Pathfinder

Well it is stated in the book that the armor has to be put on feet first otherwise the bearer would have trouble even standing in the breastplate due to its weight without the armored legs to assist, so it is probably like shardblades where they are lighter than we would expect, but still decently heavy. I will do a search on shadeplate and see what I come up with regarding quotes So far have found one quote mentioning strength of men, though it says many, not a definable number, see below: Page 187 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "With a heave, he pulled himself up, the Plate lending him the strength of many men." Will add more as I come across them Looks like the shardplate feeling light is on the part of the wearer. Reference below: page 205 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "A man in Shardplate was heavy and put a great strain on both his mount and saddle." some further clarity: page 372 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "One always put the armor on from the feet upward. Shardplate was extremely heavy; without the enhanced strength it provided, no man would be able to fight in it." maybe some can be extrapolated from the description of the warhammer he wields (though it is dalinar who you asked to exclude so take this with a grain of salt then) page 414 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "He didn't have to wait long for the hammer; it came pulled by two men on a small cart. Sweating, the soldiers heaved it from the cart, the half as thick as a man's wrist and the front of the head larger than an outspread palm. Two men together could barely lift it. Dalinar grabbed the hammer with one gauntleted hand, swinging it up to rest on his shoulder." Perhaps those who are better with math than I and historical materials could figure out how heavy that hammer could conceivably be based on those dimensions? Unfortunately it looks like a lot of what we have so far in the vein of what a shardplate can do, seems to be from Dalinar. Here is another: page 414 Kindle Edition Way of Kings "He hefted and swung again, this time breaking free a large section of rock. Though it would have been difficult for two or three regular men to lift, Dalinar grabbed it with one hand and tossed it aside"

I hope we lose some focus on Kaladin for the simple reason that I am kinda getting tired of seeing so many characters having flying powers across his books. I want to see him delve more into Lift's, Shallan's, Renarin's, and Dalinar's powers. We have had Vin, Kelsier, Wax, David (when he used the spyril), all be focused on and all have flying abilities. I get Brandon wishes he could fly, but I really want to see people get around some other way for a bit lol.

Yeah, had this discussion in a derailment in another thread and I am in agreement he is getting to places due to help with a fabrial. Personally I think it is a transportation fabrial, but Moogle did make a good point regarding combining a illumination fabrial with his lashings. Problem is there is a whole bag of tricks that Nale could have that we have no clue if he does or does not possess. So this is all conjecture at this point.

Granted, you are a shard of glass I wish to always have exactly the amount of money I need in any situation without it being taken from anyone else

Your rehash of the quotes I have already explained my view I will disregard, as you have disregarded my explanation of them. I am not going to go figuratively hoarse just repeating the same info. Now to reply finally to quotes that you have provided (btw which I have been asking for this entire time) The Skaze and the Seons do not come into play into this as you do not need to bond one in order to access said power. You could bond them let a nahel bond and gain an ability, but it is cleary stated that the monks, the elantians, forgery and chaysan are not due to such bonds. This also replies to the next quote you made so I shall move to the following one The Skaze have a large amount of influence on most politics and most working in Fjordell.
 That doesn't say the magic, doesn't say the monks, it says the politics and most workings. So sure the hierarchy of Fjordell is due to the Skaze, woohoo, that still has nothing to do with the magic. Again, Wyrm thinks a system that results in a dictatorship that he can rule without question is downright keen. Congrats, again that has to do with the hierarchy that is built on a religion that is dominion. it still does not predicate that having your bones warped and powers is of more dominion than devotion. Because if we say that, then the magic becomes more based on interpretation than actual. Because I can then say that the monk has to be super devoted so his country to sacrifice himself to see his people succeed. That is nationalism. Check the definition. It literally says "devotion and loyalty to one's own country; patriotism." here's the link http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nationalism I can then say that hey taking a power that pervades all things, and forcing it into a rigid symbol, that I can then control via mathmatical modifiers is very dominiony. Storms it is downright science, which the definition clearly states that too "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment." link shown below: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=science+definition I will be happy to research and reference elantians that were very dominiony as mentioned by Galladon, if that would actually matter. But I will be told "well that isn't clear enough. we didn't see the elantians say it themselves" or "that isn't valid, they could just be having an off day" or "that doesn't work, that was galladon's interpretation". I do not just snap my fingers, and these quotes appear. I have to do searches in the book, and online. it is work. I feel I have every right to ask the same amount of work of those who wish to counter what I state. When you assert something to me, have something to back it up other than because you said so. So just like the other thread, I will only reply to those who provide quotes or WoB. If I am proven wrong by those, I will happily thank you as I have learned something new and my understanding has grown. But I do not have to take what you state as fact when you do not provide information to meet me.

Please provide quotes from the book that show Wax's muscles and or bones become weaker/brittle when he stores his weight, which he does when walking around 90 percent of the time. What I was stating was that Wax's boon for being able to store/tap weight is that his bones can handle his increased weight. He does not need to store it, it is just a boon that lets him deal with it. With steel the runner still suffers from friction but can run without needing to tap mental speed. I state that that is a steel runners boon. The capacity to run at those speeds but to have the reflexes to use that speed despite the reflexes not having a source as it is with Wax. We have never seen anywhere it shown that when storing only physical speed that the perception of the storer slow down, and just because some may think it is implied does not make it fact. If anyone can provide me with quotes that can show otherwise instead of stating "well it didn't explicitly say it doesn't happen so it must happen" then I will be happy to concede but till then this is all a strawman. I am the one making the effort to research the topic and provide information, that is just being told it "isn't good enough". Well if it isn't good enough, then give me some actual references to respond to. Otherwise this isn't discourse, this isn't a debate, its two people shutting their ears and yelling at each other "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA". I will only respond from here on out when anyone has made the actual effort to provide quotes or WoB that show this.

