Yados Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) Currently, I'm messing around with a larger project (tentatively) named The Reaper. However, I don't quite have enough time/prewriting to write a full novel at the moment. I'm thinking about jumping in full force and at least have stuff to edit later w/ NaNoWriMo, but for the next month I have too much school/work on my plate. At least that's how it seems. I may start early regardless. So I'm doing short stories set in the world of The Reaper with little to no relationship with the main plot. Which is nice because I get to play around with other countries, cultures, and magic systems which were in my notes but didn't directly factor into the big arc. Blood and Tallow ties a bit more to the main plot than I expected it to at the end, but I think it still stands alone. At least I hope. Happy readings! Edited October 10, 2011 by Yados 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recovering_cynic he/him Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 Alright, there are a lot of brilliant ideas in this piece, which I think is its greatest downfall. It is very clear after reading it that this comes from a larger work, and that helped muddle something that was already a little muddled. Let me explain. You tell the story out of order, which makes your reader have to work really hard to figure out what is going on. This is not necessarily a bad thing; it adds some delicious hooks, but add on top of that a steep (nearly vertical) learning curve regarding the setting, and reading this story felt more like work than it did pleasure. IMO, you need to change one or the other or both to make this work as a short story. There is a lot of history/culture details packed into the story that could be eliminated or simplified so that your reader can focus more on what is going on than trying to figure out why all of it is going on. To be honest, I still don't understand why they were breaking into the prison or why the elf was important or any of that. One other (unrelated) problem I noted was why the god needed an apprentice in the first place. The arrows couldn't hit him and he seemed to be pretty adept at doing about anything he wanted (leaping tall buildings, punching through doors), so I don't quite understand why your MC needed to come along at all. This leads to what I think is the biggest problem with the piece; clarity is fixable with some editing and simplifiying, but by the end, I felt like there was something missing. The girl is the MC, and yet most of the end is not about her at all. In fact, by the end, her personality seemed to have changed completely and she became a psychopathic god killing everything around her. I didn't get a sense of satisfaction from the ending. Anyway, that's about the summation of my macro-level critiques. I love all the ideas, but I had a hard time sorting through them in the form they are presented. As to the micro-level, I wanted more descripiton and more clarity of description in this piece. For example, when they jump to the corridor where your MC becomes ascends, I had a mental picture of a narrow hallway and that's about it, but then there are suddenly 20 archers. It seemed to me that there wouldn't be room for them and most of them wouldn't be able to do anything since they couldn't see down the corridor. Also, if there are only three candles, how the heck do they see anything at all? I was confused by this part. Another part that confused me was where your MC gets off the train in a bustling city, eats at a cafe, sees the sights, and then one paragraph later, she's in a cave. I thought maybe I had missed a page or something, but that's what actually happens. I still don't understand the transition. Anyway, to sum it all up, I love the ideas and the creativity, but I had a hard time with clarity for the reasons stated above. This piece has a lot of promise and it could be awesome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 That is all quite valid. This is my first draft and it suffers from, among other things, being for a creative writing workshop with strict, strict page limits. Which, thankfully, don't apply to revisions, so I can do whatever I want with it from here on out. The limit meant a lot of the downtime between Barryl and Aerill, which better established what exactly they were doing, had to go. As well as their relationship and how it thematically tied in to the first two segments. What also had to go was an extended fight scene (well, all the fights really) that got replaced hastily with "archers archers everywhere" as well as the "bows are guns" stuff. Also the sequences would have introduced another magic system all together. Though, in retrospect, that was a good call as there is a lot going on here for 20 pages. Right now, as of that critique, my list of things to do with the story are as follows: 1) Add in character stuff between Barryl and Aerill. 2) Add in action scenes. On the wall as well as in the dungeon. Greater sense of danger. Especially in regards to Barryl because the arrows going through him was a complete afterthought and a bad one at that. 3) Expand/Better Describe the ascension in the dungeon. 4) Just tie in the second half in better with the first half. 5) More visual descriptions. 6) Try to make the chronology more accessible. 7) Expand the University scene to include a least a little student life. Is there anything specific you can think of that might help make the learning curve less steep? Right now I'm kind of toying with the idea of expanding it into a 100-120 page novella for NaNoWriMo instead of plunging into the Reaper as I kind of have a better outline for this at the moment. Especially since I've had it commented to me that this reads like a few scenes from a much larger story that the reader doesn't get to read. Maybe I should just write that story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recovering_cynic he/him Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 If you are planning on expanding this into a novella, I'm not sure you need to simplify it at all. There is certainly enough fodder her for a book/novella. Just expand it all, perhaps a bit slower. I didn't feel like I mostly understood the world/setting/magic until near the very end and by then the