Kasimir

Indeed, one has to roast that :eyes: Let me know your character name and Background choice! Welcome! Do remember to read the SE General Rules and Etiquette policy (linked below) to get started!

Wha-?

May want to give me a character name Hopefully; there's a real chance most players might not hit the full five but that's alright, the whole point of going for maximum five points is to allow some differentiation. Ideally it won't often get to the point where I as the GM have to make a judgement call.

I'm fine with this and will explicitly take the referencing grand speeches/saying of great men as your condition for computing your SP.

Alright! Keep in mind that if you don't pick or make your own Background by the start of the game, I'll assign one to you

Rule Clarifications: Player List: Spectator List: Pinch-Hitter List:

Captain Kezin stared at the cooling body of the Svordish Ambassador and felt the beginnings of a terrible headache pounding in his temples. He’d known, of course. Coded messages exchanged the traditional way had indicated this was a potential danger. Emotions in the Rose Empire these days ran high around the Svordish. You had decades of raids to thank for that. The Svordish navy was…uncontested, for now, even if the Emperor’s loyal forces had an advantage defending their home territory. And you didn’t have to be a fool not to realise that something like this murder was especially possible with the Emperor of the Eighty Suns…ailing. Certain truths had to be admitted. It was a delicate time for the Rose Empire, and Senior Arbiter Wuzhi of the Discovery Faction had made many enemies, in the time of the Faction’s prominence. Perhaps too many enemies, Kezin reflected, if the Svordish Ambassador was now dead in the middle of the faction’s private compound. And there was the matter every reasonable person tried very hard not to think about: the death of a Striker general branded a traitor, five years ago. Strangled at dusk, of course. You tried very hard not to think about certain things. Matters of Empire, Senior Arbiter Wuzhi had called it. Privately, because Kezin would never be so foolish as to ever give voice to the thought–well. You could acknowledge that there were certain irregularities about the death of General Yuen. You could acknowledge, too, that the General had been vital to the security of the Rose Empire, with the stirrings of rebellion among the MaiPon, and the Svordish raids slicing into the territorial integrity of the Empire. You could remember the Battle of the Red River. You could do all this, and still be troubled by the matter of an extremely dead Svordish Ambassador, whose death would need to be explained to the Senior Arbiter, to the factions of the Rose Empire, and to the Svordish, with whom the Empire was now at a tenuous peace. Above his paygrade, that last two, for which Kezin cautiously gave thanks to the eighty splendid suns which, one at a time, blessed the Empire with their radiance, before fading again into the darkness below the civilised world. Senior Arbiter Wuzhi was extremely displeased. The death of the Svordish Ambassador was one matter entirely. He could not say he’d expected it. After all, that was entirely the point of having a guard selected from the best the Discovery Faction had to offer. The fact that the guard had failed in this aspect was extremely troubling. It pointed to certain things, certain undercurrents he’d done his best to navigate since five years ago. You made the best decisions you could, Senior Arbiter Wuzhi reflected. There were certain affairs an upstart Striker general was not the best-placed to appreciate, and then there were the desires of the Emperor to consider. And the good of the Empire. They had peace with the Svordish, now. And precious time to put down the stirrings of rebellion in MaiPon, time to ensure the stability of the Empire. You needed these things. Sometimes, peace had a price. The Svordish had named theirs, though it was not the sort of thing you preserved on paper at any point. Worse than the death of the Ambassador, however, was the fact a sensitive and extremely critical letter had gone missing. Wuzhi ground his teeth together and tried not to pace in the room. He stared at the spreading pool of blood, at the knife protruding from the back of the Svordish Ambassador. Facedown in his blood. He’d turned his back to whoever it was that’d killed him. That sort of thing, it meant something, didn’t it? He’d never seen it coming. Or he’d trusted the killer. Turned his back to the knife. Wuzhi found himself thinking about a Striker general. About five years ago. History, now. Long burned, washed away. But his ghost still haunted the Rose Empire. You never seemed to be able to let old ghosts die. “I’ve ordered the compound locked down,” Captain Kezin said, quietly. He understood, at least, the gravity of the situation. “No one will leave until the killer is found.” “There was a letter,” Wuzhi said, brusquely. “An extremely sensitive letter, crucial to the future of the faction…and the Empire.” Offers of Svordish aid. A certain price exacted: concessions would be required, of course. The negotiations had only begun. It grated, accepting Svordish aid. But the