Amanuensis
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I'll have to wait on a response from Bugsy about that, then. Expect a PM from me tonight so that I can talk strategy with you, as I have a pretty solid plan that involves Joe and you to prove who the last Darkfriend is.
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Is it bad that I don't want to be just as vulnerable as 90% of the remaining villagers? I would rather my extra life not be wasted for something so trivial when it's pretty dang clear to me that Aonar is Padan. Honestly I find it (irritating? disappointing?) that a player who is supposed to be 100% confirmed is also leading the village the opposite direction that we need to go. Also, I don't get how being open about a redirect makes him less suspicious. Hael is smart enough to know that if someone redirected his power they would bring it up if he didn't, which would bring attention to him which he seems to have been avoiding this whole game (why is that not a red flag for you?). Could that be because he was a Viewer trying to avoid being killed by the Darkfriends? Sure. I severely doubt it, however. Honestly I am pretty disappointed that I'm being lynched to prove I have an extra life when lynching Aonar proves Rubiks is innocent while lynching Rubiks proves Aonar is innocent. Seriously, why would I beg to be Detained if I was evil? It just makes no sense. I wrote that down on my list of things I found suspicious because I don't know Rubiks alignment or his intent. I know my alignment and my intent, so there's no reason for me to be suspicious of myself. I forgot that you're technically cleared of being Padan, so I guess there's little point in having you Thief-Taken. Humph. @STINK I guess switch to Thief-Taking Rubiks? Have we even done an accountability of every living players actions yet? Name Role(“claim”) N4 Action Sheep Whitecloak Detained Meta Meta Dreamwalker Detained Jaimee Ta’veren Redirected Bugsy to ??? Bugsy Unknown Unknown Joe Ta’veren Redirected Aonar to Rubiks Aonar “Viewer” “Scanned Rubiks” Stink “Thief-Taker” Followed Bard’s Scent to Mailliw Rubiks Aiel-Blooded Unknown Aman “Aiel-Blooded” Unknown Lopen “Aiel-Blooded” Unknown Elodin Dreamwalker Unknown Mailliw Unknown Unknown If everyone is what they says they are then that means that one of Bugsy and Mailliw is the Wolfbrother and the other is Padan. Does anyone know their roles? If so, have they confirmed them? Because if they both have than Aonar is literally the only player that can possibly be Padan. @jaimeleecee and @The Only Joe, can we get an action list from you guys every night so far, that way we can make sure every redirect has been accounted for in case one of you has been lying / having another player lie on your behalf to make you seem like a role your not? @Bugsy6912 and @Mailliw73 I don't suppose we can get a public role claim from either of you at this point? It's pretty much narrowed down that either one of you are the Wolfbrother with everyone else's roleclaims, so I don't really see the point in secrecy, and as far as I'm aware of there has been no indication of an additional role out there other than what we've seen already.
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@Gamma Fiend the cycle is ending in an hour and 38 minutes, right? If so, @STINK please Thief-Take Lopen and @AliasSheep please Detain Aonar as he's the only possible Fain candidate other than Lopen and Bugsy, assuming that Mailliw is what I think he is and Stink is what he actually claims he is. Also, just saying, but ain't it suuuper weird that Mailliw retracts his vote from Aonar right before Jaimee votes Meta for Mayor (making it so his vote would count extra and therefore ensures I get lynched, even though she's insisting she doesn't want to vote for me due to my role claim).
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Thank you for taking the time to write this response. I'm always pleased to get some genuine insight into the personality / character of a new player, which is often hard to do due to the intimidation factor of being a new participant of these games (I remember feeling overwhelmed myself when I first started. Took my fourth or fifth game to start building any confidence, and that was only after I started playing Town of Salem, too). Anyway, I admit I am indeed assuming a lot of things. I don't really know much more than anyone else (I literally posted the table I built from my notes, which showed everyone all of the information I had, organized neatly into little boxes). I just like to think that I have played enough of these games to make some accurate predictions based off of the info that I do have, and knowing without a doubt that lynching me is a waste of time encourages me to fight to prevent us from making that mistake. I personally would rather not us not be manipulated by the Corrupted, which is exactly what I think is happening right now with all this opposition towards me and my ideas.
