WindrunnerRadiant

May not be healthy? May not be healthy? Not healthy at all. That is permanent damage with overuse right there. But still, good in a pinch, better than being dead. Also, Electrum shadows are much more difficult to read than atium shadows are. You may know that if you walk forward three paces, you'll die, but you may not know how. It doesn't tell you how to avoid it and you may not have time to search out every opportunity in order to find the one that you survive. Atium shows you other's actions and what to avoid. Electrum will give you a slight advantage, but not nearly as much. And as for the adrenaline, the Electrum doesn't store it, it only stores determination. However, when you access that extra determination, it causes your body to release adrenaline. Or at least that is what happens from what I can tell.

You definitely get a feeling of slow at the beginning. I took me twice as long to read as most books, just because at the beginning I put it down more often. It definitely sinks its teeth into you eventually though. Especially once you start to really understand a bit more about the world, their society, and their powers.

I don't entirely think Nightblood is a shardblade in the same sense as the spren-corpse Roshar Shardblade. Personally, I think the WoB on that just means that he is a heavily invested weapon, as in a weapon that has a large part of a Shard in it. Also, It seems that Nightblood does not necessarily turn living flesh to smoke when it kills, although the only solid example, it was left mostly sheathed. So, possibly any cut from the actual blade does, we don't know. Judging from the way investiture seems to work around living flesh (Roshar shardblades instead cut the soul, Allomancy has a hard time having an effect on metal piercing skin, etc) I would assume it would be different. Still completely lethal, like pulling all the investiture out of the person followed by their soul kind of lethal.

I think if Kaladin believes that killing someone is necessary in order to protect another, the second ideal takes precedence. Something to keep in mind is that he never had to speak the first ideal in order to progress in his Nahel bond. He did have to speak the second, albeit any sentence with the right idea behind it works. So yes, the first ideal is important, and yes, breaking it hurts Syl (she said it hurther whenever Kaladin killed someone), but just intending to break the third before it was even spoken almost killed Syl, So the other ideals obviously hold more sway.

Poor Wayne, I see him being taken out early on. Against Shallan, he might have experience, but she has Pattern. Hardly a fair fight, as his time bubble basically allows him to turn any situation into a one on one. Plus, she heals faster and more often. Lets not even compare Wayne and Vin. On the other hand, Kaladin takes out Shallan no problem. He just has way to much experience for that to be fair. Now, Vin also has considerable experience. I figure it all comes down to whether or not she has atium. If she does, she would win, it is just to great an advantage. On the other hand, if she doesn't, I'd say Kaladin, mostly because he has far greater mobility in the air and possibly more combat experience, although that one is debatable. He is, however, one of the greatest spear wielders the worlds have ever seen. I mean, even with only slightly stormlight enhanced physical abilities, his pure skill allowed him to kill a full shard bearer. What with lashes and a shardblade, I don't think Vin could deal with him. Here's how I see this going down. Wayne distracts Vin long enough for Kaladin to take care of Shallan. (If Pattern is on an opponents face, he can't be in her hand, thus, no shardblade. She isn't practiced at her other ways of using illusions to distract and has little combat experience. Kaladin take her in a few seconds.) Wayne, with his gold, can probably hold Vin down for that long. Then it is up to Kaladin and Vin. So, Kaladin and Wayne win, but poor Wayne may not make it. Which is a real shame, because Wayne is AWESOME. I just say he still has a little health left in his gold and faked his death, just to heal himself up when Vin is distracted by Kaladin.

The bond is more forced with the Voidspren. We even find out that those already in Stormform can force others to assume it. So it is more forced. And thanks for the much clearer statement about how the whole process could work.

That is quite the mental image...

I feel like if Elend had been around after the third book, Vin would have to too. Otherwise he turns into a monstrous villain who somehow ends up being able to use Feruchemy as well (Sezed thought it was a good idea... for some reason...) after going mad from dealing with the loss of the love of his life and survivor's guilt. We see him return at the end of the Mistborn series as the ultimate antagonist who has finally succeeded in killing Harmony so he could take Ruin alone and shatters Preservation. Of course, if they both survive, you have a line of insanely strong Allomancers. Cause, you know. That baby be crazy strong. Especailly seeing as Vin would possibly be Harmony in this scenario... And Elend end up staying after he dies like Kelsier, and tries to keep him in line. Tries.

This would be one of the differences mentioned in the original post. I didn't think metal in the blood sounded like a good idea. No, it is just a general idea. This sort of machine would actually work better for an extended flare. You could simply set it so a certain amount is injected every so often. Also, who's to say that Allomancy needs to be used for fighting in the future. Thugs could be beneficial in other capacities than brawlers. And in the case of machine failure, you can have a manual stock as well.

