FeatherWriter

I'll just kind of lump this all together since it's all kind of about PoV stuff. See, it comes down to writing style and RP style. We've actually talked about some of our differences as a group, and it's interestng to see everyone's ideas on it. I'm a very introspective writer (as is Emmalyn). The way that I write an RP character is very open. Sylvie doesn't keep secrets from the readers and her narration tells you what she's thinking and why she's doing the things she does. I do the same with fiVe and Vee (though sometimes when I'm the only one writing a scene, I'll just pick one of them and do limited view instead. My original concept of the omniscient viewpoint was that the readers would know what was going on with each of the five player characers and that you would understand what each of them were doing and why they were doing it. I saw it as the job of the GM to pull narrative reveals and plot twists and keep secrets from players. It was kind of an idea of "us against Gavin" the way that lots of RP campaigns work. However, Ellie and Emma and Heather have a somewhat different philosophy. See, they like having secrets of their own, and Seiko, Miranda, and Katie all keep secrets from both the audience and the other players. We don't see inside of their heads very often. Their players write them a lot more externally than I do. They've got all kinds of sneaky things going on behind the scenes that they choose not to let us be privy to. They've got plot twists that they want to be the ones to reveal. To both the players and our readers that follow along. Which, that's their choice and that's the way they like to play. Though it does make things interesting and kind of strange when these kinds of different writing styles collide. Take this scene between Sylvie and Seiko. Because I write Sylvie interally and Ellie writes Seiko externally, it reads like it's just from Sylvie's point of view. We don't hear Seiko's inner monologue here at all. In talking to Ellie, I've been told that Seiko brought a backup assassination plan to this little meeting and there were three times where he got fed up with Sylvie and almost used it. But, because Ellie didn't write that in, the audience doesn't know it. So, my idea of full-disclosure omniscience for the five PCs isn't... quite a thing, unfortunately, which makes for some narrative strangeness, but I can't ask for other people to change the way that they like to play and write just for the sake of narrative consistency. It does mean that Scroungers has become a lot more Sylvie POV than it was originally intended to be, but well... that's also just because I'm obsessed and I write lots of scenes for her. It's at least not a limited POV. We still get to know what the other characters are doing sometimes, even when Sylvie's not around to see.

...okay that is just a little too perfect. Shroom agrees: No one is surprised by his rudeness, of course. For those curious, the idea of a kismesis comes from Homestuck. It's blackrom, and it's the same idea that I use when talking about black shipping. Like say... Kaladin and Adolin early in WoR. (Also, I was hoping he'd get mad and respond, but Shroom isn't actually Australian. He's a kiwi who gets upset when you call him Australian. So I do. At every possible opportunity.)

Yeah yeah, Lurth. We cool. You're a cool guy. No truce needed. Keep up the good work. Oh pllllleeeeaaaaasssseeee Shroom. I turn people against you because you are lame and usck. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are a fungus, or the fact that you live in Australia. And well, the reason I haven't sicced them is because tormenting you is my job. I know you already hate-flirt with like everyone else and hate-cheat on me, but I am a faithful kismesis, which also makes me better than you. And you're already so terrible at this that it hardly takes any effort from me at all. Geting other people to help out is like asking for help on the tutorial level of a video game. Now if you presented some kind of challenge, maybe things would be different, but you don't, and you're my kismesis, so I can handle you on my own. And like you said, kismeses don't kill each other. It's just in bad taste.

*sigh* Me too. Especially the ones that you don't know are evil all along. Like: (some Warbreaker among various other fandoms spoilers) Gotta love a good villian, right?

See, Shroom, now your kerj-ishness is revealed to all!

Renarin, no hesitation. A.) He's a better person. B.) Loki's the kind of character that has all kinds of terrible contingencies in place to bring him back from the dead in the event that it occurs. Often involving doing terrible things to other characters that I love like the jerk that he is. So yeah. Renarin. I love Loki, but he's also a terrible person who does terrible things and is really good at cheating death.

HOLD UP. SHROOM YOU GET YOUR GROOS NASTY KERJISH FACE OUT OF MY FANCLUB THIS INSTANT BEFORE I SMITE YOU. YOU USCK AND I AHTE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE AWFUL AND MY SWORN RIVAL FOREVER. JUST SHUDDUM AND STOP LEAKING STUPIDITY EVERYWHERE LIKE A BROKEN MORON FAUCET, YOU WORTHLESS FUNGUS. ...the only problem is that nobody on 17S knows about our eternal rivalry because you never freaking post over here and you only ever get on tumblr and the cosmere chats you ksjkleksjlkjkslj;eiowhsdflkjeslkerk. *coughs* Featherblades, allow me to introduce Shroom. Also known as RenegadeShroom, also known as InsurrectionistFungus. He is my kismesis which basically means we hate each other with the passion of a thousand suns and we also have our own dumb language that consists of both of us ironically using each other's typos. It's a very complicated sort of mutual rivalry that consists of a lot of dumb insults and lots and lots of capslock. I do have copious amounts of evidence showing how horribly lame and completely worthless he is though over on tumblr of course. Now that introductions are out of the way. SHROOM GET OUT OF HERE. YOU MADE A BIG MISTAKE. COMING INTO MY THREAD. THE FEATHERBLADES WILL DESTROY YOU. AND IT WILL BE AMUSING TO WATCH.

