Frostlander

So, I have a feeling that one of the ways we’ll describe the front vs. the back five will be arcs for Honor and Cultivation. This series could be (on one very zoomed-out level) about the stories of two shards, their enemy, and their time in the Roshar system. I’m thinking this based on the Orders of the flashback characters for both halves, and the fact that we’ve learned a lot about Honor, but almost none of our main characters know much about Cultivation. Jasnah just thinks she’s a deity worshipped out in the west, and we'll presumably be learning a lot more about her, too. I think Honor’s arc will mostly run its course by the end of the 5th book. Some of our main characters will be dead or otherwise occupied, while others (Renarin, Jasnah, some of the Heralds, Lift) will playing bigger roles in the back 5. Several of these characters may have the potential to travel a bit more or see a bit more beyond just the planet Roshar, so any conflict with Odium’s champion will likely widen the scope. Plus, if he’s actually lured out or escapes, we may see some of the mythological planets that Rosharans talk about, Braize, the Tranquiline Halls. Because this isn’t Dragonsteel or Mistborn Sci-Fi, I’m hesitant to bring in too many shards or planets. I’m not sure that Brandon wants to have that much crossover, even in the back 5. I’m actually curious about the possibility that Odium might be “picked up” by one of our characters. It might be that Rayse is the big casualty. That would give us a change in antagonist, a bigger scope, and a potential cliffhanger. So, I think shard-wise, we’ll mostly be looking at Odium, Cultivation, and Honor’s legacy. Shardholders might be a different story. It’s also possible that, much like the conflict with the Parshfolk, we are totally misunderstanding all of this right now. Brandon has managed to believably lay the foundation for huge changes in our perception of events in just a little over two books. I think we’ll have a better idea of the general trajectory of the first five based on Oathbringer. What he’ll give us in Part 5 of the 5th book that will change the entire series, I have no idea.

This is the no-fun theory, but Rial is from Bridge 13, which is Dalinar's guard. They're mentioned as taking over for Bridge 4, who are off doing other things, and for the sake of the story, will probably be reunited with Kaladin later. Bridge 13 already got some development when they sagged with exhaustion after Stormfather finished the wedding. My guess is that if Kaladin gets to keep Bridge 4 as squires, Dalinar's bridgemen (whether they're squires or not) will start getting some character development.

And if we're looking at this as diminishing, rather than reversing or curing, I think it's important that this particular "treatment" has, so far, let Dalinar hear Evi's name and see her face. Years of memories did not come crashing down on him. I do think this theory is onto something.

As I've been thinking about the current "lie" that Pattern mentioned needed addressing, I started wondering about Shallan's gaps in memory. Pattern and Shallan had many conversations in WoR that were only half finished, leading us to wrong conclusions, or where Pattern had to let Shallan figure some things out for herself. Or conversations where he didn't understand something himself. I'm also curious why Shallan hasn't been contacted by the Ghostbloods yet, and I'm wondering if these things are part of a larger picture. We know she's been drawing places she doesn't remember going, and she has a bedroom that allows her to sneak out of the main area and sneak back in. Has she been meeting with the Ghostbloods, going on missions for them, and not remembering? Has she committed violent acts and not remembered? She wants to be Veil on more than just a surface level, but Veil is violent, she's someone who stabs people to make a point. So, I think the groundwork has been laid for Shallan to be running around as a Ghostblood operative but pretending she's not doing iffy things. I'm not sure what is causing these issues with memory, but the fact that Pattern is concerned and seems to find her "lies" wrong when he normally loves complex lies, makes me think that Shallan isn't just under the influence of a kooky Urithiru. Something is interfering with "normal" Lightweaver behavior. Crazy but unsubstantiated guess is that one of the Unmade who we haven't met has hijacked her specific abilities but has somehow not harmed her Nahel bond. Yet? Someone with more realmatic knowledge might be able to figure out how the mechanics would work... Most of this will probably be obliterated by next week's chapters, but it's still fun to try!

If it helps, last week on Tor.com, Alice (Wetlandernw) said that Part 1 was about 1/4 of the book's total length and that we were halfway through that. I calculated that at about 150 pages--again last week. At that point in WoR, Shallan had failed to soulcast a stick and just climbed into a slave wagon on the way to the Shattered Plains. We also had just gotten our first countdown for the Everstorm and learned that Amaram was on his way. We don't meet Eshonai until the Interlude after Part 1, and the Diagram shows up right before Part 5. So, a lot can still happen! Our main arcs still hadn't all been set in motion yet. ETA: It looks like Part 1 of OB is about 2x as long as Part 1 of WoR, so those events in WoR above were toward the end of the setup. Apparently, we have a lot more setup to come...

