Pathfinder

Not from how it is presented in the book. Every metal has a complimentary alloy that coincides with the ability it grants. Pewter enhances the body, tin enhances senses, steel pushes, iron pulls, brass dampens emotions, zinc inflames emotions, bronze finds allomantic pulses, copper hides allomantic pulses. So if gold shows you a holographic version of what you could have been in the past, then what possible ability could its alloy grant that would be in line with that, and be capable of defeating the lord ruler?

I am sorry but I take issue with the way you state this, and it is rather dismissive. The way this sounds to me is "well what I say is based on fact, and I used logic, while yours is flawed but although we can disagree on the logic, my facts are still facts". By your own statement you gave only one example of when Sazed lied, and when I responded, you jumped to preservation, when i responded to that you jumped to Ruin and when I responded to that, you jumped back to the original arguement. You have no concrete facts that Sazed lied about Lessie, just your own opinion. I cannot definitively prove Harmony was telling the truth and you cannot definitively prove he lied. We can disagree in our opinions, but (at least how I read it) don't imply to me that I am disregarding facts when this is just your interpretation. You are choosing to ignore the testimony of TenSoon, who we have no reason to disbelieve, and are assuming he thinks Lessie was never controlled simply because Harmony told him so. I am hoping I am misreading your statement because to be honest I got a bit offended. I think it would be best at this point for me to step back from this conversation and leave it as we agree to disagree.

We have WoB that say the shards themselves are neither good nor evil, they just hold an intent. I do not believe those in the letter were lying, I was just illustrating a point. Prove to me they were telling the truth. You can't. Just like i cannot definitively prove Harmony was telling the truth. However we certainly know a lot more about Harmony, TenSoon, Bleeder, Leras, and Ati than we do about the writer of the letter. So by that logic, grasping at straws would be assuming the writer of the letter is telling the truth while assuming Sazed is lying. But as you said, this really comes down to each others opinions, so please do not take this as me saying you are definitively wrong or right. Just responding to the points you presented.

I dunno. If it was donating an organ after I am dead that is one thing, but if I knew hemalurgy ripped away a part of my soul, I would be more hesitant given we do not know how that would affect a person going into the afterlife lol. But understand even though I am agnostic and love technology, for instance with teleportation, I still operate under the premise of "can it be proven that the person that is compiled on the other side is really me me, and not a copy me, while the me me is no more? Because I am the me me, and I wanna kinda stay the me me, so I think I will walk" lol.

That is from the writer of the letter's perspective. How do we know that individual is not lying or was deceived by Ati before he picked up the shard? And I did not saying he was not kind nor generous. You can be kind, generous and prideful. Ati could have though his hubris thought he could hold back Ruin's influence of entropy. To expand on it, lets say he is very good at being kind and generous. Like Breeze. He is very generous with his Soothing, helping people get through hard times. If he was not hiding the kind of person he was others would think him as such. We know he is a kind and generous person who is also cocky and full of himself as well as manipulative. That does not mean Ruin is manipulative, just that when held by someone like Breeze, he would be cocky, full of himself, and manipulative to accomplish decaying something.

As has been pointed out in other threads, Ruin is not necessarily bad. It is entropy. Yes the shards affect what your priority is, but I feel like you are giving them too much "personality". How much of Ruin was Ruin, and how much was it Ati manifesting his own overconfidence in trying to accomplish ruin? Time and again when we see Ati, we see him being cocky, and acting all knowing. Based on that I would feel maybe part of why he took Ruin, was because he was overconfident in his ability to resist the shards influence. Harmony referenced Wax as of Ruin because he ends life. It is also why he explains why he does not interfere as much as Wax would like in preventing death. Which this leads us to the same issue I have with Lessie/Bleeder. She is upset because she feels manipulated by Harmony. When it is shown he had minimal interference, she says well he could have stopped the bad things from happening. So he is a bad god for doing too much, but he is a bad god for doing too little. So which is it? Can't have both. Finally he is called Harmony because he is balancing the two intents. I do not view preservation as an angel on one shoulder, and ruin a devil on the other shoulder of Sazed. I view it more as, hey this is an action I want to take and preservation and ruin poke me showing that during that goal, some things need to continue, and some things need to end. Such is the universe. But I do not feel it is Ruin whispering "hey, lets screw with Wax's mind, so it degrades like all things should. Lets ruin his brain, and get him to destroy the Set. Lie to him. Yes Ruin it allllll".

Lol no worries. Ok let us go on that premise on quality over quantity. In both Sazed's as well as Preservation's cases, their lie involved sacrificing themselves. In Sazed's case where the sacrifice would have extended beyond himself, he openly explained the situation to everyone involved who would be sacrificed thus giving them the option to flee. They all chose to stay. The lie you are proposing is Sazed/Preservation sacrificing someone else, which is not in theme with their previous lies. If that was so, Harmony would have asked Lessie to sacrifice herself, and only have done so if she voluntarily chose to.