Discovery Faction was struggling to maintain its prominence. The Emperor was ailing on his throne…and the vultures, the other damnable factions, were already circling, sensing weakness. It required a careful play here, an ability to take the long view of things. Captain Kezin didn’t blink. He’d seen the worst the Discovery Faction had to offer. That made him someone who could be relied on, as far as Wuzhi was concerned. “Find me that letter, Captain,” Wuzhi commanded. “And find me that killer, by dawn, even if you have to execute every last soldier and servant in the compound.” He yanked the bloody knife out of the corpse, handed it to Kezin, who took it, his hand steady. A standard-issue knife, the hilt wrapped with cord. The sort of weapon you’d expect any soldier of the Discovery Faction to carry. Kezin swallowed. He pressed his fist to his heart in salute. There were certain things you could expect, Wuzhi thought, watching the captain leave, if you knew a man had seen the worst of the Discovery Faction. He understood necessity. His loyalties, at least, were not to be questioned. The killer, whoever it was, had damnable timing. And had left Wuzhi an extremely delicate mess to disentangle. He’d take it out on them, even if Kezin had to kill his way through every last person in the compound. The company assembled in the square of the compound. Kezin eyed them all warily. One of them was fidgeting with a belt buckle. Nervousness? Or just wariness? He raked his gaze across the assembled ranks, searching for anyone who had a missing dagger. None of them had come wearing theirs. It stood to figure, Kezin thought, annoyed. It never was that simple. Even if you have to execute every last soldier and servant in the compound, Wuzhi had ordered. Kezin had heard the coldness in the man’s voice. The last time he’d heard the frosty tone had been five years ago. He remembered it all, even if he wasn’t supposed to. “The Svordish Ambassador has been murdered,” Kezin announced to the soldiers gathered before him in the square, the company forming ranks as though preparing for inspection. “I’ve ordered the compound locked down.” A dicey proposition, but there were men he’d handpicked and trusted, even if in theory the entire company was meant to be handpicked and trusted with securing the high-level diplomatic meeting. A lapse he would deal with later on. There were gasps. Some of them didn’t appear shocked. Kezin memorised the faces, tried to decide if he’d expect a pretence of shock, or if the killer would have already known. “The killer is also a thief. A crucial letter has been stolen. I expect we’ll find it in the belongings of the one who did the deed. This means that at least one of you is a traitor.” Was that soldier looking down at his feet in shame? “The Senior Arbiter has ordered that we find the killer by dawn. Lieutenant!” His lieutenant started. Kezin took note of that, too. Normally, he would have vouched for his own lieutenant. But in times like this… No, Kezin thought. He held no one at all above suspicion. “I’m leaving you directly in charge of the search efforts. Every hour, I expect all of you to report in on your progress. We are ordered to find the killer even if I must execute every last soldier and servant in the compound.” He gave all of them his most unimpressed glare. “Get me the killer.” QF66: Full River Red Almost two centuries before a boy named Yazad becomes the Emperor of the Eighty Suns, the factions of the Rose Empire see what might very well become the greatest crisis of their time Five years ago, a Striker general was strangled, at dusk. After the eighty splendid suns had set. Dusk was the time for fell deeds, for acts of empire that need not be subject to common scrutiny. The body was burned; the bones scattered, the ashes washed away downriver. There are to be no shrines, no rallying points for dissent. Historians sometimes point to events, draw connections. A stray horse, the loss of a province. Silken strands, from the death of a much-loved general, to the present. A Svordish ambassador is found murdered, hours before a high-level diplomatic meeting with Senior Arbiter Wuzhi of the Discovery Faction. A sensitive letter has gone missing. The current Emperor of the Eighty Suns is ailing, and already, the factions circle like vultures. Wuzhi has ordered the compound locked down. You have until dawn to find the murderer. Water trickles through the clock. May the truth be brought to the light of the eighty suns. General Rules: Win Conditions: Mechanics: Roles: Backgrounds: Quick Links Havon was killed! He was the Svordish Ambassador! Sign-ups are open now and will close on Tuesday, 23rd May 2023, at 0000hrs SGT (GMT +8). Rollovers will take place at the same time. The IM for the game is @Araris Valerian. Please also be reminded to desist from posting in the thread until I can reserve the next post. I will always do so in order to collect both the current player list and the most recent set of rule clarifications for easy access.

I've sent my ruleset in for approval. If Striker still can, I'll consider it pre-approval; otherwise I'm ready to run and don't think it should take too much wrangling in committee because it's not especially complicated.

