kari-no-sugata

One thing I noticed is that in this chapter he was tossing a bean-bag (?) into the air repeatedly. I don't remember him doing that before and it seems to me that this was a way to keep his mind occupied. I guess we'll never know what he would have done differently in times like this if he'd never killed Sadeas but I'm guessing he wouldn't have been tossing that bean-bag and perhaps a number of other things. He's actively giving himself various things to do and probably the last thing he wants to do is to sit around in his room doing nothing much. I bet he slept well that night, like Shallan. They're both getting emotional support from their interactions, though neither of them realise that this is the case for both of them.

There was some discussion earlier about Shallan and Adolin's romance. I think it's generally going fine and I thought the latest chapters had plenty of positive signals. It would be nice to see the two together from Adolin's POV though. For the most part, I really enjoyed their scenes together in the latest chapters and hope to read more - fortunately, Adolin has a nice excuse to regularly meet and interact with Shallan. Anyway, Shallan is quite relaxed around Adolin and on top of finding him very attractive physically she is increasing attracted to him emotionally/mentally. Putting it another way, I see clear progress since WoR and Shallan clearly likes Adolin as a person. I would say she loves him but that is highly subjective. If you compare this to how Dalinar feels for Navani, it doesn't feel all that different to me. However, love isn't a binary thing and there is still room for it to become deeper and wider. Of course, there's also scope for things to become worse. In fact, this seems highly likely as both Adolin and Shallan have skeletons in their respective closets. That could destroy their romance depending upon how events unfold and how they deal with it but it could also deepen it eventually if they open up to each other more.

It's really hard predicting what's going to happen here. If what Mraize is saying is correct then her brothers were on the way to Urithiru. But what if they got caught up in the Everstorm? If they were unlucky then they could be killed - and if that happened Mraize would probably keep quiet about it. It's really hard to say. Normally, such situations in fiction feel like they should lead to tragedy but Kaladin was able to see his parents just fine. Either way, there's still the minor problem of dealing with the Ghostbloods.

Minor side-thought #1: No real rush but I'm a bit disappointed that Shallan hasn't commented on Dalinar saying that the Almighty is dead. Considering that Shallan is consistently religious (including so far in Oathbringer) I'm sure this will come up eventually as I can't imagine that Shallan doesn't care about this. Shallan's personal soldiers (Gaz and all) haven't been mentioned at all yet either. Minor side-thought #2: Shallan was using Pattern in blade form to bring lots of people to Urithiru. So why is her reaction in chapter 15 so different? It seems obvious enough that there's a difference in knowing that she simply has to quickly use the blade like a key to unlock the Oathgate and knowing she has to use it like a weapon that killed her mother for an extended period. So one interesting thing to see would be whether or not Shallan uses her Brightness Radiant persona going forwards when bringing people to Urithiru. Hopefully she doesn't but she's already thought of being more Radiant-like in public (during her first chapter in Oathbringer) so it wouldn't surprise me if she does. Minor side-thought #3: I wonder how long until Shallan practices Soulcasting again. Minor side-thought #4: At the moment, Shallan hasn't specified what specifically she plans to do with Veil. It sounds like she mostly wants to mix it with normal people. If she wanted technical/academic knowledge she would visit the experts surely. She talks about finding answers and my guess is that she'll try to talk to random people to help herself come to terms with killing her mother. It looks like due to Adolin's suggestions that she might try to investigate the murders as well.

Hi @maxal I thought you'd enjoy the Shallan chapters and am glad you did. Very cute and I agree with all the points you listed. I'm really glad that Adolin is bringing much needed joy into Shallan's life, as well as confidence, knowledge and skills.

Compare Shallan's last interaction with Pattern in WoR. Then see the difference between that and the first batch of Shallan chapters. Then compare those to the latest. Each shows progress, I would say (after her relationship got knocked back a lot). It's going to take Shallan time to fully comes to terms with it. Why is it the default assumption that the personas will go out of control? Is it even a safe assumption that she will make more and more personas that she uses regularly? If so, why? She doesn't create them just for fun but to solve really difficult problems - problems that Shallan cannot handle. Those don't turn up very often as she's very good at problem solving. It's not like she's inventing a new persona just to do the chores or something. Me too. I see Shallan as basically being the opposite of Vin, so far. But she has already fought and killed Tyn, for example. That doesn't make her a warrior. Learning to fight with a Shardblade enough at least she she can use it for self-defence wouldn't make her a warrior either. I really doubt Shallan is going to make a habit of fighting but it would seem rather dumb for her to avoid it completely.

It's probably better not to think of "oathbreaking" as a binary thing. The Nahel bond is not either on or off - it can slowly develop over time and it can slowly weaken over time. Likewise, a particular event may or may not constitute "oathbreaking" but the effects it could have on the Nahel bond could be rather different. It seems that the most extreme case (that we've seen) is what the Radiants did during the Recreance. What Kaladin did to Syl during WoR slowly weakened the bond to such an extent that Kaladin could no longer use Stormlight and Syl was sort-of dead. What Shallan did to Pattern is probably somewhere between those two. Lightweavers speak Truths not Oaths. It seems logical enough that the opposite would weaken the bond - a deep lie that she fully believes to be the truth, for example. It also seems logical that the more lies or the deeper the lies the more she would regress as a Radiant - it doesn't seem to make much sense to talk of her having broken specific oaths. After Shallan killed her mother, her memories of the event became warped and she effectively denied what she had done and denied Pattern. Whatever you want to call it, that's the event that strongly weakened the bond. Regarding her Shardblade, I'm pretty sure she could have summoned it in tWoK at any time if she had really wanted to.