I only see you give only one instance where Sazed lied. Preservation does not count as he was controlled by Leras, who was a different individual. Sazed's one lie was to preserve his friends lives which I think is a stretch to then say if he lied then, he will always lie when he needs to accomplish something. All other times we have seen Sazed, he has been honestly and forth right. Again judge the character by their actions. Bleeder/Lessie was unhinged, and murdering innocent people. Sazed could have made a monotheistic religion like the Lord Ruler. He could have altered the entire history to suit him. Instead he allowed people to worship as they wished, and did his best to not intervene. I think it is far more plausible to take Harmony at his word than Bleeder. But in the end since we cannot conclusively prove one way or the other, I respect your opinion and will not push further. I now know how you feel having read Bands of Mourning, so my curiosity is sated lol.

So this was my line of reasoning in another thread on this board, so I'll copy paste because it covers how I feel about the matter. Then I will add some replies. The entire conversation was Harmony saying that he tries not to interfere, which is shown in the fact that he did not stop Lessie and Wax from falling in love with each other. Lessie was originally supposed to watch over Wax and make sure he doesn't die. Harmony never ordered her to seduce him. In fact when they fall in love Harmony suggests against it, but again does not force them. Finally Harmony wants Wax to go back to Elendel but again, does not force. There is WoB that Bloody Tan was not controlled by Harmony. So Lessie's death was not arranged by Harmony. Finally the only time he considered controlling Lessie was when she became a homicidal maniac. If anything it is Harmony's non-interference that Wax has an issue with, to which Harmony replies asking Wax how much is he to interfere? Where is the line? Down that path leads to ultimate control and loss of free will. A point which Wax eventually relents to. Finally Harmony points out that had Wax known it was Lessie, he would not have been able to pull the trigger, the very action that after this conversation, Wax admits had to be done. It is then Harmony attempts to heal Wax's sense of self guilt and pain over blaming himself for Lessie's death. For when Wax had blamed Harmony, he was in fact blaming himself for not being able to figure out some other way to save her. For her not to die. So at least in my opinion, Harmony has nothing to apologize for. So now to expand on this. I feel if Harmony was willing to control Lessie for her to get shot and lie about it after, then two things by extension, first why ever stop controlling her? He could have controlled her to tell Wax to go back, and then removed her from the picture. Then he would have had a fully functioning tool, with no PTSD regarding shooting people. The whole Bloody Tan situation would have never happened then. Second, if he has no compunctions about controlling someone and then lying about it, why not take the same steps Ruin did and get Wax spiked (a la Spook style) to be able to control him directly? Why all the hoops that still result in Wax resisting? Sazed can see the future, and said this was the best of possible outcomes. If Sazed was that duplicitious I do not think it would be a stretch for him to accomplish his goals with a greater hands on approach and get an even better outcome from his perspective. So that is why I do not feel Harmony is as manipulative as some have suggested. He is just a person with a lot of power trying to do the best he can with the tools he has. edit: thought of something to add. Let us take a look at the characters we are basing our information on. We have Bleeder, who is missing one of her original spikes that we have on good authority from multiple characters that (not just Harmony's), that the absence of alters and unhinges the mind. Now let us look at Sazed, a character we know through the original trilogy, and we meet again in the new series. Which seems more likely to have a trustworthy testimony. An unhinged psychotic that has murdered as it suits her with anarchy as her end goal? Or that a character we have viewed as stalwart, loving, and working for the good of the many, to the point that he has let other religions exist despite easily being able to rewrite history as it suits him, has been changed so dramatically by the intents of both shards that he would lie about his actions just to accomplish his own goals? edit 2: finally what evidence would convince you that Harmony did not lie? Because as I think about it, nothing could theoretically conclusively prove it unless Sanderson wrote a new scene directly from Lessie's perspective during that moment

except a horse would still need to die.......lol

Tia in the Reckoners series.

I think part of the reason they do not examine them, is that is the one thing parshmen get upset about. I think their logic is they have docile slaves that do whatever they want, and never complain, might as well let them handle their dead and not rock the boat.

Very true, though in my opinion considering we are told it is a weapon for hunting, and every time we see it used, it kills the target (little animals), and makes Shallan feel that if she gets hit, she will die, I am leaning towards lethal. But yes, that does not necessarily mean it is lethal, just where I would bet my clear chips.

This is the second character we have seen that has a soda addiction. I wonder if Brandon might have a problem......lol

yeah the whole vs thing is difficult because we haven't seen all the orders yet, what their abilities, and we have yet to see a full radiant in all its glory to really compare. But I believe people are talking about a fullborn (mistborn and feruchemist) being much stronger vs a radiant.

Killing people who disagree with you sounds dishonorable to me. if that was his motivation, then one, i do not see why he would allow himself to be shattered so early from the end game of shattering all the other shards to unite them as adonalsium. Second, if a shattered shard if left alone long enough, it could gain sentience. So shattering them by itself wouldn't be enough otherwise you would still have an entity to contend with. So shattering them with the goal of joining them, would require some sort of mechanism to keep them shattered, which I have not seen any hint or mention of. Finally if Odium convinced Honor this was a good idea, and then back stabbed him by shattering him too, then again that is far too early to pull the back stab. it would make more sense to wait till 90 percent or more of the shards are taken care of. Otherwise he is just hamstringing himself. Not saying the theory is wrong, just that it doesn't fit right for myself.

