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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
If possible, would be grateful if you could pass it over. Would've been best if you didn't claim, because the Elims can always destroy it by targeting you, but that's just a risk at this point I think and forces them to take an action. If I die tonight for some reason, you'll get it back. But I've been asking for one if possible to see if I can trigger Wrath on an Elim and would appreciate the extra protection - if I trigger Wrath successfully and still have it, I've no objections to passing it back to you.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Beautiful. Ash in the snow. Shells in the foam. Rise of the flame. If you think that's a claim, you haven't been following the last five pages of this thread- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
B-but...you told me there were no secret rules when I asked... And no secret secret rules... ...And no extra special secret secret rules.... ....No, why would you think it was one? I'm Seraphimon Edited to add: Shared without comment, merely a question mark.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Instructions unclear, ma'am. If a GM kills a player for asking the same questions repeatedly, or that another player has asked, what happens to the Wrath %?- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Normal Wrath only triggers if you kill someone. Shades are harsh instructors: you don't get Wrathed just by having tried to kill. Ya gotta really get deep in their blood and guts and murder the poor bastard, you know? Then they get all red glowy eyed and then you gotta leg it but you're probably dead by then. Trust me, I'm the Expert But seriously - had to be retributive and wasn't mine. Sart didn't kill anyone else, as we can see from the corpse. Didn't hit my protection either.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Just to confirm: if Wrath triggers but the target is protected, the % remains?- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
? I think this misses as well that this implies he's fine with potentially killing a vig of either alignment - Village or Elim. Remember the SE protect kills and especially in Village vig world, Archer has no way of knowing that the Village vig attacking him would have protection. (Sart did not, or so it is theorised.) We don't know this for sure. It's our hypothesis, and it's the best existing one in my view that doesn't overcomplicate things. It doesn't entail the Elim kill was prevented again necessarily - it could also entail that Wrath was triggered because the counter resets everytime Wrath is triggered. (Actually it'd have to be triggered, one way or another.) However, since Sart would have failed to successfully kill Archer, Sart basically had to have triggered a Shade Expert's protect for him to have been killed by the Shades. I still have my protect. Meaning I did not trigger Wrath. I also think it's worth noting that Archer doesn't disagree that he was attacked, i.e. that he lost his claimed SE protect ability. This means we do have to account for an attack on Archer, which is currently hypothesised to have been Sart using a Crossbow. Sorry, confused this with QF3 (I know, embarrassing) where there was multiple blobs of Glowpaste One more note. Glowpaste is a Day action. If we hypothesise the use of a Spellbook: -We had a 20% chance of seeing someone go insane in the N2 write-up. This did not happen. To be sure, 20% isn't that big, but it won't explain Alv. -The user would've had to have targeted TKN in the Day. That's not the most significant thing but it rules out Alv, who used VitC. -That's really long-distance set-up and the ability to tell TKN had Glowpaste somehow. Spellbook's too nifty to waste randomly redirecting people in the hopes it'll pay off, and changing during the Day is risky because if you go insane the next Turn, this implies at Night, at which point it should be obvious it was you. @The Known Novel - Had a PM with anyone? Any way someone could've guessed you had Glowpaste? Pretty much implies that all V!Archer worlds require us to take seriously the fact that a protectless Shade Expert is significant enough that the Elims let TKN lie to get us to waste two exes on Archer, after which we kill TKN, but hey, it's totally worth it.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
There are at least three Writers in existence. Depending on whether the one Writer I'm in a PM with is lying or not about certain things. They claimed to not have sent in a Night Message - and no yeah I was like "that's Evil af" but Night Messages are free actions so sending one in or not doesn't affect being able to say, kill. I'm not going to clarify how many I have but it's consistent with what I know that Fae had one. Edited to add: No. I was attacked N2. As this also implies, I didn't protect me N2 (having done that N1.) I protected someone else neither me nor Devo who I'm not naming because that's a guaranteed kill. Edited to add 2: When I say consistent, I mean nothing about this situation prevents Fae from having had one with Sart.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