story was over so I didn't get to enjoy it. If you were to keep this a short story (which I think can be done), I would recommend honing it down to a fine point. As it stands, you have political intrigue coupled with becoming a god coupled with being outcast from home coupled with a heist coupled with a nutty demi-god bent on destroying the world. That is just too much for a short story and your reader has to come to grips with all of it since all of it is foreign to them. What do you really want it to be about? It's too busy right now, so figure out what you want it to really be about and focus on that while eliminating or greatly reducing the other elements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjhuitt he/him Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I agree with recovering_cynic that the end seems a disappointment. (Well, I agree with about everything he said, but still...) To me, the beginning sets up a problem where Aerill lost her place in the world -- her home, her position, etc. Now, she did retain some position by going to the training for Gods (a very interesting idea, btw), but she lost what she had thought of as hers. This means that by the end, I would expect her to either create herself a position similar to the old one (become a noble herself), or reconcile herself to a new position. In a way, you might argue you had the latter, but with the change in personality, it didn't work well for me. Additionally, despite the very end, it appeared that Aerill basically died, twice. Another problem I can see in the piece is that Aerill isn't very active in it at all. She does what her father says, then she does what Barryl says. The only time it appeared she acted on her own was just after she ascended, and that seemed like an out-of-control outpouring of power. The hunting added a nice aspect to her character, but in a piece this short I expected it to play more into the resolution somehow. At the end, it appeared to have nothing to do with the events, either Aerill's ascension or Barryl's activities. There was some mention of how she might have become quite a hunter, but beyond that, not much. The whole end actions of Barryl, after Aerill had been shaken apart -- how did that relate to Aerill's story? It seemed like it was tacked on to make sense out of what happened to her, plus maybe tie in to something else. Taken just as this story, I don't think it helped any. Finally, the interweaving storyline was quite confusing at first. It might improve the story, but I thought the transitions between them needed work. Especially near the beginning, I was lost about when each scene was happening as they were switched around. In a piece like this, with all the other backstory going on, I would suggest working hard to make sure there isn't any extra confusion in those parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBeardRaven he/him Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 On page 8-9 there is a term "Gem-Rail" and a station but there is no description of the place at all. This through me out of the story completely as I originally thought this was a typical medieval/fantasy setting. Now there seems to be some sort of train/monorail/subway system. This after her and Barryl just "stormed" a castle/fortress. That was while reading. Which is in part what Cynic said. Just to reiterate. It felt that you should presume that trains/monorails are in this world with wizards/dragons/elves/demi-gods and the like. I feel that should have been eased into with a description or a light telling of the differences between nations/cities and the like. One thing that caught me off-guard was with Aerill in the beginning. It was that her stomach lurched as her father picked apart the dragon and she fought back a flinch at the crushing of dragon bones. Then she has a reminiscent memory of hunting and her heart pounding the blood of her fresh kill. It seemed good but completely faltering the earlier characterization. I do like that you make Aerill out to be a more robust girl instead of the pencil thin seductress that follows in most fantasies. Cynic, when I read that Barryl took Aerill into storming the castle it was meant to be in as much secret as possible. I might be wrong in it, but I felt it was implied since she was telling him which parts of the fortress was the least lit that he was going for secrecy and for an "all seeing eye" to shadow their path. Also, I felt that she would be a good scapegoat if things went wrong (which they did). I liked a lot of the ideas in this short story and I think it read well (besides the out of order sequences that jars the reader out of story). I feel that the best way to make this work as a short story is to shorten the non important sequences (to the overarching plot) into short...SHORT flashbacks so that you are telling the tale of Aerill falling from being a nobel to becoming a goddess in training to her ascension to her demise (or was it!? BUM BUM BUM). (also I would suggest keeping the talk between Barryl and the elf warrior in there but from Aerill's perspective) I would, however, HIGHLY recommend making this into a novella and do it for NANOWRIMO and getting it done and out of your head so you can then work the kinks out and sell it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recovering_cynic he/him Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Cynic, when I read that Barryl took Aerill into storming the castle it was meant to be in as much secret as possible. I might be wrong in it, but I felt it was implied since she was telling him which parts of the fortress was the least lit that he was going for secrecy and for an "all seeing eye" to shadow their path. Also, I felt that she would be a good scapegoat if things went wrong (which they did). Yes, I got that vibe as well, but what bothered me was that Barryl seemed pretty indestructible in this version, which made me wonder why he bothered with stealth at all. Now that Yados has explained it, it makes more sense, but from the way the story is told, by the end, I wondered why she was brought along at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akoebel Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 My, that was a nice trailer for the novel! Very interesting setting (love the god's