I have explained myself ad nauseum, I have referenced WoB that support what I state. You feel they do not apply and have made it very clear that no matter how I try to explain it, they are not good enough for you. If you have these copious quotes you claim, then do your due diligence and provide them. If this is to be a debate, then it should not be on me to do all the research just so you can try to poke holes. Put your money where your mouth is and provide quotes of your own. Till then as I said we are an an impasse, and continuing to repeat the same information over and over is pointless for me. I made my case, and I feel I made it well. You don't like it, then fine. I respect your opinion and am not going to beat a dead horse.

Then please provide proof that the added perception when steel running is different than the added bone and organ strength to survive tapping weight.

That is your opinion. We have still reached an impasse as I disagree. You cannot provide quotes at all that prove what you are stating, and you feel the quotes I provide do not prove what I am stating. So nothing further can be gained from you and I discussing this.

So you just said they don't become more durable but they do? When he taps his bones become more durable to withstand his increased weight. Same thing with his organs so his skeleton does not snap nor his organs hemorrhage yet does not apply to any other external force. So tell me, where is that coming from? you stated yourself by laws of feruchemy, that cannot come from no where. So how does he store that capability? Despite having quotes from Brandon that feruchemical abilities have certain intrinsic properties that help the user use the ability. Despite the perception used to aid the steel runner in running so they don't smack face first into something. it must come from somewhere. So if a steel runner must store the perception, even though that is already covered in mental speed, then how does Wax's bones become denser purely for allowing him to tap weight? Where does that come from?

Exactly. The same stands with my quotes. The ones I provide you do not feel are concrete proof either so we have reached an impasse.

When Wax stores weight do his bones become brittle?

I want a quote that shows by only storing physical speed that you slow down perception as well. Every quote I have provided only described physical speed being slowed down when physical speed is stored. So please provide me with a quote where only physical speed is being stored but also describes a slowing of perception. Let me know when you find it. I will wait.

I want a quote that states that the dakhor monk's magic is more dominion than devotion. I want a quote that states that that all elantians are more devotion than dominion. I want a quote that states how much forging is dominion vs devotion. I want a quote stating the same about bloodsealing and chaysan. Let me know when you find them. I will wait.

Then prove it. Show me other quotes that support what you are saying

Just like the other thread we are going back and forth on. I provide quotes from the books and WoB that support what I state. You ignore them and state that what you believe is right. So please put your money where your mouth is and provide the pertinent quotes and accurate WoB that support your assertion. Otherwise all you are doing is saying i am wrong because you say so. I am the one doing all the work to research this and provide information, and you are choosing to ignore it.

Because that is how the society was shaped by the skaze who have nothing to do with the power itself as per the quotes I provided, which you are choosing to ignore. So please provide to me quotes that clearly support what you are ascertaining since the ones I have provided do not seem valid to you.

Then please explain to me why, Brandon said the same quote I posted earlier: WINDRUNNER Is the Dor made up of both Devotion and Dominion's power? BRANDON SANDERSON The Dor's nature, and why it acts as it does, is in part related to this question. edit: how about this, how about you provide me some quotes that support what you are saying?

another quote: Well of Ascension page 224 Five months of storing, of spending every fifth day drained of speed, my body moving as if impeded by a thick molasses. And now it's all gone. Does not say "and mind slow". Only body. It is faulty reasoning to say just because it isn't explicitly stated that it does not cause a slowing of perception, that it must cause a slowing of perception. edit: btw, as a side benefit of this, it confirms that you can sit still and store speed. In one of these quotes, Saze is locked up where the kandra are and just sits there, touching the lock as he stores speed. So he isn't moving yet can still store.

I have showed the quote that shows dakhor is Dor, there is another quote that says forging is Dor, do I need to get a quote from brandon that states each one is Dor for you to be satisfied?

It does too specify, right here: he instantly began to feel lethargic, as if his every motion even his breathing was more difficult. It was like he had to push through some thick substance each time he moved How more specific does it need to be? What does it have to say to convince you?

But in the Dor's case it is both

In the scenes I am going to quote below, Sazed is storing only mental speed in one, and only physical speed in the other. Please note the descriptions mental speed only (he is storing other metals but it is clearly specified not physical speed) page 676 Well of Ascension "They're finally gone." Sazed paused for a moment, trying to decipher the comment. His thoughts moved as if through a thick, turgid soup, and it took him a moment to understand what Clubs had said.......That made him feel even more guilty to be sitting in the kitchen nook, beside a warm hearth, sipping broth as his metalminds sapped his strength, health, senses, and power of thought. He rarely tried to fill so many at once. physical speed only (only had steel to use, so could not have stored mental speed) page 628 Hero of Ages He reached up with the other hand, touching the steel lock with one finger. Then, he began to fill it as well, draining his body of speed. he instantly began to feel lethargic, as if his every motion even his breathing was more difficult. It was like he had to push through some thick substance each time he moved. So the descriptions show it clearly that physical speed is only physical and mental speed is only mental.

Without hemalurgy, can a natural born Rosharian without a nahel bond, use stormlight to awaken? The answer is no. if the object is already awakened, the stormlight can be used as fuel to sustain it, but the object is still connected to Endowment. An Elantian can theoretically use stormlight to fuel their aons, but they are still an Elantian due to devotion and dominion. So the monks are still using powers of devotion and dominion. The dor is both the source and the fuel.