Stormlightning

I was just thinking this. We've been thinking that Adolin got off easy, but maybe we've yet to see the real backlash... These were all good points, but I chose Dalinar's Ascension because the coalition is already bothered enough by Dalinar's being put on a pedestal/speaking for God/etc. There's a good chance this will never really come up, but if it does, I imagine it will rub a lot of people the wrong way.

Much of this is about Adolin. A lot of people have been discussing that Adolin has fallen rather flat to this point, but I think the time will come when we really get to dive into his character (and where a lot of this will be addressed). He just hasn't had his time yet.

Adolin and Kaladin fighting four Shardbearers. Kaladin jumping the chasm and swearing his Second Ideal. Dalinar's vision of Kholinar crumbling and lights winking out in the sky while Tanavast says "This isn't just about you. It's about all of them." (really, all of the visions) Just the whole battle at Thaylen City. The Girl Who Looked Up.

Really, the whole scene above. Because it was such needed justice that Amaram have to deal with a torrent of Wit.

I felt that "Oathbringer wasn't as good and here's why" got a little carried away for a while. I get that some people are going to feel that way about it. But the amount of effort that went into explaining how/why/what could have been better when we know some 70 talented people gave serious input during the books development...I think it's safe to say that all these angles were discussed before publication. "Did anyone else notice this thing that bugged me" is a pet peeve of mine because I always figure there's a good reason it's the way it is. Maybe I'm just giving Brandon too much credit...but he's earned it, in my opinion.

Well Ishar was also a cognitive shadow that held some of Honor's power. I tend to think that the Herald's themselves had extra power beyond their Blades because of their direct connection to Honor. Wish I had a WoB on it, but that's how it's always worked in my head.

I like this theory if only because I was heartbroken when State of the Sanderson 2017 said Dark One was no longer Cosmere. Mraize can be my replacement:)

I've always kind of been under the impression that an Ishar-honorblade-wielding non-Radiant wouldn't be nearly as powerful as a true Bondsmith. We didn't see a whole lot of a power differential between Szeth as a non-Radiant and Kaladin as a true Windrunner, but Kaladin was still very early in his oaths at the time. I'm not sure if there's WoB to back this up, but I'm pretty sure that even without the Stormlight-consuming factor, a full Windrunner would be stronger than an honorblade-wielding one. Basically what I'm getting at is that I don't think a false bondsmith would have the power to get Odium out of the agreement. Whether because they simply wouldn't be as powerful as Dalinar, or because it seems wrong to me to have someone completely unbound by oaths controlling other major oaths, I don't think just gaining Ishar's blade could free Odium from the deal. Back when Tanavast was alive and kicking, I don't think Dalinar's role as "the man holding the remnants of Honor's name and power" existed in the same way that it does now, if it existed at all.

You've definitely got something worth digging at there, although I don't think there's enough evidence to reach any good conclusions. I'm inclined to say it wasn't because of the spren, since there's plenty of other places he could have gone to see that. It might have had to do with budding KR, because--as we later learn--this chasmfiend fight is one of Dalinar's first real uses of his Surges. That's something important that Hoid can't predict, but can be led to by his powers, which seems like how he usually operates. Or it could have been a million other things. I guess we'll RAFO:) (Also, welcome!)

Although I'm not really sold on Roshone = Kelek, I did notice a possible correlation that hasn't been brought up. Roshone is described by Dalinar as a petty lighteyes who managed to get Elhokar's ear. And in the Prologue, we see Nale hanging out with Elhokar one minute, and (someone we believe is) Kelek the next. So there could be some proximity between Elhokar and Kelek that makes it plausible.

I was thinking about making pretty much this exact same thread last night, so bravo on getting to it first! I really want to study Fortune in the Cosmere more, after recently wandering across this WoB: As in, Fortune will be critical to how this whole thing comes together, or at least that's how I interpret it. So I definitely think that Fortune is bigger than the Shards, perhaps it can be keyed to the different Shards in the same way Investiture is. I'm leaning heavily toward your "Reasons it's Dangerous" #2 and #4. I think this is part of what makes Renarin so fascinating, and also part of what will give him such power. He's accessing Fortune, theoretically keyed to Odium, but (probably) being channeled through a being that no longer shares Odium's Intent. Whether that means his use of fortune will push him toward another Intent, or simply give him access to the power without the 'taint', per say, I'm not sure. This makes him a wildcard to Odium/Mr. T., who usually would be able to use their own power/genius to interpret how people will behave according to how they interact with different Intents. I think the theory about Cultivation powering Mr. T's Diagram makes a lot of sense when considering that there's not really any way "Genius" Mr. T could have anticipated "one who makes no sense". That would have had to have been something that [someone's] Fortune gave him, and he assumes they are blacked out because they act erratically or can't be predicted. In actuality, it may be something more like the idea that he isn't being influenced by the Shard he gets his ability from. TL;DR Renarin's unique use of Fortune makes him [a whole new kind of] awesome.