These are all good points. I think I should clarify that I don't think that it is a bad thing. The different values of the Orders are what makes the Knights Radiant as a whole work. Rather, I am simply trying to convey that being able to conform to a set of rules to use your power doesn't make you any more 'good.' And the unfortunate truth is that in some situations, someone who is not moral or necessarily good can be necessary.

There is a very understandable assumption that I believe is none-the-less wrong and I have finally reached a breaking point. That is, the idea that all of the Knights Radiant are 'good.' Yes, they have to prescribe to a rather strict set of rules or lose their powers, but that doesn't mean they are all good guys with great judgement and honorable intentions. I don't know if you have forgotten, but Nohadon complains that not all spren capable of forming the Nahel bond are 'as discerning' as the honorspren (like Syl). This implies that some spren grant powers to people who do, in fact, use them in a way that we would consider 'wrong,' but that their spren don't. To further this argument, I would like to cite Cryptics. Yes, Pattern is wonderful and I would consider Shallan a good person. However, the only real requirement to keep your bond as a Lightweaver is to not lie to yourself, which is actually more difficult for Shallan because she is a good person and doesn't want to admit to the things she's done in her past which were wrong. Heck, even using Kaladin as an example, if he really had thought it was right to murder Elhokar, I'm not entirely sure he would have lost his powers, and might even have been able to do it himself without losing his bond. But he knew it wasn't right, or just, or honorable, or whatever word you want to use for semantics sake. And that is why it was breaking his oaths to stand aside and let it happen. As for the argument about Adolin and whether or not what he did would be acceptable for an Order of the Radiants, there is a WoB that says there are Orders that would be perfectly happy with what he had done. I also don't see how it is any worse or any more murder than what Jasnah did in the alley. She purposely drew those men out so she could slaughter them. And she clearly already was bonded and Ivory didn't seem to have a problem with it. Remember that each of the Orders holds vastly different views on what is 'right.' In conclusion, the only order that really seems to need to prescribe to what is 'right' all of the time seems to be the Windrunners, and even then, perception means a lot. Things are not so black and white.

Because every world needs a way to text

Ah, but the primes of this idea is not with a Listener, but an Unkalaki, a Horneater, which we know to be decedents of human/Listener interbreeding, which is what opens up to both bond versions. Also, the idea is that the Nahel bond would protect you from Voidspren's effect on personality.

Hmm... I agree that I don't really buy the theory of the boon being of Cultivation and the curse being of Odium. However, I also have some mixed feelings towards Kaellok's response... Or maybe I just like arguing. Hum. 1a. Yep. I think there is some of this going on. 1b. Umm... I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to get at. We know that neither the curse nor the boon were the visions. Actually, we know that the visions are from Honor, although he's deceased ish and all, given to Dalinar by the Stormfather. 2. Brandon goes on to say it isn't quite right, so yes, there is something else going on. However, the Stormfather is almost a sliver of Honor. Basically, he is kind of what is left of Honor, but not exactly. Sorry that isn't more clear. What I'm getting at is that the Nightwatcher could be completely of Cultivation without being to Cultivation what the Stormfather is to Honor. 3. Just because Cultivation came with Honor and separately from Odium doesn't mean they couldn't both be trying to control or be giving power to the Nightwatcher. The two are not mutually exclusive. 4. As far as I can tell, all of this matches WoBs. Too lazy to look them up though. a1. I'm pretty sure from this we can gather that that the Listeners were on Roshar pre-Shattering and thus direct creations of Adonalsium. And I doubt the Shards changed the genetics of the life on Roshar and I will need a WoB on that before I believe it. I think all living things became 'of' Cultivation just because of her nature. And as for Odium controlling the Listeners, there is a WoB on this. He said it is similar to how Ruin controlled those spiked Hemalurgically, but that it was through the Voidspren. I guess how he put it was that the Voidspren had a sort of 'hole' Odium could fill to control them and that when the Voidspren bonded the Listeners, it also allowed him to control them. My only presentation on this is that I don't see any problem with the Nightwatcher being evil (not that I really think she is) while also being solely of Cultivation. We may think of Cultivation as 'good,' but we don't really know. Cultivation could very well it is in the best interest of Life all around to destroy mankind and proceed to try to do so. The idea of Cultivation seems very neutral to me. Beyond that, I certainly don't think of 'Darkness' as necessarily 'good,' but he is technically a servant of Honor, which seems to be the most on the 'good' side a Shards intention can get. Things just quite simply aren't as simple as black and white. I feel like I've rambled far to much here... Oh well.