You claimed to have self-protected as a Shade Expert. This means you still have Silver Bones. You are suggesting that the Elims think it is a fundamentally great idea to get E!TKN to lie in order to get us to lynch you twice and kill you when you don't currently have very much Village cred, and don't even have your Shade Expert protect left any longer, in order to kill a role that is only a functional threat to them when the protect is still in existence. I'm not seeing the logic here. Mind if that comes after the PM with DeTess, Writer? The DeTess one is kind of critical right now.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
I'm sorry for trying to kill you? D1 me: "Aman no WiM though I don't like this " Aman: -bro offensive- D1 me: "Aman is of the Light I will stake him out as bait for the fiends of darkness oh and I guess kill Mat too" D1 me: "Welp I guess no one evil was interested" Aman: "..........................." Elan: "That's because he's Evil damnit Kas also this was the worst idea." If it helps, my VitC actually cycled between you, me, and Archer >> More general side-request to all: Ok. Slight thing here. I'd like to ask for a Pallid Mask or another Elder Sign Pendant to be passed to me but only if you are willing. I absolutely recognise if you'd prefer to hang on to it. I mostly ask because if I make the wrong Lurch tonight, I'd prefer to have a second shot - dying taking down an Elim or at least burning their protection and potentially driving someone insane via Wrath sounds like a decent way to go to me, and I think it's a waste otherwise. Again, totally get it if you want to hang on to it, and no pressure. Thanks. There was a reason my preferred strategy was summoning the NK to me Edited to add: Since item passing is last on OoA, if for some reason I die tonight, you'll get your item back- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
@Steeldancer Hi. You alive m8? I still think you're probably Village but we have a flipped Elim so zero excuse that there's nothing to work off. At least say something so the Elims are forced to kill vils rather than can free disappearances Edited to add: @Matrim's Dice - Imma laugh if your D1 "what about an Ash flashwagon :3" and wanting to do the flashwagon Elim exe thing that happened in LG84 would've actually found an Elim >> (Given the Ash/Archer team theories and the current E!Archer credences - multiple A team suggested by @|TJ| does look increasingly likely.)- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Uh. No. They're not losing, I refuse, it's not over until it's over say no to Village complacency >:( I LIVED THROUGH TOO MANY REVERSAL GAMES BRO YOU CANNOT DO THIS TO ME. WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE. THE FORESTS WILL DEVOUR US ALL AND THEY WILL SACRIFICE US, WARMMHA HELP US LIGHT HELP US LIGHT SAVE OUR SOULS It doesn't feel worth it, yeah, given Archer has expended a protect anyway. But it does make me laugh a bit because it rhymes with I think Elan's MR in which I was Evil, TKN also action-scanned me C3, saw I didn't kill (think I used some other action - ah VS lens.) Edited to add: I know you self-pressed on Archer and I s2g I looked at the 'Elims are losing anyway' and asked, "Is this a perspective slip" >>- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
You can do the analysis bro No one's stopping you, I'm absolutely down for it. Just...also really tapped out rn. But think you were pro-Archer train anyway right? Edited to add: Just to confirm. The current theory is that Alv's insanity is just Alv getting Horrored, yeah? Nothing to do with Spellbook shenanigans?- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Comes down to about five or six different rule clarifications I've mailed in to Elan for theorising. Eiwlil probably tearing her hair out over mech but it's fine, I live for mech, I'll handle the mech and go a bit slower on the analysis since everyone else loves it and I probably have a PhD in mech now after having to figure out what happened N1. My health won't let me Vmax right now and if I don't want to be forced to sub out then I should probably learn how to triage what needs my attention and what doesn't. To the Writer who Connected Me With Devo: Sorry. Didn't want to keep on requesting, but this is pretty crucial. Could you set up a PM between me and DeTess please? There's some things that are probably better shared before I get to see tonight if I've inherited Gamma's crown as the Ironborn :eyes:- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Yeah. But it can't be Araris I don't think. Edited to add: @The Known Novel - How much Glowpaste do you have left?- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
If he's a Silver-Boned, he should not have gone insane from surviving an attack. That should have triggered Broken Survivors.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
That would be my read, yes. Actually I think it's good - Tokomon reads are mild positive It's fine, I just appreciate how you are the Be Reasonable thread person and I've given up doing hardcore analysis and have gone straight into Patamon Avenge mode Edited to add: Don't understand this?- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Mild here, but fair.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