Strictly speaking, this is incorrect. The chapter 13 started with Shallan working on Veil and she clearly thinks that Veil has a different personality. We didn't really see such a thing in WoR in practice but Shallan thought that too at least - for example from chapter 70 in WoR: Also, Brightness Radiant is specifically thought of as a title, not a different person. A calmer more analytical version of Shallan. It's a new lie but one Shallan is in control of, rather than one that is in control of her. Sure, Shallan needs help. She's needed that for a long time but there's been nobody there to help. Adolin is certainly helping (apart from unintentionally putting her into a situation where Shallan had to create a new persona), since I'd say one problem Shallan has is a distinct lack of confidence and self-respect - I wouldn't be surprised if she hates herself to some degree (at least, she's frequently critical of herself). It might seem strange for Shallan to do a fist pump when Adolin makes a joke about her ego but for her this is an incredibly rare and precious event.

With regards to what Shallan is doing with Veil and Brightness Radiant, I common problem I see with people talking about that is to treat them as permanent and maybe even uncontrollable personalities that sit along side Shallan. They are not. Shallan intentionally made them to solve specific problems. She is fully in control of them. They are completely subordinate. They are not "active" permanently. They do not become active involuntarily or accidentally. Shallan herself develops them as well. If Shallan is insane for just that by itself then all method actors are insane. Putting it another way: if nobody else can tell that Shallan is insane, is she still insane? Pretty much all of her life Shallan has had to teach herself how to solve problems. Her extreme actions come from her being in a situation where she has to solve extreme problems. Her methods are not always the best but they work at least. She created Veil as a disguise to more safely infiltrate the Ghostbloods. She created Brightness Radiant so that she could bear to wield Pattern as a Shardblade. She does not need or use these personas on a day to day basis - as far as we know this chapter is the first time since her last POV chapter in WoR that she made use of Veil (maybe 10 days?). They are not a coping mechanism in the proper sense of the phrase (as I understand it). I agree that it would be better for Shallan to fully confront her problems. However, she has the minor constraint of having to save the world and doesn't have the luxury to come to terms with her problems in peace. It would probably be better for her to admit her problems to others and in fact that's what I suspect her final Ideal will be about - telling the people she cares about all the horrible things she's done. She's not ready for that yet. So long as Shallan does not overly use or abuse her personas I think that will give her the necessary breathing space in the short term to come to terms with her past. Also, I suspect Brightness Radiant will be useful in general - Shallan will probably have to fight and kill people. That's not something that Shallan finds at all easy to do. It's also a problem all soldiers face. At least this way, she can handle a crisis situation and be in control - and afterwards she can go back to being Shallan. Incidentally, I think with time Shallan will be able to deal with Pattern again normally since she seems to care about him and hates the idea of killing him. Her relationship with him seems to be slowly improving and I'd say that is a good sign. With regards to her Oaths making her situation worse, I'm not sure I can agree. I can see where this is coming from but at least now she can think about her mother without her mind going blank. She can start to heal properly. Also, her hatred of the blade is not a new thing - quoting from "Blossoms and Cake" in WoR: This aspect is worse now I agree. But considering everything, I think the net benefit is positive.

You say it's like something permanent. Does learning something new permanently split your memory? Does learning a new social skill split your identity up? Shallan is clearly able to decide when to be Shallan and when not to be. I agree it could become a problem for her Truth progression. However, I think that would only be a real problem if she spends a lot of time in another persona, which seems unlikely at the moment - Veil is for going out as a Darkeyes (not something she needs to do very often) and Brightness Radiant is for when wielding a Shardblade (again not something she's going to be doing that often).

To quote from the chapter: Being mentally unstable is practically Shallan's default state. She even jokes about being insane, mad or crazy. I don't see anything that makes me thing she's losing grip on her identity. Her extra personas are a tool (so far), and she's able to quickly slip in and out as necessary.

I think this is a great point. The stronger and more stable your sense of self the safer it would be to temporarily step into another persona, for example. It should also make the Lightweavers particularly resistant to mental attacks from Odium's side. Various mental tricks are hardly a new thing (eg the Flame and the Void) and neither are magically enhanced mental tricks. We've already seen Shallan's enhanced memory. When we see people flying using magic it's considered safe but anyone doing anything that affects their own mind is considered inherently unsafe it seems - is that really the case? This is not to say that it's risk free of course, but then again neither is learning to fly risk free. So far, Shallan seems fully in control of her personas - the day she wakes up in a different persona I'll definitely worry a lot though.