I find it more likely (and still not likely) that some airborne toxin could have been produced in order to disorient those attacking. Lift did just wander into a spot where two Skybreaker apprentices were killed. I believe this is also supported by the interlude with the soulcaster girl. My book is lent out or I would look it up, but I believe that when the crew starts to die off it's related to a smokiness in the air. Or maybe it was something the Sleepless cook put in their food, but when she is finally killed, I think it was due to toxins in the air. @Wit Beyond Measure you may be interested in looking up some quotes from that interlude relating to distorted reality.

I agree that this doesn't refer to the humans conquering from Roshar. For one, humans don't typically refer to their homes as dens. But do the Singers? Actually, I think the characters most likely to refer to their homes as dens are the Sleepless. And we know they did something they want to be redeemed from, from the cover of WoK. Duuuuude...this is legit. Sleepless also works really well for the 'they shall burn' (Aimia was scoured). It is now hollow and forlorn.

10. I would replace Teft with Venli. Just so we have [what will ultimately be] all the Orders when Ash switches (I'm on that boat). 13. I think this refers to Kaladin, even though the tower and crown initially sound like Dalinar. I think Kaladin is eventually going to need to become King of all Radiants like Jezrien. 15. It hurts me to even theorize it, but if these all have to be forward-looking, I fear this could be a reference to Syl. Perhaps voluntarily breaking her connection to Kaladin and becoming a deadeye? 29. I'm also tempted to believe this one is more complicated than Moash and Elhokar, but the fact that the chapter in WoR where Elhokar throws Kaladin in jail is titled "The One Who Killed My Promises" makes me torn. I feel like because of that, it has to refer to Elhokar. 31. Seems to be a reference to the rhythms, which 'no man can hear', but the parshendi can. The black piper would be the one who makes those rhythms. Or it's something sneaky with Wit and his flute. 32. - 33. May refer to an eventual betrayal by the entire order of Dustbringers, or maybe Stonewards. I really like most of your interpretations. Good insights!

I suspect that they are trying to prevent Worldhoppers from getting to Roshar--even beyond people like Hoid and Vasher. There are a lot of really powerful people in the Cosmere that would not want Odium to escape his prison, and would have an interest in stopping him if it seems like it could happen. So they may also just be trying to keep those people out.

@IllNsickly Right with you there on the believably of Jasnah's character. Plus I come from a family with a pretty wide variety of IQs (if you want to call it that) and can add my witness that with high intelligence usually comes a lack of social skills (Taravangian's magical incompatibility of compassion and capacity came as a surprise to me, since I feel like it's rare for those to grow together anyway). I think Jasnah is an invaluable character that will help save the world/solar system/Cosmere/whateverthisseriesisreallyabout. She will definitely have to learn some more compassion and teamwork along the way, and I'm excited to see her learn those things. Yay, growth! I love Jasnah. I think she's an important and necessary sort of person to have around, even if most people prefer them at a distance (which only prevents the development of those social skills people are so eager to see her develop). And the same compassion haters expect from her, they should probably be showing her. Many would say 'she's an adult, and so smart, there's no excuse why she couldn't be compassionate too' but I've rarely found that to be realistic. Most people like Jasnah simply struggle to learn it. It's kind of rare for them to experience the compassion of others, so of course gaining it is slow-going.