Fifth mentioned he can't, so it's about whether Striker can. No idea about Karn but if it gets down to me, I can.

Ask Aman :eyes:

I've written an essay about Steel's V meta, as backed up by Fifth, which we both used to accurately read Steel in the recent AG, in C1 of the thread, which stands up to even TJ's arguments about it - TJ's counter-arguments are demonstrably wrong. I'll go back and check for it again if I have the time but it's there and this is a legit "go read it if you want to but I'm sticking with it right now." @Elandera was mentioning the can't re-target twice in a row applies to everyone when I was clarifying some of the mechanics with her. I'll recheck my GM PM but I think this is worth reclarifying again if so. pupillary reflex Edited to add: Oh great we can't remove this ok please ignore this I was relooking up the Glasgow Coma Scale for reasons and I have this bloody thing c/ped and not the Steel stuff >> Anyway. My post on Steel: TJ's challenge: My response to his counterarguments: Nothing about Steel's subsequent posts deviate from this pattern of behaviour: in fact, they entrench it. Barely remembered to stay alive, isn't even here, nearly got filter-killed until Elan extended mercy after pleading from Walin. This ain't filter-dodging. This is just extremely disengaged dgaf. I'm willing to accept a 10% chance he recognises he behaves like this when Village and is deliberately milking this to avoid scrutiny, but this is where my point about filter-dodging normally cutting it way less close shows up, shaving the rest down to 10%. There's one game where he's Village and doesn't behave like this and that's LG86 but again, patterns of behaviour.

Thoughts: -Fae was a bit of a "most suspicious in the mech pool" shot. I'm still wary of the TJ and Mat escape hatches. -I don't know if I'll survive past this cycle as I have Exotic Lurching Decisions to be making I'll state here for good measure that I think that if there's a second futile shot in the mechpool, it's then worth relooking the Mat and TJ escape hatches. I think the valence for distancing is kind of wrong for Mat but I'm a bit disturbed by Mat's receding WiM, and wouldn't really take that sort of thing for granted. -I'm willing to revise Ash - in an <Ash/Alpha> pair-off, V!Ash still feels more likely, but honestly at this point I don't feel especially confident. I'd say depends as well on any information that we can get from Devo. -Side-thought to watch out for: Elims may exploit the no re-targeting rule to have a recently RBed member send in the kill as that player cannot be roleblocked again by Devo. @Devotary of Spontaneity, just be aware. -I am currently okay with Village reads on Devo, DeTess, and Steel. Steel is a special case as I feel fine with this meta read but also doubt he's been putting in the kill due to extreme inactivity. Properly, think of it like this: : Devo, DeTess, Steel -I would say that this category is / null+: TJ, Mat Honestly really tempted to revise TJ or Mat but am aware this isn't quite the time to do it. I'd say if there's further failure, consider looking back at them. Kind of don't believe I'll be alive to worry about it by then. I shall deliberately leave 'alive' vague as to whether I mean in this game or bloody COVID woes >> -/ Strictly null: Alv, Alpha, Araris -/ Null-: Ash, Illwei, JNV Theoretically I think Illwei should be higher but I've mostly left her here because of mechpool concerns, which should be especially important at EoD. I will say Ash's passivity especially in a game where mech analysis is possible is not necessarily encouraging, even with my view that Ash's post with Aman doesn't feel Evil. It's sort of at the stage where I guess I describe it as "I don't think killing Ash helps us win the game but I'm not really gonna stop people because eh." Nothing much to say for JNV, apart from the V!Alpha read. JNV's sort of disappeared from this game and theoretically that sort of disengagement is closer to V!JNV (which Stick and I had a whole Conversation about for MR63), but...Like seriously? How many times can this be true? 'Cause... Ok. Say I ignore the above. The above is sort of consistent so far. Let's look at a combination of stuff (e.g. mechpool) and what I feel. : Devo, DeTess, Steel, Illwei, JNV, Araris : Alv, Alpha, TJ, Mat, Ash There's probably a craptonne of mistakes in there somewhere but it's purely where I am in terms of vibes/feel. Prima facie even if there's every single Elim in Gizamon there's at least two people who don't belong there but CBA to figure out who. Edited to add: @Elandera? Is the vc right?

Second invisible vote on Araris? I'm going to take a nap and then look at this again.

Are you trying to prove you could never use a Day spellbook? Hmm. Ok, this does increase my suspicion that it is actually a Writer team now.