In WoR while she was cutting out the cubby, the blade shrank when she thought about it. She simply said thank you and moved on at the time but I doubt she would forget. There's also other ways - eg talking with Kaladin or Renarin. Pattern could have mentioned it in passing.

She deliberately made the blade blunt. In which case it doesn't cut... it seems.

Given how the magic systems in the Cosmere work, it might be more of a surprise for there to be no relationship between the two, but this is early days of course. It seems to me that many readers are quite quick to criticise Shallan or what she's doing - eg assuming her use of multiple personas is all going to go horribly wrong right from the start. It would be rather ironic if this is Shallan simply exploring a magic system she doesn't yet understand and this all turns out to be necessary long term for her to achieve her goals, like with Shai. Of course, it could go wrong but then there's nothing inherently safe about any magic systems.

Sounds like the infinite improbability drive!

I don't think that's the meaning. Pattern told Shallan that they worked in a group to send him over. He expected to die right from the start it seems. So the Cryptics would presumably pick another Cryptic else to send over but that spren would not be Pattern or like Pattern. Spren might have some kind of hive mind but they are individuals as well.

Shallan would probably use imaginary numbers.

Speaking in general: it's worth remembering just how horrible killing her own mother was for Shallan. She didn't speak for 6 months and was close to becoming truly broken. This is not your common trauma. Now she can't hide from the fact of what she did so it's super painful for her to wield the blade again. It's her trauma in the flesh, basically. So it's no wonder that she's having a panic attack. If Adolin wasn't there she wouldn't even try to do this, but for his sake she effectively takes control by inventing a custom new persona for the task. The new persona isn't Shallan so doesn't have Shallan's fears. Or at least, that's what Shallan thinks, hence she can calm down. So with regards to your specific suggestions: We have seen Shallan "Transformation" on others it seems but it hasn't really been defined. So I think this is a good suggestion. Is this another example of using Transformation on people? Going by how Brandon tends to setup his magic systems, perception makes a big difference. So how Shallan thinks of something makes a big difference. It would seem likely that it's much harder to transform people than objects (due to existing Investiture), so it's possible that using Transformation on people normally has very weak effects. So it could be just a mental trick or it could be enhanced but it would perhaps be too big a coincidence that Shallan has the Transformation Surge. I guess the question then becomes is just how typical this is of Lightweavers - is this normal or is it extreme? Regarding Adolin I agree.

Shallan feels a somewhat closer to normal in these chapters. Normal in her case being juggling six different things at once, equal parts mocking herself and the person she's with, both trying to be proper and improper at the same time, bouncing between joy and sadness in the blink of an eye. It would be interesting to know if Shallan's ability to create and take on alternative personas is typical of Lightweavers or not. She seems quite naturally good at it but that could also be a side effect of her underlying personality, background and experience. It's not like these alternative personas are fixed as well and we see Shallan mixing and merging. I think it's quite understandable for her to want to try not to think too much about the blade that killed her mother and while there are downsides to having a genuine split personality, as long as she's in control and deciding what personality to use in a particular moment then it's a very useful mental skill. On a more positive side, I'm glad that Shallan and Adolin got to sit down and talk about Shallan being a Radiant. She specifically brought out Pattern as a chaperone (something that I had wondered about) as well as Kabsal. She clearly enjoyed being with Adolin and with her various problems, she needs some happy moments in her life too. I'm glad that Adolin decided to teach Shallan how to wield a Shardblade and that Shallan is already putting her art to good use for that.

Clearly diplomacy is going to take some time to establish. I think it's quite natural for anyone to be nervous at what could go wrong with Dalinar asking for a nice portal to be opened in the middle of your city. In addition, I think Dalinar is pushing too hard too fast and thinking too much about things from a military perspective and also immediately asking the king to come over. What's a better way to start diplomatic relations then though? There's many but I would start with "cultural exchange". For example, Shallan could ask for permission for a public tour of the city in the name of cultural exchange and art, and someone else could do the reverse from Azir to Urithiru. In other words, start small. If Azir refuse something as simple as that then nothing is going to work with them until something happens to them.

This is what I think too: the Urithiru portals are like doors with locks on both sides. It's possible to leave either side unlocked as well. In other words, it's possible for anyone in Urithiru to block any other portal and it's possible for someone at any other portal to block access to Urithiru. It requires both sides to trust each other for a portal to be used.

I'm a bit surprised that people are only considering the privacy implications of spren now. After all, we had Pattern blatantly looking at Shallan in the bath in WoR (and not just Shallan). I'm sure that it had at least occurred to Shallan that she might be seen in far more private situations... With regards to using spren in general for spying, I think only true spren would be useful and they're quite rare it seems. I don't think we'll see organised large scale spying.

I think it was good to see Renarin from Adolin's point of view again. In fantasy, we're used to seeing those who are "different" but that's often in the context of them being a whole different race (eg elf, dwarf, dragon, whatever) so we expect them to be different - that's part of the charm. From that perspective, it seems a bit unfair to demand that all humans conform to some limited definition of "normal" and that any who don't are treated with distrust and suspicion. That's not always easy of course and can take time, depending upon the situation.

Syl just kicked off the shipping wars... And Kaladin is being quite tsundere about Shallan...