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Well, I'm actually assuming Padan can only convert 3 people. And that's based off the fact that anymore than 8 eliminators in a game of 27 players is unheard of. This is a subject many people have discussed before and the general consensus is there's 4 Darkfriends and a Padan with 3 Corruptions (just like the last run of this game) or there are 5 Darkfriends and a Padan with two Corruptions.
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On D1 you show up towards the end of the turn and the first thing you post is answering Sart's question about whether or not a Day 1 lynch is a good idea. Seemed weird to me because so much more important discussion had come up since them, some of which in particular involved why Sart asking that was bad and whether or not he was evil You voted for Sheep instead of Sart on D1 along with Bard who we know now was a Villager, and as I stated on earlier in this game I believe the Darkfriends were attempting to use him as a scapegoat (scapesheep?) to save Sart (given that it nearly worked). You ask Orlok why he's voting for Sart if he lacks suspicions of him. Once again, I feel you're trying to push people away from him. During D2 when the lynch was leaning to and from Gunshy you avoided voting for him until the absolute last minute as well, saying you were more suspicious of Nyali (who we have a decent reason to believe is village too). You keep asking what you should you do with your vote, let alone if you should vote at all (I.E, "I could probably seal Gunshy's fate or save him by voting for Elodin"). When you do vote for him you say "please don't hate me if you're a villager, gunshy" (or more like "please don't hate me for helping kill you, teammate"?). After that you pretty much avoid talking about anything really game relevant until Lopen finally catches your attention, and it's extremely vague / seems like you aren't willing to take any more stances on players for fear of giving yourself away anymore. Then when Seonid dies your only comment is "Wow. The Darkfriends had a Ta'veren. *shudders*". Posts like this always make me think eliminator. Next lynch you get involved in is Conquestor, which I suppose I can understand from a villager point of you because the other lynch candidate was yourself at the time, but knowing you're Aiel-Blooded I don't think you'd find it so important to make sure that he's lynched by pointing out other players had voted for him that were missed in another player's tally, as if you wanted to ensure a villager died for certain. That's pretty much it. Mostly conjecture but from my perspective it makes more sense that you're the 4th Darkfriend. If it's not you then I suspect it's either Lopen, Meta or Elodin, as I believe the 4th role would be a protective one considering the village began with two Wolfsiblings.
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That is a bad plan because A: It takes away my extra life which means it'll be easier for the Corrupt to get rid of me when they're trying to overpower us, B: If Aonar isn't Padan than all the real Padan has to do is refrain from using his Corruption to mislead us further, when killing Rubiks now can guarantee it. Since when are you so paranoid about losing people, anyway? What happened to lynching being the most important way for villagers to gain information? If I'm Detained instead of Aonar and we lynch Rubiks we gain a lot more information then what you provide, as we actually learn a players alignment that also confirms another's. Lynching me will do nothing but confirm I'm not Padan, and then people will still suspect I'm a Darkfriend, whereas Detaining me just means that you guys can prove my Aiel-Bloodedness later. If I'm lying and I'm Padan I can't convert. If I'm lying and I'm a Darkfriend then I can't kill. If Rubiks is not Corrupted or a Darkfriend then you can come at me with full force next round. Either way if I'm lying, Detaining me and lynching Rubiks does no real harm to the village.
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Not necessarily that I'm in danger, but given Meta is insistent that I MUST be Padan or a Darkfriend (neither of which I am) detaining me should force him to listen to genuine reason, as if either are true I will be unable to do any harm to the village if I am lying about my role/alignment.
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Before Aonar made his list, Stink claimed he followed Bard and that he targeted Mailliw. Mailliw didn't get attacked so that rules out Fire. Bard could have used Air to protect him (unprovable, except that would mean Aonar would know Mailliw's role) or Spirit to role block him (in which case Mailliw would have admitted any action he used was stopped). Therefore making him untargetable with Water is literally the only thing he could say to make sure he didn't falsely guess at Mailliw's role (risk getting caught in a lie). It's also the perfect thing to claim because Bard is dead and therefore cannot say which ability he used. Have @AliasSheep detain me then so I can't potentially Corrupt a third player or kill any more villagers if you're so confident and vote for Rubiks if you don't want to risk a potential Viewer. Unless you're not suspicious of Rubiks at all, who until this cycle has done many more questionable things than self-preservation, which I have already argued is non-indicative of alignment, and laid out exactly what I think it's essential we get this lynch right, as otherwise the village is in a very bad position. If we lynch @RubiksCube instead of Aonar and he's not proven to be Corrupted that clears Aonar of being Padan. If we do this while simultaneously detaining me and having @STINK Thief-Take @TheMightyLopen, we can successfully clear four players at once. Is that not a good enough plan @Metacognition? I honestly can't see any better scenario. The only issue is if Aonar IS Padan then he will manage to get one more Corruption off before dying. That's the only reason why I'd rather us not waste a Detainment on me because I know for a fact I can't do anything but vote. But if people think this is the best option then fine.