If you have Silver Dust, or extra Silver Dust, then why not have the SE protect the teammate you think most likely to get vigkilled and have the DK use Silver Dust? SE can protect against players or Shades - Silver Dust only does Shades. I don't feel the second hypothesis is too secure. Mentioning again that Sart isn't the most communicative player in PMs. Had that experience even when I was a proven neutral rallying the Village in LG83, and a more or less confirmed Villager in a different game. It's just his playstyle. @Elandera - Do you allow kill overrides? I just feel there's a lot of places this story doesn't make sense for me to be willing to buy it. Edited to add: Anything useful he said? Edited to add 2: He says this, and then it turns out Araris is Evil which explains the extra Silver Dust, but then, TJ is Evil too, and it's the team I mentioned C1 I want to lie down and die rather than have to deal with ;-; I love being a Villager. And a role that means "just be more aggressively in-your-face pillar of Village discussion Kas than you ever Kased in your life Kas." Although keeping up that was - tiring. Because COVID blues. But. Making me need to do my duty by exeing all my bros... Look @Matrim's Dice's game deeply traumatised me. I'm scarred for life.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
TKN Is this the C3 prophecy, @The Known Novel? Ah soddit the heart wants what it wants. And right now...right now... It wants to... BURN THE SICK AND TWISTED IN HEAVEN'S PURIFYING FIRE! Archer-da-fe time.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
ilu- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Yeah ideally you change with green. Also try to only put one vote in one post. I've seen people start a post with one vote and end with another. Yes, but unclear and difficult for the GM to parse. But for safety's sake, if it helps ease your mind: Fae TKN.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
I don't really believe it's plausible for there to be two given the exact cycling Lurchers issue in Tyrian, and it makes even less sense with crossbows being a oneshot and in light of your decisions. Role clearing isn't advisable and I wouldn't want people to get the wrong impression here Why would an Elim crossbow shoot you when you're being set up for an exe if Village? For that matter, why wouldn't an Elim crossbow have simply shot on N1 or later? The crossbow user doesn't have to claim. You could just as easily be set up for a Village vig shot which is conveniently both what happened and the one case you didn't want to think about. That's an interesting choice. Edited to add: It's...preferred to green especially if dealing with certain GMs with too-long games that use Tallybot though I think Tallybot now doesn't need green either. But in reality most GMs just count last red vote. So no, it's fine, my vote's logged as on TKN at the moment.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Sorry. Wasn't paying close attention, I somehow thought there was already four or five. I'm on low-effort COVID mode now. (D1 has still not been done, I spent all day sleeping. Now that I no longer need to keep up the 'image' of high-octane all engines blazing Kas to draw two to three consecutive kills I'm just crashing hard...) Yeah but I'm not fully sure he's Evil right now. But...you know. LG93. I give you guys a lot of benefit of the doubt. You know this. I go back and forth about him. What I'd say is this: I do think choosing to hit me specifically is a choice. Because E!me would've not gone for the guessing game between Kas and Devo - too risky to miss yet another kill since there's a 50% chance of a Lurch that burns through resources on the DK. Elims win by outnumbering so it's a numbers game. Plus I personally thought I overacted just a tad. I don't think just any player would still insist on repeating the control kill. I'd honestly thought/expected to see a fringe player kill, or a kill on say, Illwei/DeTess etcetera. One reason I could see the insistence on it would've been if Araris didn't want to take the risk - I do know he's insanely flexible about his Elim doctrine, but I also know that he doesn't like to mess around with scans when Evil. That being said, Araris is also very savvy and let's be real, we've had a history of PMing since AG8 by this point, across different alignments and the same ones. (Aww wow this now sounds sentimental I assure you it's not.) We've BSed each other a few times and he probably knows by now when I'm pulling one. It's just as possible he didn't find the Glowpaste claim convincing and so if Evil would've advised against the strike on me. Am I giving him more slack again? Probably. But for me, the bait was less about necessarily making the test under circumstances that would find an Elim and more about trying to improve the odds that I'd get hit, and so another Villager's life would be saved for another Day.- 1163 replies
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Long Game 94: The Call of the Forest of Hell
Kasimir replied to Elandera's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Good luck! TKN- 1163 replies
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