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Agreed. Some combinations will work, but I think it highly unlikely that any one person could walk the tightrope of fulfilling the Ideals of all ten orders. So setting the idea of Ten natural Bonds aside, there are a few ways to get all ten Surges onto a single individual. Yelig-nar can do it, but I dont think the result is likely to be Kyle Rayner heroic. Ten Orders might be too hard, but technically you only need Five to get all the Surges. Similarly, Five Honorblades Bond a spren and collect Four Honorblades, etc. A Fabrial Collection to replicate as many surges as possible. Old Magic. Im confident Cultivation could grant this via direct Intervention the way she reformatted Lift.

That's more or less how I see it. The base-effect of Stormlight seems to mimic lower-level surges at times. All Radiants and Squires Heal similar to ReGrowth, for example, and per this example all plants grow in it's presense similar to Growth. Granted, it seems odd to me that both examples I can think of are the Progression Surge. So far all their surge offering Forms have been Voidish Forms of Power that (this time around, at least) only arrived after the Everstorm, so it couldnt be part of the recent Listener culture that ruled during most of the Shattered Plains war. The Coppermind just references WoR Interlude I-1, for what that's worth.

This is precsiely the point I disagree with. Despite our natural attempts as earth-born readers to draw comparisons to our own history (such as the Genteel model), that comparison simply does not work: Nobody took those Genteel feminine pursiuts serisouly because they were, by definition, frivolous pursuits whose only acutal purpose was to relieve boredom between pregnancies. If it was somethign society actually needed, men-folk were expected to handle the "real" work. But you cannot claim that nobody expects a woman to be a serious scholar when female scholars are the only option for the society as a whole (to the point where male scholars have to hide their gender). In this scenario, to claim that female scholars are not taken seriously is to claim that Scolarship itself is not taken seriously, and that is clearly not the case.

Im having trouble laying eyes on the specific WOB, but I recall this being asked before and the answer was that crops would naturally grow at an accelerated rate in the presence of Stormlight, which is why the Parshendi also needed them.

That's the thing, she isn't. She is a world leader in scholarship, raised by a world leader in engineering, and raised to the full expectation that she could and should be those things as proper woman in Vorin society. She would more of an aberration in an earth equivalent society where scholarship might not be expected of women, but in Vorin cultures that is the only possibility for scholars. Saying she's an oddball for taking scholarship seriously is like saying Adolin is an oddball for taking sword duels seriously: it's simply not the case in context of the in-world culture.

Agreed. Jasnah doesnt have an actual objection to visual Art, or to Art in general, she simply doesnt see purely ascetic pursuits as a worthy use of time. Scholarly drafting and photo-realistic record-keeping are extremely useful to her, as she eventually admits. Her main issue had more to do with her preconceived assumptions about what sort of Art she could expect from a teenage "Brightness" trying to gain entry to the Alethi Court. Which, honestly, surprises me as a go-to response. Sure, that sort of more frivolous Art is common among women of the Vorin cultures, and she'd have likely been forcefully exposed to it for a lot of her Life. But the flip side is all scholarly art would have been 100% women too. It's not like here where women were often historically relegated to the casual pursuits while the Men-folk handled the scholarship, on Roshar women owned both sides of that coin.

That's probably my real problem here: We just dont have enough datapoints, so all guesses are as much based on thematic guesses as mechanical ones. In one case we have a godmetal that acts in all practical ways like a normal metal (Atium) for all three Arts, aside from sourcing allomantic burns in Ruin rather than Preservation. We also have Lerasium that is the only example of a permanent effect from Allomancy, and we have little to no idea what it does in either other Art. Then we have Harmonium, which doesnt really act like any of them, since it absorbs and emits both Allomancy and Feruchemy, burns up while being used for allomancy specifically, and can be switched on and off externally. And of course we have the Trellium mystery, with way more questions than answers.

I wouldnt be at all surprised to find that there is a cache somewhere, but I would be a lot more surprised to find out that Taln had info on it. Literally anyone else should have more chance to have learned that sort of thing, but hes the one that really needs to have been trapped on Braize for the relevant years. For him to have that information, he'd either need to have had a means of getting information about Roshar on Braize, or he'd have had to learn about it very recently from whichever secret society is responsible. Well, Aimia is the biggest Geography related mystery currently, maybe there?