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Yeahhh, the convenience of it makes me think that it's a lie. It's all information the village already has, and I don't get why Hael would try to scan Mailliw twice in a row but not Meta. I don't think there was any evidence to suggest that Mailliw's scan was blocked by Mask of Mirrors until this turn when Stink told us Bard targeted Mailliw, so I feel like this is just Aonar using it as a way to fill the gap other than using another dead player or confirmed role. Besides, many players have made fake lists like this before; I know Twei did when she claimed Assassin to mislead the village in MR10 (it worked, and the Diagrammists won that game because of it, in case anyone forgot) sooo I'm going to go with my gut and say this is fabricated. If he had claimed Wisdom, or that he actually viewed Rubiks as a Darkfriend Aiel-Blooded, I would have been willing to give him another turn at least... but I'm getting the impression of a delaying tactic here, which is the exact same thing I would try to do if I were caught red handed.
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Amanuensis is unconvinced. @Mailliw73, any idea why you scan would fail on you N3?
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I'm not entirely sure how to respond to that, other than "what?" Though this did encourage me to do up the vote tallies, which has made me realize how closer this lynch is than I thought. Lynch: (2) Aman: Bugsy, Meta, (1) Winter: Jaimee, (2) Aonar: Aman, Lopen, (1) Meta: Mailliw, Mayor: (2) Mailliw: Mailliw, Aman (2) Meta: Meta, Joe @The Only Joe, if you're pretty sure about not lynching me then I would recommend taking your vote off Meta for Mayor to avoid a potential extra vote from getting added to me.
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I hate to sound pushy, but is there a particular reason why? As a Village Dreamwalker your only tool to ensure victory should be your ability to vote. We're also at the stage in the game where everyone should have formed solid opinions on most subjects and where every vote truly counts. Not getting involved in the lynch is exactly what got a village Whitecloak killed.
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@Renegade, if the majority were to vote for Rima would we lynch two players at once? Or would there be a coin flip for which one perishes?
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I'm working on it. Got 152 words written so far, goal is 800-1200. Admittedly I don't understand what I did to set you off on a rant, but either way I'm sorry for annoying you (I've reread that paragraph three times and felt I was being very nice). Yes, you offered something else for us to consider, but it's something that Mailliw agrees is unlikely, and I'm sure we aren't the only two who think that way. Whether or not your intentions were pure, the fact remains that a Corrupted could write exactly what you said to distract us from the truth. That is what I am arguing in response. I'm not saying that it's an absolute, just a possibility. As for how you defend arguments like that, the answer is you don't, and I don't really understand how it's relevant. I don't think anyone has explicitly voted for a new player for the fact that they're new, let alone expressed suspicions for that reason. I was just saying that you were a player ripe for conversion from the start, or at least you were in my opinion, which is why I read that post I responded to the way I did. There's also Rubiks as a lynch candidate, you know. There's a few people, including myself, who believe he is the last Darkfriend, and whether or not he is, killing him would prove whether or not Aonar is Padan (if he's Corrupted, then great, we reduced their number by one and Aonar is basically proven Padan at that point. If he is not Corrupted we know Aonar is not Padan, as he was redirected by Joe to Rubiks on a night someone was Corrupted). He isn't really contributing much to the game, has already lost his extra life, and has enough ties that the village can gain a significant amount of information from. Is Winter still a better candidate than him? @The Only Joe and @Master Elodin , I've seen ya'll view the thread recently, but ya'll haven't posted yet. Any thoughts?