I don't remember confirmation, but he didn't finish off Ambition right away, so it's possible that she/he got some punches in. Not sure about Dominion and Devotion. I'm thinking of this WoB

I'm now thinking that the preface writer is Iri or Rira: We just got that whole convenient conversation about experience with the Queen of Iri. Not sure if it's Evi writing the book, but the nationality is seeming more likely. And the heretical piece could be the One.

Perhaps now that he's bonded with Stormfather, it's impossible for him to forget oaths he's made and the people he's made them to. This is a somewhat simpler theory, though it could also involve some of the Spiritual powers Bondsmiths seem to have. I hope for the story's sake, that Evi (and therefore Dalinar's past oath) isn't still alive...

And Syl can squeeze under doors...

I'm not sure what her role is, though being a "red shirt," love interest, future Radiant, secret society member or a combination of these somehow seem equally likely. Right now, she actually makes sense if we're introducing Aladar as a bigger character. Because Lighteyes work as husband-wife pairs, if Aladar is a widower, it might make sense for him to have a trusted female relative among the Spanreed Club. He's not mentioned as having a wife, so add in a daughter. Of course, Brandon could have given Aladar a wife. So May will be important, but her activities probably make sense in Alethi society and make Aladar more well rounded.

This quote from Kaladin's return to Hearthstone is interesting in terms of an Alethi revolution: In more rural areas, at least, Alethi seem to think that their king just needs to know what's going on so that he can help. (Humorously, Kaladin immediately starts thinking about communicating with Dalinar.) This may not necessarily reflect what urban Alethi think about Elhokar, but I don't think this was a casually dropped line. It seems more likely that Brandon wanted to remind us that at least some people saw Elhokar as king, and a potentially benevolent one, too.

I've thought for a while that the Ishar/Jezrien relationship was similar to societies (including medieval Europe) that had--in theory--"secular" and "spiritual" leaders. I imagine that this is where we may end up in the series, though it could take some time and get a bit awkward. In terms of leadership in Alethkar and Roshar, is it possible that we are overestimating the long-term viability of the continent's political hierarchies and judicial systems? Possibly even overestimating their viability as polities? It seems like there are some leaders who are trying to rebuild and are still in "pre-Everstorm" mentalities. How long can Azir cast its long, long shadow and produce affidavits? It will either be conquered or start conquering. In Urithiru, Dalinar has three Highprinces (if we count Adolin) and one "Highking," and I still don't think that Dalinar should be a secular leader. The rest of the Highprinces are running amok or possibly repositioning themselves. It may take a few hundred pages to see this decay start to unfold, but I think we can't assume that the same kingdoms and systems will still be in place. What direction it will take I'm not sure, but this is the True Desolation. We may be reading the "upbeat" part of the book... It's hard to imagine we'll see a fun KR training montage that gets everyone ready to fight successfully for the status quo--especially with 7 more books after this.

@maxal Any thought on whether Adolin's ability to listen to and to understand Renarin-speak is significant? I was thinking about Lift's talent for understanding and speaking street slang. Also, related, but not to OB, I know the pre-duel ceremony involved remembering his conspicuously-forgotten mother via her chain, but it also got me thinking about eating chicken. If his mother is Iri or Rira, those kingdoms' proximity to Shinovar might mean his mother favored chicken, giving the ceremony another remembrance aspect. (I'm not sure if there's anything to it, but I'm actually kind of serious about the chicken...)

Given this description of Parshmen/ endi, it sounds like there might be a combination of folks with forms with more normal rhythms and with void?rhythms. (I'm assuming that they are referring to former Parshmen as "Parshmen" still.): One guess, based on the treaties and the literacy, is that scholarform and mediationform are being used. It's also possible that some of the members of these groups have a void-version of those forms. (These would be the ones whose speech is different.)

Any chance the Queen of Thaylenah could become the "female" Bondsmith? I've been assuming there would be one after learning there were three and that an order's numbers were made up of "statistically appropriate" percentages of men and women. It seems like one should show up soon, and we haven't seen many female leaders. It's a bit out of left field, though May Aladar would be even more so! Any other female candidates?