I think the bit you Bolded is precisely the key point. There are two kinds of Mists still, presumably the same Ruinous Black mist and the more widely known white Preservation Mist that we saw before, they have not merged into a Single Harmony Mist or anything, so at most each will be primarily one shard with at most trace impurities of the other. Now, if you have access to both for your distillation process, Harmonium is certainly on the table. But if you only have access to one, you'd be faced with needing to distill 50% of your final product from just those trace impurities.

Im going with Yes, they have all the exact same physical, chemical, and electromagnetic properties as the metals of the Cosmere Earth-standard planet it's based on (ie Yolen), and since Yolen predated the Metallic Arts they should be based on that same template.

That was basically my same line of though, i just got stuck on the idea of them having all that plate sitting around inert for a couple centuries before they figured it. Ive always thought it odd that they see Plate and Blades as equally rare when logically I would have expected there to be a lot more blades than plate based on the Ideal gates to get them; if you add to that the idea that Blades were immediately useful but Plate was inert and useless for the first few generations before they got them moving, I would have expected there to be even fewer surviving sets of Plate than there are now.

The WOB said that Lerasium can be distilled from the mists, and separately that Lerasium and Atium could theoretically be distilled from Harmonium. But I dont think you could distill Harmonium from Mists, any more than you could Distill Harmonium from Lerasium or Atium. Even though Harmony holds both, and Harmonium has begun to form, the two Shards have not actually Merged, and I strongly suspect the Mist is still purely a Perservation thing, or at least 99%. If you could get Harmonium out of the Mists, I think it would take a metric f-ton more of the mists to get the equal ratios of Preservation-to-Ruin than it would to get pure Lerasium.

Oh, I entirely agree that it's within his power to do, just as making a Godmetal that has functions in the Metallic Arts is within Trell's Power, but that alone won't determine whether or not Sazed's Investiture would be different enough to manifest anything "Red" when it did so. True, though Im not sure we can count on the material forms of Investiture to follow any sort of normal Density conversions during this non-mechanical, supernatural process, given that the Liquid state is actually the most Investiture-dense, rather than the solid or the gaseous forms.

He says it reacts like a super-cesium, and cesium (like all alkali metals) reacts explosively to any moisture, even high humitidy. The water molcules in Blood will qualify just as much as the spit, etc that it would contact if swallowed, which we know would cause an explosion. I dont understand your logic here? Hemalurgy is of Ruin, not Preservation, and even in that case Atium spikes cannot self-charge. Certainly possible, that's often cited as the leading theory for what Lerasium would have done feruchemically.

I have an issue with that, but it might be an irrational objection. All Feruchemy we've seen so far is about Storing and Tapping an attribute that already exists in the Spiritweb, and it's always a temporary effect that lasts as long as the Store of Investiture remains. The concept of Tapping a Metalmind to gain a permanent Change seems counter and outside the way the System works. Of course, the exact same thing could be said about Lerasium, and it very much existed, so I guess another exception could exist for a godmetal.

That's fair, though I cant think of any particular reason why you'd have to do the process (whatever it might be) indoors. But so long as you can access a reasonable supply of it (and Sazed doesnt choose to withdraw it for whatever reason), Id think it would work. Granted what qualifies as "a reasonable supply" might be a room's worth of volume or might require acres and acres of Mist, with all the exponentially increased logistical issues that you get with any large-scale manufacturing process. As far as Sazed goes, I agree that he could certainly and easily prevent you from using the mists. There are some limits somewhere with the God materials, given that Ruin could prevent the Atium Horde from being Burned even though he wanted to. Follow-up question is how "Red" you folks think this distillation process might be. Lerasium is fundamentally the result of Leras himself rather than Preservation. So I wonder if re-configuring Sazed's Investiture into the now extinct form that existed during Leras's time would be a significant enough rework to cause the corruption Red-shift.

Id agree with that. When it's used to mimic Allomancy it burns away rather than creating something permanent, which would place it's effects closer to Atium than Lerasium.

Resist as part of some natural function, or resist in the sense that the Mists are a direct extension of Sazed and he might object? If the former, that's an interesting idea, how so? If the latter, I dont see him ever needing to do it (Im assuming he can make more Mistborn if he wanted to), but he seems to have a very hands-off policy to what the mortals of the world Choose (based on Marsh's statements). The only circumstance I can think of where Sazed could need Lerasium specifically, is to use it's "Other" property, it's ability to Connect you to the Shard of any alien godmetal it is alloyed with. Im not sure one shard could just Wish that sort of thing into existence without the other Shard's cooperation.

