Worldhopping forger

[Kingsdaughter613]

14 minutes ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

Do we know that he can't hurt returned and heralds? 

It’s indicated by his shock at being able to hurt Kelsier.

[Mistborn Surgebinder]

1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

It’s indicated by his shock at being able to hurt Kelsier.

Chronologically, as it stands right now, mistborn takes place before SA. He may not have known he can hurt the dead then, but he does now. He may not have tried to hurt any returned or heralds, though. He may not have reason, or he may just know how powerful they are. I'd be willing to bet that he can hurt returned and heralds but just hasn't tried. He's playing the long game. 

[Kingsdaughter613]

Just now, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

Chronologically, as it stands right now, mistborn takes place before SA. He may not have known he can hurt the dead then, but he does now. He may not have tried to hurt any returned or heralds, though. He may not have reason, or he may just know how powerful they are. I'd be willing to bet that he can hurt returned and heralds but just hasn't tried. He's playing the long game. 

Hoid has been around for millennia. He hasn’t been able to hurt people since before the Shattering. If he was able to hurt most Shadows, I don’t think it would have taken him nearly 10,000 years to figure it out.

[Mistborn Surgebinder]

3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Hoid has been around for millennia. He hasn’t been able to hurt people since before the Shattering. If he was able to hurt most Shadows, I don’t think it would have taken him nearly 10,000 years to figure it out.

There's a reason he was able to attack Kelsier. Between what we know of that situation and what brandosando has said in wobs, Hoid could attack kel because he's dead.  I'd be willing to concede that Hoid wouldn't be able to hurt kel or anyone else in the physical realm, but I'd put large amounts of money on the idea that if Hoid were in the cognitive realm and the dead person were in the cognitive realm, Hoid can hurt them. Like, if Hoid was in shadesmar, and a herald was in shadesmar, and Hoid had reason to do so, he could absolutely hurt the herald. 

[Kingsdaughter613]

43 minutes ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

There's a reason he was able to attack Kelsier. Between what we know of that situation and what brandosando has said in wobs, Hoid could attack kel because he's dead.  I'd be willing to concede that Hoid wouldn't be able to hurt kel or anyone else in the physical realm, but I'd put large amounts of money on the idea that if Hoid were in the cognitive realm and the dead person were in the cognitive realm, Hoid can hurt them. Like, if Hoid was in shadesmar, and a herald was in shadesmar, and Hoid had reason to do so, he could absolutely hurt the herald. 

I think the Shadow would need to not have a body. Kelsier only thought Hoid was hurting him, but Hoid never actually did. So can Hoid actually hurt a Shadow, or is he only capable of making a Shadow think it was hurt.

[Mistborn Surgebinder]

17 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think the Shadow would need to not have a body. Kelsier only thought Hoid was hurting him, but Hoid never actually did. So can Hoid actually hurt a Shadow, or is he only capable of making a Shadow think it was hurt.

There's a difference between hurting and attacking though.  Hoid isn't allowed to attack people, but he's apparently allowed to attack cognitive shadows.  It's up to the CSs perception of itself on whether or not it gets hurt.  Whether or not, as of Mistborn era 4, Kel thinks he can be hurt or not, what I'm saying is that it would be possible for there to be another fight between Kel and Hoid.  They would be able to attack each other, each of them having multiple magics to draw from (if Kel is the hema-hoid).  Whether or not either one would be capable of being hurt, I understand, is a different story, and it may actually make it far more fascinating if they're not.  Either way, my original point that a 2nd confrontation between K and H in era 4 where they both have multiple magic systems would be both possible, and cool, and would be narratively cohesive of several different levels.

[Kingsdaughter613]

20 minutes ago, Mistborn Surgebinder said:

There's a difference between hurting and attacking though.  Hoid isn't allowed to attack people, but he's apparently allowed to attack cognitive shadows.  It's up to the CSs perception of itself on whether or not it gets hurt.  Whether or not, as of Mistborn era 4, Kel thinks he can be hurt or not, what I'm saying is that it would be possible for there to be another fight between Kel and Hoid.  They would be able to attack each other, each of them having multiple magics to draw from (if Kel is the hema-hoid).  Whether or not either one would be capable of being hurt, I understand, is a different story, and it may actually make it far more fascinating if they're not.  Either way, my original point that a 2nd confrontation between K and H in era 4 where they both have multiple magic systems would be both possible, and cool, and would be narratively cohesive of several different levels.

Oh, definitely. I’m really excited to see their second round.