As far as the Heralds are concerned, I think they were determined long ago and they 'can't' be changed? Not positive about the 'can't' part, but they haven't yet. Also, I sure hope we see more Radiants than Heralds, because otherwise we get less Radiants than there are Orders. That would be all sorts of unfair. Anyway, so far as the book's flashback character being in the same Order of the Radiants as the book focuses on, Brandon has said that isn't always going to happen. Or rather, that it might not happen. As for the flashback characters each belonging to a different Order and having one character shown for each Order, I would assume that would be the case, but we don't know for certain. Actually, I'm not even sure if all of the flashback characters will necessarily belong to the Knights Radiant. Again, I would assume so, but again, no certainty. Unless someone else has a WoB...? Oh, this may be belated, but welcome to 17th Shard! Don't worry about things like theories being in other places, disorganized thoughts, or how 'correct' something is too much. People here are generally understanding about it all and are happy to help you out, like giving you links to other information on the topic. Also, if I might suggest, spend a little time just looking around. You will find lots of information and theories that can inspire new ideas, and as I'm sure many here would agree, new ideas are one of the most wonderful things in the world. Well, have fun!

So, I've been thinking about this for a while now, and what would be the best and most efficient way of consuming metals for Allomancers in the future? And I think I have a very, very good solution. A pump. I'm thinking something similar to a diabetic's insulin pump, or at least that sort of idea. They can be fairly out of the way, you get metals in your system just by pressing a button. Your only worry would be making sure it is full before you head out for the day. Or night. Those Allomancers can be quite the insomniacs... Now, obviously, you wouldn't want them to be exactly like an insulin pump, but the general idea could be very beneficial. I would also suggest the be encased in aluminum (expensive, but making it harder to tamper with for other Allomancers). Anyways, let me know what you think of this idea, the obvious pros and cons, etc.

I don't know. I have seen nothing so far that would make it impossible for them to have both bonds. We have seen other places were powers of shard of opposite intentions are mixed <cough cough Scadrial cough cough> Granted, Feruchemy is completely different from having both Allomancy and Hemalurgy.

Well then, both it is

I don't know... Sazed feels like the sort of person who would create an entirely knew metal, if only so he could watch people study it and figure out what they can do with it. And so, ever few decades or centuries, Harmony makes a brand new metal so he can enjoy watching people test them and find the limits of their abilities. This suddenly feels like I made Sazed out to be someone who plays with the lives of lesser beings. Which doesn't fit. It does not fit him at all.

No offense, but you kind of out-clevered yourself here. I mean doesn't an inanimate object have to be, well... an object? And as for my favorite inanimate object, I am going to have to go for the rock that Rock was named for. I mean, it gave him the name Numuhukumakiaki'aialuminor. You know, I'm not sure whether to feel proud that I didn't read on in WoK until I had that memorized or embarrassed...

A species, defined Scientifically <pushes glasses back up the bridge of nose> is a group of living organisms that can interbreed to produce fertile young (this means the vast majority of the time). That being said, perhaps humans and Listeners are the same 'species' (scientifically), just vastly different races. which, ironically, produces more healthy offspring. Bigger gene pool, all that jazz. On the other hand, this is all physically. Our science doesn't extend to realmatics. <lightbulb apears above head> Therefor, I am proposing this: Listeners and humans are the same 'species,' though very different races, as far as the physical realm is concerned. However, on the spiritual realm and/or cognitive realm levels, they are different species! (Personally, I would say both spiritual and cognitive realms are different)

I doubt this has much to do with innate ability. Sure, there might be some talent, but it is more like a trained thing. Just like using bronze takes practice to know what Allomancers are using and how, rather than the pure feeling of knowing Allomancy is being used.

I have an interesting question for you all. Is this (17thshard/internet in general) our cognitive realm? Or rather, can we call it such regardless?

She did actively use the power to kill Ati. She knew that what she was doing would kill Ati, she was doing it on purpose. Therefor, she actively used the power to kill Ati. Not to mention that the way it was described was like she was using it as a weapon. As for it shattering if Sazed hadn't picked them up, that is also not true. If the shard would have shattered from that, it would have shattered regardless. The only thing I know of that Brandon has said that would happen if a shard were not picked up by a holder is that it would develop sentience. And that a shard with it's own sentience would be a very, very bad thing, regardless of the shard.

Also, Lerasium doesn't directly effect a person's personality. They might change due to their new found power, like a leader turning corrupt after being in office, but it doesn't directly change them. Surgebinding is tied to the Nahel bond, which needs a certain type of person. What I mean is that as long as Kaladin stays honorable, being a Mistborn wouldn't effect his Surgebinding abilities. And lets be honest, we all kind of want to see that.