Y'all might want to try her tumblr. I'm not sure how often Maki gets on 17S. Actually, let me see if I can get her on chat and see if she's even taking commissions right now.

...look I'm not saying that I've had a fanfic idea for Renarin at a wine tasting, but I've definitely had that idea before. Kaladin accompanying him (because why miss an opportunity for Kalarin cutes, right?) And just Kaladin following Renarin around and listening as he talks about all the different kinds of wine and notes and flavors and colors and Kaladin slowly starting to realize that Renarin is getting ramblier and kinda sleepier as the day goes on until finally Kaladin turns around to find that Renarin has fallen asleep at a table with a small tasting glass of some kind of very expensive wine in his hand still. So, Kaladin carries him back to the barracks and lets him sleep it off in a Bridge 4 bunk. Maybe Adolin comes looking for Kaladin to loudly demand where Renarin is and ask why Kaladin didn't bring him back and as soon as he walks in all of Bridge 4 like, tackles him, because "Shut up, he's sleeping! Do you want to wake him up?" And everything would be cute and adorable the way Kalarin fics should be.

Wow, reading all the different names was really interesting! Also, Renarin good at tactics but not so great at execution, that sounds a lot like him, darling. Elhokar seems more impulsive and petty in this little section, while those are still attributes of his, the final draft has tempered it down a lot, and I appreciate that. Meridas is Amaram's first name in SA right now, isn't it? That's interesting to consider as well. I have to say, as a writer, I really have to appreciate Brandon releasing early draft stuff like this. I know writers like artists are often really protective and not proud of their early work and don't like people reading it, but honestly, it's very inspiring to see these kinds of drafts. Are they rougher and less polished? Absolutely. And yet, the idea that Brandon has improved so much in his writing style and pacing and characterization and everything gives people like me hope that if we just keep practicing, we can improve too.

....I wonder if I could get Maki to help out with it. Would it be weird for me to ask Maki? It would probably be weird. Yeah... ignore me. Y'all could maybe commission her though?

I think the reason people keep thinking that you really dislike him is that, for a character you claim not to feel very strongly for, you do tend to show up as the voice of opposition in lots of threads about him, Maxal.

Oh harmony, I hope not. I'm already way more "famous" than I have ever wanted to be. I don't know how to do this whole "people liking me and my stuff" sort of thing. I DON'T DESERVE FANS. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU THINK I'M COOL. I'M LAAAAAME. *aggressively attempts to slink back into anonymity*

*sits back and watches* Well this is amusing to say the least. Also, I tend to check my updated threads and then open tabs to all of them as a sort of checklist of things I need to read and respond to. So it often shows me as currently on like 17 pages at once. I AM EVERYWHERE. HOW CAN YOU HOPE TO OUTRUN ME WHEN I AM ALREADY HERE?

...dang I do not deserve the nice things that people do for me. Harmony, I'm so flattered, I don't even know what to say. Thank you, this really is a well-written poem and the fact that it's about me is, just wow. Lwd, you're amazing.

Oh no, Lurth. Once you're in you're in forever. There is no escape.

Merci beaucoup, mais je ne parles pas cette langue. Si tu veux parles à moi dans une autre langue d'anglais, peux-je te suggère le français?

Not really contributing anything, but I have to say, I'm really amused by the fact that a few of you guys have started calling him "Ren," since I'm writing a fic right now that has him trying to pass as a darkeyes and using the name Ren as he does so.

