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Shardcast: Odium v Passion


Chaos
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Some things are just inherent rivalries. Batman v Superman. Captain America v Iron Man. And now, we're picking up right from last week, and we are talking about super Oathbringer spoilers. It's Shardcast: Civil War, Odium v Passion. We're discussing what this force is, and we're coming to blows! One that won't simply be solved by saying that both their moms are named Martha.

See below in the YouTube comments and upvote which team you are on, of course, after you listen to our wonderful analysis. Especially Eric's. That guy will totally be proven correct...

This week we have Eric (Chaos), Ian (WeiryWriter), Evgeni (Argent), and Grace (thegatorgirl). And they all really like making fun of me.

Here's the previous episode: http://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-odium-r403/?do=getLastComment

Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected]. You can also subscribe to Shardcast on iTunes, Google Play, and you can always subscribe with this feed: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:102123174/sounds.rss

 

Edited by Chaos

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 firstly I'm definitely a #teampassion member but a bit of a heretic to mainstream team values  

[disclaimer before the rant: I use shard names for convenience but totally agree that single word name or any word at all can encapsulate a divine attribute ]

 I think that  the shard is the shard of passion. and passion is all emotions. not just "negative" emotions like lust and the joy of triumph. however since the vessel is a hate-filled  person he perceives all emotions thru a lens of hate and this is just magnified to an exponential degree by the shard. when the shard was originally picked up by rayse it was a "neutral" mix of emotion. but when rayse's personality and perception of reality started to merge with the shard he started to perceive more and more the emotion hatred as the foundation to all other emotion. that in effect changed how the shard manifested itself leading in to a never ending cycle of hate until he was no longer passion but rather odium.  becoming selfish and cruel turning love into lust joy in sharing into joy in triumph and so on. rayse consciously or not chose to change from passion into odium . but the shard itself is essentially passion. all passions.  

 we see in other cases that the vessels mind and personality change, causing them to be incapable or unwilling to commit certain actions by slowly  getting "stuck in a rut" to the very end where their entirely unable to do things contrary to the intent of the shard. unlike the beginning where we see honor was able to break that oath/agreement and live with cultivation.

so if mother Teresa had picked up passion i think it would have become the shard of love.

also the stormfather is heavily biased and who can say (other than brandon) how much he really knows? after all he is a "new" sentience.

another idea of mine is that odiums hate is possibly the leftover emotion from Adonalsiums final moments 

 also if it is the shard of odium-hate  then is there a counter-shard love? and if so is there a diametric shard of logic and its counter of madness?

p.s the joy of victory-the thrill? 

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A few thoughts that were raised while I listened on the plane yesterday:

(1) Shards follow Rules (on the previous podcast) - I am wondering if this is a more Roshar specific thing because of honor's presence there.  I am not sure that Shards on other worlds would be similarly bound by a contest of champions, and other shards seem capable of breaking their word (Dominion and Aona setting up shop together, for example, and Preservation's betrayal).  

 

(2) Other Shards Seeing Odium more clearly than Rayse - Counter to @WeiryWriter's point, I would contextualize it this way: All the shards, I think, view themselves as divine to some extent.  They can see into the spiritual where location and time are meaningless, and in some form, Adonalsium is still one.  With all that information, I think it would be difficult to tell what you have and what you perceive yourself to have.  Shards are so immense I think they almost need to be viewed from a distance to be seen clearly.  Other Shards can perceive each other more clearly because they have some perspective and distance from the power they are observing to view it objectively, even though they may be perceiving their own power inaccurately.  Bascially, I think Rayse is too close to Odium to have enough perspective to accurately assess the extent of the intent, and I think the opinion of other shards is more trustworthy.  

 

(3) Erosion of Mind by Intent - I would apply the 'petrified wood' example that Brandon has used for explaining cognitive shadows.  Over time, I think any vessels mind will be completely eroded.  The shape that is left at the end (the shape of the wood if the metaphor is used) will still look kind of like the vessel, but the material that it is now made out of (the rock that replaces the wood) will be the same material no matter who holds the shard.

 

(4) Ruin as Entropy - I agree this is a key part of Ruin's intent, however I do disagree that Ruin as we knew him showed no malice.  Reread those chapters - he becomes very malicious, and enjoys the destruction (though he tries to pretend he does not).  I agree with others who have spoken here that Ruin desires to speed or enhance the natural process of entropy.  If he was purely entropy (or purely interpreting his shard as entropy) he would have been fine to let the Ashmounts and the Deepness destroy the world, but instead he still sought to regain the Atium and become whole so that he could wipe the world away in an instant.  

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I don't think rayse is all emotion but all emotion in excess. Emotions taken to the extreme. When I think passionate people I think of zealots or fanboy; the deeper the passion the deeper the hate for anything other. An overly passionate person will easily draw a battle line and sort people and things into groups.

Now if he is passionate about being THE supreme being then being odius is a matter of course. Anything for him or anything he can use is good. Anything other is useless and inconsequential...  or dangerous.

So what is he passionate about. Passion is the driving force of ambition. So does the fact that he shattered Ambition influence him in anyway, say causing him to be more ambitious. Can you mix and match shards. Say 98% passion and 1% ambition. 0.5% devotion. 0.5% Dominion.

Edited by Pandemonium

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