This is quite impressive. I am going to do some thinking on this and come back. I've been constantly bothered by evidences throughout the books that imply that there are three systems/sources/somethings significant to Roshar, and yet that Odium is not a part of them. Your theory does a lot to make sense of that. Plus the moons are unquestionably important, since Wit took the time to delve into a story about them, and your interpretation works quite well to me. The violet light vs. golden light thing is probably my biggest selling point, though. They're so obviously different, readers could easily just run with it. It seems exactly like something Brandon would do. Obviously incongruent, but just in the background enough to escape notice. All that said, I do agree with Calderis that you might not be quite on with your interpretation of the Fused, mostly because there's still so much confusion regarding the Fused and voidbinding in the first place. As we clear that up, it might still leave room for much of your theory, though.

And here he is insulting Renarin's name, haha. Well, since we know that "lin" is a pretty popular word for names, maybe they decided to split apart another word and add "lin" inside. You know, because there's something obtusely symmetrical about cutting a palindrome in half and then cutting that in half and sticking something in the middle. So maybe his name is "Darad" and "Linil". Or it could be Dalinilad, which isn't the most ridiculous palindrome we've seen. After all, we've got that Elithenethile-or-something one.

I was just about to make a thread on this because I feel like it's one of the biggest foreshadowing moment for books 4 and 5 that we got in Oathbringer, and we've mostly ignored it! One of the things that stuck out to me was that he mentioned how his grandfather had 1) apparently told him to watch for these people from the islands of the Origin, and 2) had experienced Desolations. Which makes him...remarkably old. I didn't connect the Natanan=half-Aimian thing until you mentioned it, but that leads me to believe that his grandfather was definitely a Siah. Or maybe is a Siah? *waves at Axies*

I seriously can't wait to see Kaladin papa-wolf it up! He'll feel a great responsibility for both, even if he rarely gets to see them. But they may end up being more of a blessing to him than him to them, if they are as wise as little kids often are:)

So, I just want to start a discussion on the Ideals for the Elsecallers. We have good reason (and probably proof in a WoB somewhere) to believe that Jasnah has sworn three Ideals, maybe even four. Obviously the first we know. The second, or at least one of them, I'm inclined to believe is something like "I will be who I am. I will not let others define me." I think this could be one because it fits really well with the way Ivory talks, and his appreciation for the idea of being unmovable and unchanging. Another might be related to finding truth, although I worry that I'm just thinking this because of what we've seen from Jasnah as a character, which might be more related to Veristitilian ideals than Radiant Ideals. What other Ideals might she have found?

For people who don't like her character, it seems that it's because they wouldn't like someone who has that personality. Which I understand, but I think the OP had a great point that just because you wouldn't get along with someone doesn't mean that they aren't extremely well developed. I'm always blown away by how consistent and realistic Brandon's characters are. I understand the people who don't like Jasnah because of how she has treated Shallan. But I think that how she treats Shallan is a personal flaw of hers that is totally consistent with her as a character and it's always nice to see those that others look at as flawless and see that they do have flaws--sometimes really big ones, just not the things we usually think of as flaws. Jasnah's tendency to overlook people because she's processing things miles ahead of them is an awesomely legitimate weakness. I also really like Jasnah because I see a lot of myself in her. It is easy to distain people that aren't like you, who you don't understand. But OP nailed that she really does care and feel, she just takes a lot of self-protective measures and is still trying to find the balance. Can't wait for her to find it.

To me, Renarin is who Evi would have been in the coming conflict if she had not been killed. The one just amazingly good, soft-hearted character in a messed up society and world. It's rare to see such characters become heroes because they usually get mowed down by the bold-and-fearless before they really get a chance to shine (case and point: Evi). As such, he's already a pretty unpredictable asset. And I really like the idea of his nature being something Odium can't predict...I feel like Brandon used that with Ruin but I can't quite remember how. I do think there is a more magical aspect to it though, because of the Diagram, which I expect is related to his bond to Sja-anat. I'm just trying to figure out how that plays such a big role, since the Everstorm and a million other things have also never happened in previous Desolations. I feel like it needs to be big.

Syl's pre-physical realm adventures Vargo and Adro childhood mischief Mraize's Worldhopping Adventure Guide OMG...pre-Dalinar Evi story would probably make me bawl Hoid's Apprentice by Sigzil

61% Willshaper 41% Elsecaller 26% Truthwatcher 24% Lightweaver 22% Stoneward 21% Windrunner 18% Bondsmith 17% Dustbringer 12% Edgedancer 0% Skybreaker I was initially quite surprised by the results, but now that I'm looking at them together I think it fits me really well. Nice job!