apprentices), with nice prose. I read the 16 pages quite quickly, which is always a good sign for me. Now, as the others said, the one issue is the ending where we abandon the POV character to go see a scene where we don't really understand what was going on. You even let us believe that the POV character is dead, only to reveal later that she's still here (but probably completely mad). Yes, I'm missing some resolution about Aerill. I wasn't disturbed by most of the flashbacks, except the one on page 8 where I got confused when I understood she was meeting Barryl for the first time. The piece was very interesting, I hope you do something with it. Expanding the story looks like a fantastic notion here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TleeMcCllelan she/her Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Sorry about the late reply . Just read this piece. I love some of the ideas you are playing with but have to agree with some of the earlier commentors that it was a lot of work to read when we hopped between scenes. But for a first draft looking at going to a novella it seems like it could be expanded into something pretty awesome. The ending kinda threw me off though. He cares about her but his actions say otherwise. Her actions on the other had could be similar to the knife guys obsession. She does not see her actions as wrong or strange because of her fixation? Anyway great ideas and I am looking forward to reading more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Post feedback for new version here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjhuitt he/him Posted March 3, 2012 Report Share Posted March 3, 2012 Maybe it was because this was my second time reading the story, and I knew a little more about what to expect. Maybe it was that you made some improvements to the flow of the story. Whichever it was, I did find this version easier to follow through the breaks and the time jumps. With that said, I still think it was too hard. The transitions need improvement, in my opinion. The first paragraph or two after the breaks can sometimes be read as a continuation of the previous section, which doesn't help with the clarity. The most egregious of these was when Aerill had just been shot and died (with a candle falling next to her). The next paragraph, after the section break, talked about Aerill feeling herself flow into Candle, which could easily be read as a simple continuation of the previous, set apart into a different section for emphasis. I think you're on the right track for a non-linear story, however. The sections seem placed well to build up to the apotheosis at the end, delving more into what she has learned and further into her communion with Candle. If I was to suggest one way to shorten the story, I wonder if the first scene really needs to be here. The relevant details -- a non-magical daughter of a mage lord sent away from the family -- could be conveyed nearly as simply as I just did, in the next chapter or the one after. It helps with the description of Aerill somewhat, but I wonder how much the description of her matters by the time she becomes the Goddess of Tallow. Although now that I consider it, you might want to have her physique changing some through the story, as a bit of an omen for her eventual change. I'm not quite sure how much the bow fits into things anymore. Especially since the way the story is written now, it appears the point of Barryl taking her to attack the castle was to force the apotheosis, as opposed to rescuing a captive that was in the previous version. It makes me wonder what the bow is supposed to do, or help, that she needs it as a gift before they try their attack. I did enjoy Barryl's near negligence of how to use a bow, or what the pieces may be for. His glib dialogue in this section was nice. I also liked the idea behind the God of Sharpening, although I'm glad he didn't stick around in the story for long. If more words needed cutting, you might even cut down on his part some more. The passing mention of the Gem-Rail, and some of the other mentions, speak to more world-building than can be shown in just this story, but having them here generally doesn't help me out. I think I remarked on this last time as well, but the Gem-Rail confused me to where I wanted either more explanation of it, or to not know about it at all. Since it is only mentioned as her transportation, it could probably be cut as well with little to no affect on the rest of the story. If it has further significance in other stories you want to relate to this one, or to weave around this one, then maybe a passing description of it? Or do what you feel you need to, I guess. Near the end, arrows start passing through Barryl. I seem to recall in the last version there was a bit of explanation for that. In this version, he's catching arrows in his body, then pulling them out or having them fall out. Then, suddenly, they pass through him. It's dramatic, but the change possibly undercuts the drama somewhat. I think I preferred having a bit of explanation for this in the text as well. It wouldn't take much, maybe a quick line about how he can become incorporeal, but unfortunately for her, she can't. I thought the phrasing of her blood spidering out at the opening of the last section was a vivid image, but an odd one. Mostly it's the use of spidering, I think. Also, I'm not exactly sure what Barryl is doing when he's digging his fingers into her head, and urging her to fight it. I assume the fighting (and the thing with her name) was her needing to establish her own balance with the World and her actual person, so that one is not completely overwhelmed by the other. The part where he's digging fingers into her head was more where my confusion came from. However, that wasn't much. In the end, I thought Barryl's go-away line was nice, but I was hoping to see just a touch more of Aerill using her powers -- under conscious control, anyway. Especially if she used them to nearly immediately get them out of the tower/out of trouble. It doesn't have to be long or drawn out, but something for me as a reader to positively gain from the transformation, besides the nebulous eternal-life aspect to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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