I think it's possible that Village intervention eclipsed the need to protect Archer (this assumes they were beaten to the punch and preferred not to overtly act if they didn't have to) but between the two, would probably lean E!Alpha at this point. Keep in mind that the Mat train was already a CW to Archer, which Aman had stacked onto. So it's not as though there was no attempt to protect Archer: there was and it came right out the gate from Aman, who voted Mat after Rollovet. To refresh your memory, this gave us the votecount: Ironically, Archer is the one who then pulls off the Mat train to vote TKN, which I feel is a train dilution move that backfired and he realised that wasn't likely to create a CW. Only a few players make a vote move past this point: Devo (IMO, not willing to doubt Devo at this stage), Archer, Ash (onto DeTess), and Aloha (onto DeTess.) I've argued Alpha's move is probably the more dubious of the two because Ash could've gone Mat over DeTess but didn't. Alpha officially ties it by going on DeTess and it's worth noting that as DeTess wasn't going to be on, it was less likely to attract brawling than Mat as a CW ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm also the one who disagrees with Mat enough to believe that an inexperienced Elim like Alpha might very well think in terms of buying Village favour rather than in concrete terms of "what am I going to do after that." I don't fully believe Aman's posts point to E!Alpha, this is true, but I also think trying to read E!Aman is an exercise in dicing with disaster anyway so if push came to shove, I'd probably go E!Alpha over E!Ash. The thing with E!Alpha though is that IMO - well, you know. Again, I repeat: if you know you are Village, then Alv didn't make a kill. If Alv didn't make a kill, and it's not you, the only other world is that we're mistaken about Mat. If not, then the kill must have come from within the pool of four: <Illwei, JNV, Ash, Fae.> I really don't want to underscore the mech point less because I think the fact that we have good mech reason to believe it's one of those four is really important. Better for you than for basically anyone else, since everyone else has to note the E!TJ/E!Alv and E!Mat escape hatches. I don't feel like shooting outside the mech pool until we find the Elim that has to be in there because most mech-external shots either feel like a shot in the frickin' dark or require me to revise one or two layers of read-assumptions, and I'd rather not get completely excavatory until at least one more Elim is dead. Edited to add: @|TJ| Here's your counterpoint. Suppose the other two Elims were essentially low activity or barely present? The issue with hypothesising Fae IMO is we have to suggest E!Fae believed the situation was so under control that she could afford to self-vote rather than pad a vote on an alternative train to give Archer more breathing room. Edited to add 2: I guess what I'm trying to say is that it feels either way you are committed to explaining away some inadequacy. Either that complacent self-vote from Fae (lack of a saving vote cast!), or which of <Ash/Alpha> cast a saving vote (if at all) or why no wolf theatre despite a post that - ex hypothesi - would fundamentally have to be wolf theatre and so on. I don't think there's a smoking gun in this case but that's the point. Whatever the lynch finds will inevitably prove that there's some piece of evidence that's being misread. This isn't to say all incongruencies are the same, but it's that I think at the core of it, we are fundamentally committed to explaining away some seemingly-irrational things, and each time I try to explain Elim behaviour, I'm always stuck there.

This. Also, for me, the other good point for Ash is the half-hearted highlight of Aman's potential E!slip when he was about to get lynched. IMO if it's wolf theatre, then E!Ash would be wanting to milk more from it and get those distancing points. Instead it's a half-hearted comment without much impact from Aman or Ash and the lynch goes on. Ash also later declines more Village credit for it: There's tonal + fatalistic weirdness in the later posts but it's enough for me to file this for now in 'Disagreements about how to Village' rather than wanting to go for an Ash train today.

Opposite reasons?

Because my wincon is for killing Elims? I don't get what's so hard about this. You're giving me just enough QF63 Ash vibes I'd rather go for basically anyone else in PoE I have zero reason to think is Village. It doesn't mean I can't be mistaken but it sure means I'm not interested in maximising bad decisions before going for lynches I am more convinced might actually fulfil my wincon. Edited to add:

It's little posts like this that don't make sense to me as much as I feel Fae is the more promising exe today. Until the Elims have the frick what. If a team that lost both Aman and Archer can have thread control with zero Village deaths apart from Sart, I don't know what the frick you are remotely fricking hypothesising as a team or a gamestate. If that team can get thread control without us remotely screwing the Pooh to a state the Pooh was not meant to be screwed, I don't know what to say. There's a significant chunk in there that just reads like scaremongering. And? For me it's just that I feel...less strongly than Mat, I could see...Suppose the Elim team lost most thread confidence with Archer and Aman. I could see Alpha placating with a Mask to buy time and not realising it deepens the hole. But that's still besides the point because I think the real problem is that someone killed last Night and it can't be Alpha. We could theoretically argue it's Mat but I still don't really feel the voting is quite right for that. There's a side world where it's Alv and TJ but they absolutely have to be a package deal and I don't have to read Alv if I can just read TJ. Again back to Illwei, JNV, Ash, Fae. I have weak positive reasons to V read pretty much everyone except Fae. With Fae, it's derpclear reasons which not everyone is on board with, to the point I also DK what I feel when I reread her posts. But really it's also this cycle. The point isn't about being a Thief which is a perfectly believable claim. The point is about being Village and Fae keeps conveniently eliding the two.

Thoughts from a D1 re-read: I have a really bad headache so I'll do more later. I'm either paranoiding real hard on TJ or I'm confused about how many of his narratives are gaining traction especially when I don't consider them to be necessarily good takes. I think DeTess looks good from Archer CWing on DeTess Think that if we ignore Alv's claim about the timing (easily a lie), there's an Alpha-Alv world where they tried to CW on Steel using Alv's VitC. The only thing is that this team has to be a TJ-Alv-Alpha team due to actions economy, with TJ either using the Spellbook or lying about it. IDK how I feel about Fae anymore. Elasticity point could be Archer-Mat distancing but doesn't really capture that the valence is wrong: Mat is more willing to vote Archer than Archer is Mat when you'd expect it to go the other way around because Silver Bones. Aman seems to suggest: V!TJ, Ash as person of interest, V!Alpha. DO NOT TRUST. I struggle however with E!Ash voting for DeTess when easier to save Archer by voting Mat. Alpha casting actual saving vote on Archer. ...I need stronger painkillers RIP.

I think my problems are as follows: -Not really against a Fae shrek but don't see her working on any four-member team that doesn't have Mat (which is itself a can of worms.) Agreed about some of the performativeness, and there's a fair point that Mat raised about a potential Thief claim. -If V!Araris, don't substantively disagree with Araris's point on Alpha's suspicions which might be the deciding factor for me here. But as the Lakedaimonians would say: if. -I think there's a fair question about Ash's votes and currently between <Ash/Alpha>, I'd probably lean Ash. But I also feel that Ash's extensive paranoia feels very consistent with V!Ash, if anything. But this needs me to re-read QF63 as I survived a N2 kill there too only to get paranoided on by him and also he paranoia vigshot the Village read I flashwagoned TKN to save RIP TKN RIP Archer -For me, JNV's more just there than anything. Which is a long way of me saying I might be willing to go JNV yes, as bad as I feel about it. I also think they're more disengaged than usual though IDK if that counts for anything particularly. Edited to add: Since Illwei is in the pool - good opening + I kinda don't think E!Illwei wants to burn this much energy litigating the Pallid Mask issue even after Archer is dead and it helps no one.

Reasonable. I think I'll spell out now why I was willing to cut JNV some slack earlier, which I couldn't really have done even when Mat was asking me N2 without giving the game away: Long story short, JNV was willing to back me up in the Elder Sign Pendant lie meant to buy Devo some time. JNV never claimed that at any point (hence my curiosity when you claimed JNV had a defensive item.) I felt that the Elims (whether via the Writer who made me my D1 PM with them or JNV) might've been more willing to risk a strike on Devo had they been aware of the play. Edited to add: @DeTess: Heads-up that you were asking about this...last Day. I ran a theory past Elan this morning but forgot to mention. Long story short, one potential reason not to have Archer put in the kill might be that a Shade Expert's protect can't do double duty. That is, if the protection has dissolved trying to defend you from a player attacking you, then it can't also protect you from Wrath of the Shades being triggered by you making a kill because the protection is already gone.

S'okay it happened and it's not the worst that they'll steer clear from her A 'next time this happens in play for you' kind of deal I think! Edited to add: Alpha has been confirmed as passing a Mask. Cannot have put in a kill either.

No, I believe I did specifically claim it last Night at TJ's request but hey, if I was gonna suffer trying to work out where to protect to intercept the kill, might as well make the Elims suffer trying to work out what I'm gonna do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited to add: Oh and the direct counterpoint to 'No one ever thinks about E!Kas' -> MR62.