I know this question is pointed at Featherwriter but I like what in a way it is saying, so i would like to take a stab at answering it too. I feel yes and no. If we were to look at it in world with the same information that the characters had, then Kelsier should have gone into the great beyond and left well enough alone. On one hand we know Kelsier is the type that will go against overwhelming odds and win out some how in the end. However, with the information provided in the book, even if he was focused on saving everyone on the planet, he basically had a giant slap across the face that everything he did while alive to "help" the skaa, only made things worse by releasing ruin and effectively causing a near genocide. Now it could be said that wasn't his fault, because how could he have known? It was his ignorance of the bigger picture that led that to happen. And that is exactly my point, in world, even in the cognitive realm, Kelsier is grossly ignorant. Literally he has no idea if or even how any of his actions will help. Everyone tells him not go off to chase the IRE, yet he does it, simply (in my opinion) because everyone tells him not to. So I guess basically what I am saying is, if I was standing next to Kelsier when he finds out the world is ending because of Ruin and it was because he wanted to save everyone, I would yell at him to get out of here and not screw up even more! Now being a reader outside the chain of events, and knowing he ultimately does help a whole bunch, and he may very well been a big part of preservation's plan from waaaaaaaay back when, then I would say no, do not go to the great beyond, help people in that inexplicably tricky way and keep this cosmere trucking lol.

My assumption is that if those two races are part Aimian, could their existence or some action they took come into play as to why Aimians were hunt to nearly extinction. Not sure about purelake but regarding the shattering, I believe it is because the Natan people used to live where the shattered plains are, and moved after it shattered to near it to the east of it I believe. So there is not necessarily a causal relationship, but the poster feels there might be. At least that was my take away from it. I could be utterly and completely wrong lol.

Thing people tend to forget is it is not gold compounding, it is the equivalent of plain ole feruchemical gold tapping. Yes it is external, but it is still from a finite source, you cannot get the compounding loop with stormlight. What makes stormlight healing actually worse in my opinion than feruchemical gold tapping, is that gold depletes from its own source. So even if you run out of gold, you can still use any of your other abiltiies if you are a full feruchemist. Stormlight on the other hand, fuels all of the abilities. If you drain your stormlight to heal grevious injuries, then that is less stormlight you have to windrun, or soulcast. If you use your stormlight to windrun or soulcast, that is less stormlight to use to heal.

Theoretically yes. Just takes some jury rigging that is rather difficult.

enjoy!

I respect your opinion, and based on your theory that is based on that premise, it is well reasoned and will not push otherwise. I cannot definitively prove that Harmony did not lie based on the information we have. All I can say is that it was stated by a character in world that he did not. Let me know when you have read Bands of Mourning, and I will be happy to continue this discussion in that spoiler board. To be clear, nothing I have said in my arguments is a spoiler for anything in that book nor have I drawn anything from that book into this thread to argue in favor of Harmony. Finally my mention of Bands of Mourning should not be taken as confirmation one way or the other regarding Harmony. Please take this post as completely separate from all things Bands of Mourning. I merely stated that I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter after having read the subsequent book. Hopefully that explanation covered all bases lol whew

The faulty part with this logic is that you say the simplest answer is to say Harmony made her get herself killed. TenSoon says Harmony never controlled her. Following the simplest answer line of reasoning, for us to have to figure out that either TenSoon is lying, or that Harmony is lying over complicates things. The simplest answer would be to believe TenSoon who up until that point never lied to Wax, and gave him no reason to distrust him. For that matter, if Harmony has no problem controlling people and then lying about it when it suits him, then why not spike Wax like Spook got spiked by Ruin, and control him?

I would say at least in this particular situation, there are not that many possible futures for Tan to pick from. When fighting on a battlefield, with koloss running around, and an Inquisitor with multiple powers facing you, there are going to be a lot of possibilities, but standing still, with a person pointing a gun at you, I think the number of possibilities are much more reduced. But that is just my opinion, nothing in the books to base that on.

Vin does explain that in the last mistborn book. I will pull up the quote, and edit the post to reflect it. Hero of Ages page 28 Kindle Edition "Vin burned electrum. This created a cloud of images around her, shadows of possible things she could do in the future. Electrum, the Allomantic complement of gold. Elend had started calling it "poor man's atium." It wouldn't affect the battle much, other than to make her immune to atium, should the Inquisitor have any. Hero of Ages page 42 Kindle Edition "Electrum didn't grant the same invincibility as atium which allowed an Allomancer to see slighty into the future, but it did make one immune to atium" So basically electrum lets only you see your own possible futures, but doesn't necessarily give you that extreme sixth sense atium does. So it is not useless, and though not as powerful as atium it does counter it and does help.