on someone actually playing That would go in the sig but I think it's a bit too full now

Alright, so to clarify, you're main thing against me is how I was constantly switching my votes and stuff. So let's go through what I did. 1. Vote on Wilson, which was quickly changed seeing as I realised that she wouldn't respond and my whole first vote thing was to have a quick argument with someone. 2. Vote on Mark, with one semi-valid point about backtracking and phishing. In response, he posts, then I post, then he posts etc. There is discussion, so it is not a poke vote. 3. Vote on Paranoid King, because he has set himself up for backtracking. Again, this is after a discussion with Mark, so I didn't quickly switch votes or anything, but I vote on PK for my thoughts on what voting should actually be, and then Joe kinda backs me up and PK seemed to of changed his mind and agreed with me (and Kas' post about lynches). So, your main point about how I'm suspicious for switching my votes around and stuff? It only really applies to my first vote on Wilson that didn't cause any discussion. So I'd like to say that your point is invalid, but I appreciate how I'm the target on D1 because I'm actually active and willing to respond to posts like this. Okay, should I address the vagueness first? I guess I will. You know what would be really helpful Mage? Telling me what these 'key mistakes' that I made are, so other people that are villagers could learn what they should actually be doing according to you, or just so that people can see that you actually have a reason for voting for me other than already having votes. This is bandwagoning, because even though it's a third vote, it's happened relatively quickly and you haven't really given a reason. So this is actually quite worrying for me, seeing as bandwagoning is happening on D1 on a third vote. Secondly, I've done nothing helpful? Would you prefer me to not post and have a stagnant discussion about Aman's plan for worldhopping and then Straw's modified plan of mentioning who is mentioned in the GM PM to each person? I mean, I could've done that if you don't want discussion about people's thoughts on different players, which right now basically consists of: 1. STINK thinks that PK is being too wary about his votes and obvious, but PK has thought about it. So actually, Paranoid King. 2. Joe has voted on STINK because Joe had reasons for voting for me, maybe I changed his views on them or didn't but he said he'll stick with it because at the time he was the only vote. 3. Elenion thinks I am making useless votes, even though I have caused a discussion with my votes. 4. Magestar thinks I am useless and making mistakes. Woah, would you look at that? I'm in all of those different thoughts about the game! But clearly, showing that Magestar is bandwagoning is not helpful in the slightest towards the village. And no need to say you're sorry, 'cause I'm sorry if you're a villager and bandwagoning in the first 24 hours of a game.

Hey Elenion, being more specific might help. Maybe you could quote some of my posts?

So yeah, as you can see in the post linked, starting a lynch on someone and saying that you don't have an intent to kill is basically pointless, so I had to actually have some substance to argue against Mark before doing the whole 'this is how we do it' but that was a one off. Just because I vote for you doesn't mean I'm only doing it for a poke vote reason.

Quiet threads are fine, just not all the time.

What a great paragraph

Your vote won't generate any discussion though because you've said that you're voting to create discussion. I'd link the Kas post about voting but I'm on mobile, could someone do it for me?

So you think that Mark isn't capable of manipulation or something? In his like, very first game he managed to get everyone but one (gee wonder who) to think that he was good and just a newbie who didn't know what he was doing. Now he's just a guy who doesn't know what he's doing? Sounds like a useful rep to have, much better than being summarised as trolly and chaotic.

I dunno what my points would've been tbh, would've gotten something from a response post like I did with mark. And yeah, I've now added some actual more discussion and thoughts into the game despite my apparent nature to troll I was definitely addressing mark in my sixth point haha Also sure you can leave the vote on me, at least it shows that someone is willing to commit to stuff Paranoid King This whole 'i vote on the first day all the time thing' looks like preemptively throwing out an excuse for if you vote on someone and it backfires on you, tbh.

Alright. 1. Voted Wilson cause I had forgotten she was not that active rn and wanted her to respond so I could bring up some points against her. 2. Brought it to mark because I was actually suspicious of how he backtracked when I said lol to something. 3. Retracted because it does look like he was trying to phish badly. 4. Unhelpful? Have I distracted from any other discussion? I don't think so, but I'm glad that you voted for me Joe cause now stuff can actually get going. 5. ClassicalNeutral!Stink doesn't exist lol, I've only been neutral once Also, bit rude to say that I didn't elaborate on my third win con then say that I'm independent or evil, could also be good. 6. And to Mark, honestly I was basically being devils advocate so it wasn't that good

Na. Mark IV But at least people know how I'm gonna go about things know.

It's not even manipulation to know that asking for a goal swap that no one is going to do isn't going to give you intents of actions and stuff. All you got from it was me saying lol. I'm not painting you as a master manipulator, don't worry. Also phishing for info isn't suspicious yes, but it's how as soon as I said lol you were immediately like 'uh it was actually for this ' which is more suspicious.

Also, I've only really called you out in a game during AG2, where I was right. So I don't know where this 'usually' is coming from but seeing as I guess it says I'm right then sure you can roll with it. Oh, and I will be assuming that posts have a purpose this game, because everyone here does partake in the act of thinking.

If you really wanted to know intents, you wouldn't ask such an obvious question. Also you didn't even look at people in the world PM?

Appreciate trying to pretend like I've got a vendetta against you, though the application of that wasn't that good I'd say, so I'm gonna give that strategy a 2/5. Maybe someone will read it and be like 'I should listen to stink less he's obviously biased' when I'm not. Also, humourous afterthought doesn't really work if it's edited in, cause it just shows to everyone how you feel like there has to be the humourous afterthought, and are trying to downplay the situation. On to the actual new bit, but you say that you were just fishing for info like it wasn't you obviously asking for information in the hopes that someone would say something, then I called you out on it, and you're all like 'it was more for the intent ' or something when you just said you were fishing for info so what were you actually doing. Also saying that you're going to fish for info doesn't mean that doing it then saying you're not then saying you are is a valid strategy or anything. Can't even look at his previous posts not on this page cause mobile.

Actually just remembered that Wilson ain't gonna be that active. Wilson Mark IV Looked at what he's done and he's definitely given off an eliminator vibe.