Here's where that info may have come from:

This seems to be the most prominent Ashyn RAFO:

Navani was pretty excited when scholars (inspired by the ardent Rushu) found out that shardblade gems were added later as ornamentation. I know it very neatly foreshadowed things we later learned about blades, but Navani, Rushu, and maybe Shallan could eventually figure some stuff out about honorblades and fabrials.

Do we know how traumatic entering the physical realm is for nahel spren? They talk about the difficulty, and many of them seem to have fuzzy memories that improve as the bond progresses. What happens if the spren's transition is particularly bad? The other Truthwatchers don't seem particularly "off," and they can effectively use their powers. And Ym's spren seemed normal enough. Is it possible that something went wrong with Glys's transition, and that is causing the problems we're noticing?

Does anyone know why Laral refers (presumably) to Aesudan as the queen regent? As far as I know, this book doesn't have a queen regent. Aesudan is the queen, and she is overseeing things in Kholinar, but Elhokar is not dead. Navani is the widow of the late king and is the dowager queen. Is this a mistake? An in-world usage of regent? ETA: Navani was the dowager queen. She's married to a Highprince now...though most people still don't know.

Maybe jumping to conclusions, but did we ever decide what this epigraph from Mr. T's hospital meant? Makes me feel awkward about Kaladin's brother being named "Child of Peace."

Ha! I hadn't known which meaning of "keen" he'd meant. Now I'm imagining a bunch of wailing, grieving, funeral-song-singing spren. It would probably be hard to calm them down long enough to have a normal conversation with them! That could actually work with Dustbringers. I'm thinking of "releasing" from physical forms, burning funeral pyres, ashes to ashes-dust to dust. And I agree, I don't think he'd mention them as placing an order with Wyndle unless they were important and more than just a force of nature. Dustbringers is just my random, early morning guess.

This is where I start to get in over my head on the Cosmere Theory board... Are you saying that Adonalsium (or some other force) made Roshar bond-tastic before the Shattering? What would that be? Adonalsium's planetary laboratories for testing foci? (I'm not being sarcastic--just intrigued.)

Perhaps the foci are somehow present to varying degrees throughout the cosmere due to Adonalsium's influence before his death. Metal may be significant throughout the cosmere because it possibly was significant before the shattering. I almost wonder if it is especially important on Scadrial because that is a planet where shards created humans, perhaps drawing even more heavily on the idea that metal is important. I am a proponent of the bond-as-focus theory for Roshar, too, and have argued that Honor represents a distilled version of divine covenant-forming. That doesn't mean that previously existing bonds, possibly related to pre-shattering covenant-forming can't exist. It might just mean that the importance of that divine aspect becomes crazy important on the planet that Honor invested in. ETA: I am not restricting bond formation on other planets to the pre-shattering era. They can still be formed because the conditions for formation already existed.

So, this is a very, very speculative theory based on the quotes below, including the text of the Oathbringer Prologue. I'd be pleasantly surprised if 20% of it is remotely accurate, but it's fun to think about. Someone, perhaps a (genuine) prophetic ardent living during the last days of the Hierocracy, had a particularly significant experience glimpsing the future in the Spiritual Realm through the Cognitive Realm. They returned fully to the Physical Realm with the knowledge that a history or chronicle had to be written. Given all this talk about the Sunmaker and the parallels with Dalinar uniting Roshar, I suspect that we’ll learn that some of the visions Sunmaker “investigated” and found to be false were actually true. The book is a chronicle detailing Honor’s time on Roshar and his death or future death. As it is likely that Honor is responsible for instituting Roshar’s system of bonds after the shattering of Adonalsium, Honor is Oathbringer. The author believed that publishing the information was necessary, perhaps for a future when people lacked information but would need to better understand Roshar and Honor in order to save it. Some people would feel threatened by the implications of what Honor is/was or what Honor’s death meant for Roshar. Most people would see the book as heretical or even of the Voidbringers, rejecting it as evil, particularly if it involved visions of the future. (I’m not sure who would feel liberated…maybe those opposing the Sunmaker?) Perhaps the author had seen things about Honor already and shared those things, earning the label heretic. At some point, our characters will discover in-world Oathbringer. The book will give us and them more information about how Roshar functions, about Honor, and about the importance of oaths and bonds within that system. It may also tell us more about Odium at a time when people have almost no idea how do fight a shard (or its champion).