While I think you can get around the whole explosive when wet issue with Allomancy, Harmonium and Hemalurgy is more problematic. Allomancy only requires you to have it "inside" you, and WOB states that piercings can work and be burned. We also know from Vin that a spike can be used like a piercing, being inserted and removed repeatedly in what I believe was a normally Pierced Ear, and it functions fine in that circumstance. That being said, I dont think you could actually Charge spike using that loophole. We know the insertion Bind Point and the Harvest Point are not necessarily the same, and we've been told in several WOB's that the process is lethal without magical intervention. And in general we've been told that the blood being in motion is a specific part of that. All that to say a charged spike is Invested enough to work without actually touching the blood, but I think it's the Charge itself that allows that to work, meaning you'd have to go the full Blood Contact route to get the initial Charge into it.

They were? I was under the impression that there were no mistborn prior to the beads being used (aside from Rashek making himself a Fullborn).

Entirely possible I suppose. My only real problem with that is that, unlike Lerasium for Allomancy, this would not explain how Feruchemy came about initially, since there was nothing close to Harmonium in Era 1.

This came up in another thread, but I thought it deserved it's own thread: WOB is that Harmonium generally cant be burned for practical reasons: it reacts explosively to water like an alkali metal, so even putting it in your mouth could be lethal, making it impossible swallow and burn. That being said, we now know that there is actually nothing special about the Stomach, rather its more about being perceived as "inside you", and WOB confirms that Piercings can be burned. So if you had a properly made, healed and dried piercing, you should be able to then safety place and burn Harmonium in it. That being the case, I'd like to see what theories folks have for what effect it might have. Based on what it does currently and my own guesses about the how (which is to say based on almost nothing), I think burning it would project a temporary Cognitive Shadow of yourself, a Ghost-clone. Ive always pictured it's current use as taking a Charge and then creating a sort of temporary/"holographic" spiritweb that can then emit the Power independently as it if were a real person. On that logic I figure that Burning it would create a more complete version of that pseudo-Spiritweb, rather than just the piece that creates and Emit the Metallic Arts Powers. Put another way, I think the current use is creating and activating a temporary version of the spiritweb, but restricted to just the sort of Chunk that could otherwise be held in a Nicrosil Spike. Thoughts and Theories?

Harmonium cant be burned. So, WOB is that it cant be burned for practical reasons: it reacts explosively to water like an alkali metal, so even putting it in your mouth would be lethal, making it impossible to burn. That being said, we now know that there is actually nothing special about the Stomach. Its more about being perceived as "inside you", so for example WOB confirms Piercing can be burned. So if you had a properly made and healed piercing, you should be able to then wear and burn Harmonium... Based on hat it does currently and my own guesses about the how (which is to say based on almost nothing), I think burning it would project a temporary Cognitive Shadow of yourself, a Ghost-clone.

To the OP: Medallions are the most direct and logical way. Forgery could potentially do it, but it would take one hell of a backstory... Soulcasting could theoretically do it, but it would take a hell of a Spiritweb expert and a boatload of Investiture. Hoid could probably do it, a Sliver of Preservation and potentially certain others (Ruin maybe, Cultivation probably) could do it. There's not much that is supposed to be outside the capabilities of AonDor, with enough effort and research. If it could be leveraged to alter the Spiritweb without being required to maintain those alterations (ie a permanent change like Soulcasting, not a maintained/reversible one like Forgery). With Zero evidence, I personally think it would be possible to accomplish with a creative use of Breaths, Heightenings, and/or Awakening, but the Commands necessary would be severely complicated. Feruchemy seems to be very much in line with the Endowment aspect of Breaths, it just seems to me like that should be easier for it to mimic than thinks like a Shardblade... Nope, we know that alloy would simply permanently make you an Atium misting (a Seer). I had entirely forgotten about that, so let me ask you a clarifying question. The Coppermind says that all Keepers save that one were killed. Were there potentially any Full Ferucehmists that would not be counted as members of Keeper Organization? Children I supposed might have been alive with the potential but not yet manifesting it, but Im also wondering if there were any groups of Feruchemists at the time that would not have been counted as part of the Keeper organization. Were all Ferris of the age part of the Keepers, or was that just the primary sect?

Well, that is how Leras described it, and several WOB's seem to support that interpretation. There's some feedback, sure, like how your Cognitive Aspect can alter/impact your Spiritual Ideal state (ie. with healing), but in most instances it seems like the Spiritual Realm is dictating the Cosmere Reality.