Shardcast: Death Rattles 2


It's time for Death Rattles on Shardcast this week! Check out our previous episode for our previous analysis ( https://www.17thshard.com/news/shardcast/shardcast-death-rattles-analysis-1-r478/ ) There are some pretty good ones this week, in addition to us not knowing Words of Radiance chapter titles, apparently.

Today we have Eric (Chaos), Ian (WeiryWriter), Evgeni (Argent), and David (Windrunner). 

Shardcast is the premier podcast on Brandon's works, Stormlight Archive, Mistborn, and all of the cosmere, run by the mega-fans at 17th Shard. We strive for high-quality discussion and analysis and accuracy, but if we missed something, we're sure you'll comment below!

Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected]

 

Edited by Chaos




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“Just a note...I the the Storm Father’s visions were completely unrelated to a nahel bond. Dalinar didn’t bond the Stormfather until well after he can completed the entire vision cycle. Gavilar didn’t have to have bonded the Stormfather. I think he randomly sent visions to a few people to see what would happen. When Dalinar spoke the oaths in WoR, the Stormfather’s response seems like he had not allowed himself to be bonded since the recreance.  Just my personal opinion. Here is the scene:

“Dalinar looked to the sky again. “I have been commanded to refound the Knights Radiant. I will need to join their number if I am to lead them.” Distant thunder rumbled in the sky, though there were no clouds. “Life before death!” Dalinar shouted. “Strength before weakness! Journey before destination!” I AM THE SLIVER OF THE ALMIGHTY HIMSELF ! the voice said, sounding angry. I AM THE S TORMFATHER. I WILL NOT LET MYSELF BE BOUND IN SUCH A WAY AS TO KILL ME ! “I need you,” Dalinar said. “Despite what you did. The bridgeman spoke of oaths given, and of each order of knights being different. The First Ideal is the same. After that, each order is unique, requiring different Words.” The thunder rumbled. It sounded . . . like a challenge. Could Dalinar interpret thunder now? This was a dangerous gambit. He confronted something primal, something unknowable. Something that had actively tried to murder him and his entire army. “Fortunately,” Dalinar said, “I know the second oath I am to make. I don’t need to be told it. I will unite instead of divide, Stormfather. I will bring men together.” The thunder silenced. Dalinar stood alone, staring at the sky, waiting. V ERY WELL , the Stormfather finally said. T HESE W ORDS ARE A CCEPTED. Dalinar smiled. I WILL NOT BE A SIMPLE SWORD TO YOU , the Stormfather warned. I WILL NOT COME AS YOU CALL, AND YOU WILL HAVE TO DIVEST YOURSELF OF THAT . . . MONSTROSITY THAT YOU CARRY. Y OU WILL BE A R ADIANT WITH NO S HARDS.”

Now that I said this, there’s probably a WoB somewhere that says Gavilar bonded the Stormfather...you all said that as if was cold, hard fact. 

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beantheboy12

Posted (edited)

So! Just a suggestion: What if there was an episode where we caught up on the WTCC thing? An episode of entirely WTCCs? I know that Chaos has been wanting to critique our entries anyway...

@Chaos

Edited by beantheboy12

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3 hours ago, Brightness Jencee said:

“Just a note...I the the Storm Father’s visions were completely unrelated to a nahel bond. Dalinar didn’t bond the Stormfather until well after he can completed the entire vision cycle. Gavilar didn’t have to have bonded the Stormfather. I think he randomly sent visions to a few people to see what would happen. When Dalinar spoke the oaths in WoR, the Stormfather’s response seems like he had not allowed himself to be bonded since the recreance.  Just my personal opinion. Here is the scene:

“Dalinar looked to the sky again. “I have been commanded to refound the Knights Radiant. I will need to join their number if I am to lead them.” Distant thunder rumbled in the sky, though there were no clouds. “Life before death!” Dalinar shouted. “Strength before weakness! Journey before destination!” I AM THE SLIVER OF THE ALMIGHTY HIMSELF ! the voice said, sounding angry. I AM THE S TORMFATHER. I WILL NOT LET MYSELF BE BOUND IN SUCH A WAY AS TO KILL ME ! “I need you,” Dalinar said. “Despite what you did. The bridgeman spoke of oaths given, and of each order of knights being different. The First Ideal is the same. After that, each order is unique, requiring different Words.” The thunder rumbled. It sounded . . . like a challenge. Could Dalinar interpret thunder now? This was a dangerous gambit. He confronted something primal, something unknowable. Something that had actively tried to murder him and his entire army. “Fortunately,” Dalinar said, “I know the second oath I am to make. I don’t need to be told it. I will unite instead of divide, Stormfather. I will bring men together.” The thunder silenced. Dalinar stood alone, staring at the sky, waiting. V ERY WELL , the Stormfather finally said. T HESE W ORDS ARE A CCEPTED. Dalinar smiled. I WILL NOT BE A SIMPLE SWORD TO YOU , the Stormfather warned. I WILL NOT COME AS YOU CALL, AND YOU WILL HAVE TO DIVEST YOURSELF OF THAT . . . MONSTROSITY THAT YOU CARRY. Y OU WILL BE A R ADIANT WITH NO S HARDS.”

