Chuck Hossenlopp

Thanks for all the good solid reactions. All of you are ringing the same bells. I hear all of you loud and clear. This opening has been a problem for me since day one. I really think that a fake out imaginary opening only works in a visual medium, where the veil is lifted in a way more obvious and succinct way. (Toy Story2&3, Kung Fu Panda, probably some non-animated examples...) The thing is, it does what I need it to do (clumsily). Wisecracking college kids get invited on an archeological dig that dumps them into a bunch of problems involving monsters and magic. I've left it as is for so long because not worrying about it helped me get the rest of the novel done. I'm sure that the smart thing to do would be to would be to start with the dig site. I'm planning on workshopping the rest of the book here with all of you, and then coming up with a better opener after you've seen all of that.

Don't go thinking that me being an old guy makes me any less of a rookie than you are. I will say that the first chapter, especially the first line, of my own story has been rewritten dozens of times. Keep going forward, dude

Page one: I'm having trouble staying interested in the world when there's no characters yet. The chapter is named for a character, but I know nothing about him or her yet. Page two: Illy has cool vision powers! Let's see how this works (I'm calling him Illy because this forum is googlable) "...with one of them crossing the plains every . These marked..." -Looks like you edited a few words out here Hereditary quake powers? Yup. A family that could crack a castle in half at will would definitely become a dynasty. (Or a Salem witch trials thing) The fault lines are misbehaving? I wanna know why! Page three: "Last time..." Is Illy just growling about what these guys did, Or is this an intro to a flashback? Page four: Wait a minute. This horrible Slave King villain... Is he the leader of a slave revolt? Is the story about Illy learning that he's on the wrong ethical side? Page five: Illy goes from begging to threatening a superior force. Plenty of room for character growth. So far I see Illy as a sheltered aristocrat that is unaware of his own arrogance. I feel like the story is promising to knock him on his chull a whole bunch so that he can learn humility and compassion and a wider view of the people in his world. Page six: Five hundred armed men for bandits? Either that's a big city, or he's not fooling anyone. Illy seems pretty naive is a guy who said "What the hell do I need a title for?" would play by such chivalrous rules as "Don't kill the guy with a title." Again, this gives the character room to grow So I guess this kid-killer Slave King isn't the great emancipator I thought he might be. Now he looks like a straight up villain Page seven: "Be strong my boy..." Illy's a kid-killer? Wait, this kid lead an army. How old is Illy? Illy threw his little buddy in front of a bus. It's going to take something big to earn my empathy back Illy screws up the negotiation, gets his friend killed, and now he's throwing a seismic tantrum. He's almost as unlikable as Gilgamesh at the beginning of his epic Pulling a gun while surrounded by an army? That's not chutzpah. Now I'm thinking that Illy's just going to straight up die, and Sen is going to be our main character Page eight: Illy is a hate monster! I seriously have no idea where this story is going. I'm expecting a redemption story if anything I thought Illy was younger because he was bewildered that he would be chosen for peace negotiations, and how inept he was at anything political. Whoever chose him as a negotiator sucks at choosing negotiators. It seems like fantasy elements aren't very common in this world, and magic is only in the hands of the cultural elite. I want to see where chapter two goes.

This is a first chapter, so I won't influence your reactions by telling you anything here. Just give me your reactions, and tell me what you think this story is promising the reader

Beautiful! this is what I was looking for. When criticism comes from just one person, I can't gauge if it's personal taste on their part, or a legit problem with my text. There are definite patters to the criticism here. Fake out openings work on movies and TV shows, but can any of you think of a literary example of a fake opening that works? Is the fake out opening worth saving? Or is it just too much of a slog to get through with the confusing name and setting changes?

This story began with: 20150907_ChuckHossenlopp_EpochWin_ChapterZero This was a fake out opening where the fantasy elements were all part of a video game. It introduced the multiple first person style, the characters, and the plot hook. Sam was on an archaeological dig in Germany when he found a Neanderthal buried with anachronistic grave goods. He called for his friends Al, Jack, and Hank to join him on the dig. The friends suspect fraud and are motivated to go there to support his friend when the fraud is inevitably revealed.

Okay, so this is one of the major steps that I missed. I'd like to post on Monday if I may.

Same deal I made with Shrike, then. I'll send it to anyone who replies to my email.

Reply to me and I'll send it right to you

You got the email, but not the file both times? Should I try again,given my rogue status here?

Is Fox the only one who got it?