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On the subject of numbers I can knock out that math quick (I'm totally not procrastinating from doing that stupid essay). Let's see... 13 living players. 3 of those is Padan and Posse, one the remaining Darkfriend, meaning it's 9 vs 3 vs 1. So, if I was Padan and managed to get us to lynch a village Aonar, it would mean that Rubiks did not get Corrupted by Joe's redirect. Since a decent number of people believe he is the last Darkfriend it is likely that he would be targeted by the Wolfbrother. That is, unless, I managed to Corrupt the Wolfbrother or one of the Ta'veren, in which case I would just make sure the kill went to someone more essential to get rid of, like the Whitecloak. So, if we managed to do that and establish contact with the last Darkfriend, we could also ask them to kill a target of our choice in exchange for being converted to our side so that they have a better chance to win, giving us two kills. In that situation what is 8 vs 3 vs 1 becomes 6 vs 4 (5 vs 4 if Winter remains inactive) which means we have a very slight chance to control the lynch, depending on who the Corrupted players are. If we succeed in at least delaying things (with a tie) then by the next day we'd have 4 vs 4 unless one of our kills is blocked by detainment (which would be very easy to avoid because I'd probably have Sheep killed tonight anyway). From there, with Winter still inactive, the Corrupted would have the numbers to win. So ultimately this game can be over by next night turn. Thing is I'm NOT Padan and I'm worried that either a Ta'veren or Wolfbrother is already Corrupted and, if not, soon will be. THAT is why I am fighting so hard to make sure we don't waste this lynch on me. I would rather put the village in a better position than delaying the game even further, as it gives the Corrupted a chance to pull off a strategy like the one above.
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Can you rank them in order of which you'd support being lynched the most to the least, and why? Do you have any other suspicions other than any of these three players?
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Would it be too much trouble for me to ask you to give it a shot? If you're not Corrupted that means you're one of the most confirmed players and therefore your vote and your opinion is a lot more important than most others. If not, can I at least ask you to detain me this cycle, regardless of if people decide to lynch me or not? @STINK You have any opinion on Aonar, Rubiks or me? I know you're online, so there should be nothing keeping you from responding.
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I've got a question! What's the point in learning each kandra's name?
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Empasis mine. Well THIS won't be confusing at all.
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Is it possible? Yes. Do I personally believe it's likely? No. At this point we are aware of enough roles through player deaths and provable claims that we can begin to make some logical guesses on role distribution as a whole. For example, Wolfsiblings and Thief-Takers are confirmed village roles, and apparently we started with four of them. To balance two guaranteed-good village kill roles the Darkfriends would need some form of protection from them. I would probably give them a Wisdom for that reason, so they can be more malleable with who gets to survive in case a specific player accumulates enough suspicion to warrant an attack, but at this point in time it seems more likely they have an Aiel-Blooded or a Dreamwalker. While I'm aware the Darkfriends had a Whitecloak as well (that can work as a protection) I personally do not believe that would be Gamma's answer for a counter, as it would also force said player to not be able to take any actions, such as the team kill or the Ta'veren redirect. Tangent aside, I want to point out that anyone who votes for me is doing the exact same thing you seem to put yourself against, which is "lynching someone just to see if they are Fain without good enough proof to support it." There is zero proof that I am Padan or a Darkfriend (in fact, it's unlikely I am compared to Rubiks or Aonar because as Lopen so kindly pointed out, I was last online 17 hours before turn over. Kill orders and conversion orders are very rarely put in that early in a night turn. Is it possible I was smart enough to be preemptive about it? Yes. But what actually happened was I got online to ask Gamma a question in our PM because I woke up that morning with a theory that I wanted to present, but it required understanding the Viewer role better and I didn't want to waste my time proposing something that wouldn't work anyway. Lastly, in my opinion, lynching Winter is utterly pointless right now. A: It is extremely unlikely she was Corrupted N1 because she already had a significant number of people voicing concerns about her. B: It is extremely unlikely she was Corrupted last night because she's been inactive for a while and why would Padan want an inactive teammate. C: She is proven to not be Padan because she did not log on at all during the Night Turn in which someone was Corrupted. D: I don't believe she is a 5th Darkfriend (let alone that there is one at all) because there is no evidence to suggest one exists, especially if you consider they began with an extra kill, a detainment and a redirect, on top of the fact that there's