You're in luck, it's not even spoilery because it was written before Words of Radiance released! See, there was a faction going around for a while thinking that Renairn might turn out to be evil or an antihero. And I definitely disagreed with that, so I had to write a little something up: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4516-new-info-renarins-spren/page-2#entry72309 Also, because I seem to have a "type" when it comes to characters like this, beneathsilverstars once drew me a picture of Renarin, Loki, Unalaq (from Legend of Korra), and Luigi playing Risk together because the idea came up in the midst of a very strange night of chatting. (You should definitely visit Silver's blog because her sidebar image is Kaladin as a magical boy complete with bows and everything and it is beautiful.)

lwd... did you just... change your icon to a Loki icon. Did. Did you just. *squints* Is someone telling you all of the things that I am completely obsessed with so that you can just casually bring them up and make me think you're awesome? Did you read the Renarin/Loki parallels essay already? Because that is a thing that I wrote a little while ago. Also, WHOA HEY IS THAT SHROOM. Dang, my arch rival and sworn enemy forever came out of his perpetual lurk-i-tude on 17S in order to defend my opinions about Renarin??? I feel like this is a victory for me. I feel like I have won. Shroom is posting and supporting me in my Renarin thing. This is weird. I feel like the world is ending or something. What game are you playing, Shroom? WHAT GAAAME? ...oh braize it all, this means I owe you or something doesn't it? Curses.

Nah, no need to apologize. It just gets lonely getting put up on the pedestal. I prefer just being one of the group, any day, every day. And Luth, the best way to get better at appreciating characters, any of them, is practice, haha. Pick someone to love and find out all the things that are awesome about them! And Renarin's a great pick, if he's the one you want!

Please, you can just call me Feather. And I do not take any sort of responsibility in who is or isn't in the Featherblades and/or their operations. To be perfectly honest, I am incredibly flattered by the fact that I have a group of bodyguards, but I'm still just a site member like the rest of you guys. Trust me, there are way cooler people for you guys to watch out for. I am like semi-cool at best. Heh, Yall are cool. We're all cool. We all like Sanderson books so we all got good taste, right? I'm with you Kae on the predictability thing. The way I see it, it might just be that I'm terrible at guessing things, but I don't find any of the characters terrible predictable. I trust that Brandon's got some twists up his sleeve for all the characters, Renarin included. (I just hope I am able to survive all these twists. Renaaaaaaaarin.)

Oh harmony, I'd be flattered. That's very kind of you lwd! Send me a link if you ever post it anywhere! I agree with Aleksiel on the Elhokar thing, but that's possibly because I see a lot of Loki parallels in trying to be a good king but probably having the responsibility thrust upon him before he was ready for it and messing things up even in his good intentions. He really does try and I think he really does care about his country, but he's got some learning to do. Dalinar tries to help, but Dalinar also has his own agendas and while Dalinar's probably keeping people safe and doing good things, having his uncle walk all over him in order to do so is not good for Elhokar, I don't think.

Mod note: Maxal, please don't double post. Use the multiquote or edit buttons if you need to, please. /mod note I live an Ellie appreciation kind of life. ELLLLLLIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE. See, that's the cool thing about Renarin. He's stealthy awesome. If you don't look for him, you miss out on how cool he is. But when you look, Brandon's got all kinds of amazingess hidden away. To respond to both of you, I define the word "reckless" as more of a thrill-seeking, thoughtless, carefree kind of mindset. Throwing caution to the wind and just sort of doing whatever. Which is not Renarin at all. He's a very careful and thoughful person, and "reckless" doesn't really cover him. On the other hand, I'd define bravery as not giving in to fear. It's being afraid of something and doing it anyway. I'd say that Renarin is well aware of the dangers of the situations he's gotten into but despite the danger and despite being scared, he stays in them and sticks it out. To me, that's brave. And I'm not gonna go into our differences in opinion on Renarin's behavior at the end of WoR, since we've danced that dance before and we're kind of avoiding spoilers here on lwd's behalf. Speaking of whom... *pats* Welcome to the group of Renarin lovers. The way I see it, I pretty much just can't shut up about all the feelings and thoughts I have about him, and if other people end up reading those ramblings and liking him more, then bonus.