First off, let me just say that I'm embarrassed about screwing up on the submission process. That said, I don't feel like I deserve the amazingly thoughtful feedback that you gave, Fox. You're rewarding a rule breaker, I hope you know. And thank you Robinski, for gently correcting me via email. I'll wait for Silk before I post anything further. I really love that you went through and recorded your gut reactions as you went through. Please, oh please, don't pull any punches. I've gone back and forth on this fake out opening. I've made it longer, I've made it shorter, I've made it sound more like it is a sincere novel opening, and I've leaned on the 4th wall until it started to crack and buckle. But I did all this with basically no input from readers. So I moved on. And in doing so, I was able to just get over it and finish all 125,000 words of it. The intended purposes of this opening were to intro the characters, sample the sarcastic tone of the rest of the book, promise cool fantasy stuff, and and get the reader interested in my tinfoil hat theory about Neanderthals and dwarves. How well does it do at each of these? I will say that even when I read this intro myself, something about it is very similar to eating a tinfoil and glass sandwich. I'm too close to it. I can't pin it down myself. Can any of you pin down the spanner in the works here? I'm not married to this intro, and I am more than willing to rewrite it from scratch. I might ask you guys these same questions right after you finish the entire book. I think this post exceeded my 5000 word limit, so I'll just be shutting up now

Knew I was missing something. I resent the email, the attachment shouldn't fall off this time. I'm probably too late for this week even if there is any room for me

As if to prove what a noob I am, how do I read everyone else's submissions?

I hope I'm not cutting in line here, let me know if I'm breaking any rules here. This is my first submission ever. Please be kind and hold my hand though the submission process. But please, don't be overly kind to my writing. Nuff said. Enjoy

I've considered it a bit, and I think a chapter at a time will work out better. The smaller word counts to digest will keep the involvement more frequent and more motivating. Plus having the bait of more having chapters available might speed up responses, too. The downside is that I want to post the whole thing right now, and have insightful and detailed critiques from no less than five brilliant people by tomorrow morning. Oh well. Look for me soon!

I’d like the community’s opinion on what I should do. I have a complete draft of my manuscript. Am I better off chopping it into chapters and joining the queue here, or am I better off trying to get a decent number of volunteers from among you to critique the whole story? Since I wouldn’t feel right without reciprocating by critiquing the work of my critics, how would I manage that if I go with the second idea? What’s my book about? Here’s the elevator pitch: Four smartass college kids find magic books at an archaeological site in Europe. Upon learning how to use their new magical powers, the guys proceed to piss off a dragons, unleash demons, get stalked by Sasquatch, culminating in an invasion of Neanderthals in the streets of San Francisco. The title is Epoch Win. So what do you think? Chapters or Whole?

That should have been obvious now that I think of it. I assumed that it was just a book club, but that's not the kind of community this place would foster. These are hungry writers like me. I'm going to skulk around the periphery and dip my toe in the water before I jump in. Look for my post in that Forum if you still want to workshop me

Yeah. Editing. It's hard for me to stay motivated. And it's not like you can have a word count goal. I'm actually trying to kill some words since my word count is getting a little high. So I did a search. Here's our homework: Writing Excuses 8.46: Editing with Aeryn Rudel Writing Excuses 4.31: Line Editing Dialog Writing Excuses 9.12: Microcasting! Twice in a row! Writing Excuses 9.33: Microcasting Let's see if those are good medicine.

Brandon did plenty of that when he was a teacher at BYU, but it would be interesting to hear our hosts workshop a newbie's manuscript on the air. I wouldn't want to be the poor schmuck in the hot seat though. Where are you going to get someone gullible enough brave enough to volunteer? My current struggle is that my manuscript is done... but it ain't done yet. I have to <sigh> edit the thing. Writing is fun. Editing is work. I'd like a show about getting up the gumption to Edit. Has there been a show on editing yet?

My only complaint about the current graphic is that it obscures the Time display on my phone. I'd like some more negative space along the edges. That's my self-centered two cents, anyways.

I've had a lot of hassle getting people in my real life to function as beta readers. If I can get anyone to read it at all, very few finish it. And the comments I get are; "I liked it." "It was good." "It's fine." "There was one part that needed a comma, but I don't remember where." Frustrating. I found critters.org on the SFWA site. It looks like exactly what I need. So why am I so terrified? Because I'm about to hand my full manuscript (several years of work) to faceless strangers on the internet. No biggie. Here's what I want to know from all of you guys: Have any of you tried Critters.org? Are there hidden pitfalls that I should be aware of? Or am I just being paranoid? Reader feedback is the only thing stopping me from finishing off the editing phase and shopping it around to Agents.