Now that I said this, there’s probably a WoB somewhere that says Gavilar bonded the Stormfather...you all said that as if was cold, hard fact. 

I agree with this. I didn’t think the visions were linked to bonding the Stormfather and don’t see why he couldn’t send them to multiple people at once. He essentially does this in Oathbringer at Dalinar’s request. 

As to some death rattle discussion. In reference to “the day was ours but they took it.” This one made me think of the battle before the Everstorm. The Alethi technically won that battle but were too late to stop the storm. 

And the last one from the King of Jah Keved. I think it would be interesting if Taravangian was overhearing a death rattle about himself. The night reigns obviously being Odium. But “the choice of honor is life” fits with Taravangian’s ideas to save who he can. So he views it as honorable to do what he must to save those he can given he sees Odium’s reign as inevitable. 

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Child of Hodor

Posted (edited)

Moash explicitly saved Kaladin’s life in tWoK when Dunny gets killed with arrows and is lying on a bridge Kaladin is going after the body. Moash tackles him to the side right before a cavalry charged across the bridge trampling Dunny into paste.

Ch. 53 Dunny

“There’s nothing you could have done. I’m sorry.” 

When Kaladin summons Syl the Stormfather accepts his words AND there is a huge gust of wind that blows down the hallway through the hole Szeth made earlier. 

Black Piper

In my head I associate this with the Black Fisher. Both luring something out as a trick or trap. 

Pied Piper lured rats out with music. Sirens lure sailors to their deaths at sea with music. Fishers get fish onto hooks with lures. 

@Chaos connection is great, the Rhythms. There is a lot we don’t know, they are a “natural” Cosmere phenomenon, but Odium clearly offers corrupted versions to the Singers. Or maybe he tunes their frequency so they can hear the more hateful versions. 

Taking Sorrow

Definitely in line with taking “pain” including unpleasant emotions like guilt.

I think Odium really takes them or they end up in his inferno anyways. Most of the Unmade we’ve seen don’t take emotion, they Riot it to borrow MB term. They intensify it and extend the duration.

The Thrill has people fighting all through the night despite the battle being decided in Jah Keved according to the WoR Mr. T interlude. 

The Heart of the Revel has people partying all the time, wasting food. There is the weirdness with the food Kaladin sees in the palace that had flies swarming it but seemed preserved. Those soldiers that had been locked up with no food for weeks but they thought it was only a day or two. 

It is like these Unmade grow or CULTIVATE emotion for Odium to harvest. :D

Doesn’t mean some Unmade don’t have other functions or they were of Cultivation before. Just a pattern I notice.

Edited by Child of Hodor

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thegatorgirl00

Posted

Quote

They break the land itself! They want it, but in their rage they will destroy it. Like the jealous man burns his rich things rather than let them be taken by his enemies! They come!

What this reminds me of a bit is the creation of the Shattered Plains.

Quote

The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!

And because I'm me and I constantly have PUuli's interlude in the back of my mind, I would like to say that I think this could be refering to the same thing.

Quote

They'll come with Light in their pockets, Grandfather had said. They'll come to destroy, but you should watch for them anyway. Because they'll come from the Origin. The sailors lost on an infinite sea. You keep that fire high at night, Puuli. You burn it bright until the day they come.

They'll arrive when the night is darkest.

They both talk about some kind of enemy approaching. And when is the night darkest? When all the lights fail...

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"The darkness becomes a palace" reminds me of Dalinar's Purelake vision. "It was a fortress. Dalinar halted, looking up at the peaked, castle-like structure that rose straight from the still lake waters. He’d never seen its like before. Jet-black stone. Obsidian?...Finlike sides rising toward peaked tips above, towers like arrowheads . . . Stormfather. It’s majestic."

They're searching for a Sja-anat corrupted spren during that vision, and encounter a thunderclast.

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@Chaos!!!!

Thought I'd drop a comment just in case no one else has: About Moash saving Kaladin's life. Happens in Chapter 33 of the Way of the Kings. Dunny gets shot in a bridge run, and Kaladin goes to save him, but Moash holds him back so he doesn't get trampled by the cavalry.

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On 4/11/2019 at 0:23 AM, Vertigo said:

@Chaos!!!!

Thought I'd drop a comment just in case no one else has: About Moash saving Kaladin's life. Happens in Chapter 33 of the Way of the Kings. Dunny gets shot in a bridge run, and Kaladin goes to save him, but Moash holds him back so he doesn't get trampled by the cavalry.

Which means that the death rattle in question is probably in fact about Kaladin swearing his third oath. 

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Impact

Posted

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 5:38 AM, Child of Hodor said:

Moash explicitly saved Kaladin’s life in tWoK when Dunny gets killed with arrows and is lying on a bridge Kaladin is going after the body. Moash tackles him to the side right before a cavalry charged across the bridge trampling Dunny into paste.

Ch. 53 Dunny

“There’s nothing you could have done. I’m sorry.” 

I came here just to say the same thing.  The entire time I was listening in my car, I was yelling "AFTER DUNNY DIES!!!! THE BRIDGE!!! HE ALMOST GOT TRAMPLED!!!"

So thank you

 

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