Does everyone love Renarin or not? It's worth noting that the tumblr side of the fandom is quite a bit more friendly toward Renarin (as a whole) than the general population of 17S. Which is not surprising, as the tumblr fandom is about... 50-100 people on a strong day, while 17S is huge. So, the general fandom opinion seems kinda ambivalent or ignorant of Renarin if you're looking at 17S alone, but those of us on the tumblr side have more of an idea of "oh wait, everyone loves Renarin!" Renarin as brave? Maxal, you used the phrase "brave and reckless" a few times, and I'd argue that they're two separate ideas. Renarin is brave, but I would not call him reckless. You and I have gone back and forth in threads before about this, but I'll reiterate a little bit. Renarin, by virtue of his "blood weakness" has been unable to do traditionally Vorin masculine things and as such he feels like "a useless drain on everyone's time" (Renarin, WoK Ch. 18) Because of this, I would argue that he had a deep-felt need and desire to be able to be useful. To prove that he is capable of doing something that matters. We see this especially when his family is in danger. Renarin shows himself multiple times to be willing to go into a dangerous situation to try to do something to help. He cannot stand by and watch his family and the people he loves in a situation where they might need help and not do anything. Dalinar vs. the chasmfiend in Way of Kings is a perfect example of this, and I'm sure those who have read Words of Radiance are aware of another (which I will avoid saying to keep away from spoilers). I know that I quote this passage a lot but it's very, very revealing about Renarin's mindset in regards to himself and what he values. He reveals that he considers dying in a way that helps the people he loves as more valuable than living uselessly. Which is a very brave and very selfless mindest, but is also very close to suicide ideation (and therefore very heartbreaking to me). He shows that he thinks of himself as worthless because he cannot fight and shows a desperation for wanting to be useful, to be able to do something, anything to help. Maxal, I know you find him foolish and think that his rushing into danger is a poor decision, and objectively, you're probably right. But I'm not looking at things objectively based on how much they helped the situation or not, I'm looking at them subjectively, specifically from Renarin's perspective. From that angle, I find them incredibly brave and selfless. I find a character who loves his family and hates that he cannot do more for them. I find a mindset that has equated being able to be useful to his family, being able to protect the people he cares about, as worth dying for. And I appreciate and respect that. Renarin as a scholar or a warrior? I will still argue (and will probably continue to argue to the grave) that Renarin has a scholarly mindset. He's analytical and he works through his problems in a very logical and scholarly way. We see multiple times throughout Way of Kings and Words of Radiance that he has a fascination with fabrials, often going over to inspect them or ask Navani about them. There's a moment in Words of Radiance where he notices Kaladin inspecting a fabrial and actually goes over and starts a conversation with Kaladin about it. Yes. Renarin. Going over and starting a conversation with someone who is almost a stranger to him. In Way of Kings while Adolin and Dalinar are arguing about whether or not Dalinar's visions are not delusions, Renarin is the one who comes up with the idea to prove that they're true. He figures out on his own that Dalinar sought out the Old Magic and logically comes to the conclusion that they are not the reason for Dalinar's visions. Later, with Navani, Renarin reveals that he's been doing research on the problem (though he doesn't use that word). He's been having various books on the Old Magic read to him to try to understand how it works. When Navani starts talking about the legend of Parasaphi, Renarin is the one who is familiar with the information and knows it well enough to keep contributing to the conversation. Dalinar mentions that Renarin is suited to the ardentia and thinks Renarin would make a good engineer, however, Renarin does not want to join the ardentia. (If anyone wants sources on these claims I can provide quotes, though for the sake of time, I'm leaving them out here.) I will swear up and down that Renarin has the heart of a scholar, though I think it's something that he would deny about himself if confronted about it directly. I don't think he's totally conscious of the fact that he does these scholarly things instinctively. He wants to be the kind of son that a highprince deserves to have, he wants to be the kind of person worthy of being fourth in line for the throne, and second in line for the Kholin princedom. I very much believe that he would consider scholarship and engineering as, obviously, feminine and therefore, something he should avoid if he wants to prove himself. I think he sees going into the ardentia and becoming an engineer as "failing" or "giving up." Like some kind of final proof that he's not worthy of being a his father's sone, you know? And doing so would be to put what he wants and what interests him above the needs of his family, which, as established above, is a very un-Renarin thing to do. He's going to continue trying to be a warrior and trying to live up to these masculine ideals because he is convinced that he is supposed to and that it is something he needs to do. He's not the kind of person to give up on something just because he's not good at it, not if he sees it as something that needs to be done. This is especially true after he gets Shardplate at the end of WoK. Shardplate was supposed to solve things for him, make it easier, make him able to fight. He refuses to give up, even if he has trouble with it still. Whether or not he is competent or good enough for the task does not factor into the equation. He sees what "needs to be done" and he commits himself to doing it, even when he doesn't see a chance of succeeding or only sees a small chance. Whether that's learning to fight or trying to rescue his family from danger, he puts the needs of others above all else and endeavors to do something to accomplish those goals, even when actually winning seems impossible. Renarin's Box Renarin's box is not mentioned in Way of Kings, and I have a pretty good idea of why. In between Way of Kings and Words of Radiance, Brandon got some notes from Elise Warren (my friend Ellie) on autism and epilepsy and what it looks like to live as an adult with these conditions. Because Ellie is a cool person and a friend of mine, I've read the notes, and they mention the use of stim toys, little objects that are easy to fiddle with to help keep hands occupied and give the person something relaxing and repetitive to do. It is my personal belief that Brandon gave Renarin his little box as a stim toy as a result of the influence of Ellie's notes. Which means I will never ever shut up about how cool Ellie is because my friend helped my favorite author write my favorite character and that is the most amazing thing ever woooooooooooo. Aether's list, that kaellok mentioned, can be found here, though as I said, it contains only quotes from Words of Radiance, so spoiler warning.