a second eliminator faction with at least three members. When there is evidence pointing at other people why waste a turn going after something that nets the village little-to-no-gain and that is based on a possibility as weak as there might be 5 Darkfriends. If there is I'd much rather focus on the active Darkfriend who is actually killing us, rather than the one who can't do anything to harm us. Honestly I get the impression that you're reaching for some straws here, which supports my theory that you were the target of Corruption N1. Knowing your role or not, you were very helpful and active from the beginning, and being brand new you have the advantage of no one knowing how you would play and if you did make a slip up it wouldn't be hard to dismiss it as "I'm new and failing to understand things." That's my logic, at least (on top of the fact that you know a lot about the Wheel of Time which would make conversing in a doc with you fun, and that since you're brand new it would be a good way to help familiarize yourself with our community so that hopefully you stick around to play more games, since personally I've noticed that there's often a new player every game but for one reason or another most don't play again afterwards, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed it). Given that you're doing this in support of Aonar without directly saying his name makes me also believe that I'm right about him being Padan, which as far as I'm concerned can only be him, you or Bugsy. I do not mind being lynched to prove I'm not Padan. But if you're going to waste my extra life like that when there are much better options (discovering that I'm Aiel-Blooded tells no one anything about another person's alignment, unlike Aonar/Rubiks) I would like to at least be Detained so that I have a chance of being cleared from being the last Darkfriend while also being protected. Personally I would like to survive a game as a villager for once (look at my record, literally never have) and I feel that we're getting way too close to the part of the game that a day turn wasted on a player who can't die from it will not help the village and in fact do the exact opposite of what you're intending here. If we let Padan live tonight and he has a third Corruption it's going to get used, whether or not we have the Wolfbrother attack him, which will only make the village's job that much harder, especially since by making these public plans for detentions we're basically spelling out for him who he can take and who he can't. Plus, given the fact that only Lopen has spoken up for me this turn (I believe he said he's still getting villager vibes from my posts), that should suggest that I'm a villager, should it not? Just like you stuck with lynching Sart because of how much opposition formed against the lynch, isn't the lack of the same thing happening for me telling of the opposite? Padan and Posse know I'm not among their numbers. They couldn't care less if I'm the last Darkfriend, and the last Darkfriend knows I'm not that. So why would they not encourage my lynch? Especially if the majority already seems intent on letting it happen, even when there's no evidence to suggest I belong to either eliminator faction. Seriously. Look at the reasons people have voted for me. Mailliw doesn't know my role (We don't know Aonar's role either) Bugsy because I'm on both lists for potential Padan and Darkfriend (only valid one, in my opinion) Joe: Doesn't see the point in lynching Winter (doesn't mention Hael/Aonar though) Meta: Aman is pushing for his survival (not indicative of alignment either way) If we lynch Aonar or Rubiks we are guaranteed to learn something about the other player. If you lynch me I'll survive and you learn nothing about anyone else. That right there should be reason enough to choose him for the lynch, and if you want to prove my Aiel-Bloodedness so bad just detain me and lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong about Aonar/Rubiks. I'm literally harmless detained, not that there's anything I can do to harm anyone anyway. @AliasSheep Did you get Corrupted? When you got converted to Hoid in the last LG I noticed a significant drop in your activity in favor of your newly obtained doc, and I can't help but notice you're being similarly quiet now. You've got to have some kind of stance on what's been discussed this turn so far.
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I'm usually not excited about Mistborn games but this one intrigues me immensely. I'll sign up as Silk, twin sister of Felt and spy-for-hire.
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The reasoning behind them not having more than four members is because there's a secondary faction of eliminators. Having 18 villagers versus 9 eliminators (if Padan has 3 conversions that all land on villagers and the Forsaken has 4 Darkfriends) just seems like too much to me. I am more inclined to believe the Darkfriends and Corrupted are balanced in numbers than otherwise. Needless to say, it's possible I could be wrong, but I think that's a hurdle we need to leap when we find the fourth Darkfriend and Padan / his Corrupted. If Darkfriend kills still occur or the game doesn't end, THEN we should worry about that.
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Not that I'm aware of, no. Though I will be incredibly surprised if there are 5 Darkfriends, what with Padan & Posse running around.
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