Cultivation been manipulating kaladin?

[Valigus]

does anyone think cultivation was just abess glass from book of the ancestor but a dragon before becoming cultivation. (If you don’t know who that is it’s one of the most fun characters ever and a good example of characters whose plans always work out not stealing any narrative tension)

Ok so i’m a believer that cultivation has been manipulating everyone and has some massive master plan and I think there are some interesting things about kaladin that make me suspicious of her having a hand in some of the events surrounding him. 

1. Kaladin spends a good amount of book one believing he is cursed with bad luck and speculates it was the night watcher. What if he is right, considering what we now know about cultivation It seems legitimately possible she had some hand in it.

2. Why did nobody know about kaladin, heleran at the command of the sky breakers came to kill amaram, it seems that the sky breakers knew Tien was a proto radiant nobody ever knew about kaladin or came after hmm despite him killing their shardbearer. On top of this the sky breakers seem to take some level of orders from cultivation since she must have given nightblood to nale who then was to give it to szeth.

3. when syl describes her early time coming after kaladin she describes a pure sound that called her there, this has been assumed to be mean Tien by pretty much everyone but what if it wasn’t what if cultivation woke syl up and led her to kaladin?

4. Kaladins spear feedback loop- basically the feedback loop through the spiritual realm is really really strong. We see plenty of others who are natural and gifted warriors and none of them ever display a similar degree of it affecting them. Neither adolin nor Dalinar or anyone else ever describe the degree of affect on them outside the influence of the thrill or odium but kaladin despite significantly less training or experience compared to either is at least as good as if not better then them. It’s specifically odd because these are two incredibly talented people he degree his natural skill enhances his abilities is abnormal.

but we do see someone who displays similar natural aptitude, vin, no I don’t know if this whole idea was thought out previously as in when mistborn was written but I think in hind sight it seems very likely that vin had a similar spiritual feedback loop(in fact it’s likely that the idea of “talent” in general in the cosmere is related to this). Now it’s possible that they just are more talented since they are main characters but that doesn’t explain other similar symptoms like the relationship they both have to their respective talent. Both vin and kaladin seem to have an almost physical need to exercise this talent, kaladin picks up a spear and it takes over completely changing him, vin after being stuck inside for long time becomes restless and feels a need to use her powers it’s very similar to the way kaladin picks up a spear and needs to fight. Now other characters have similar things like Dalinar has an addiction to the thrill and adolin loves dueling, but adolin while he loves it never displays a similar bordering on physical need to fight. Dalinar does display this and that is related to the thrill and direct shardic influence.

Dalinar also has a similar but slightly different relationship to the thrill, I think his is related to much more active shardic influence. He never displays this as a passive thing the way vin and kaladin do, for them it’s part of them for Dalinar it’s an effect being put on him.

So basically we have 3 cases of this strange talent/addiction/ physical draw to a power/ fighting/ whatever else, one of them is different from the other two and is clearly due to direct shardic influence, one of them being vin seems very likely to be due to either direct shardic influence since she was groomed by cultivation I think either the spiritual feedback loop that grants skill, or the loop was naturally stronger because she took up a shard. Kaladin I think in this instance is unlikely to be dealing with direct shardic influence because his thing is more similar to vins then Dalinars, it is possible that it is due to him taking up a shard depending on how vin got her feedback loop enhanced. but it cannot be that honor enhanced the loop so there are two possibilities I think.

1. Kaladin will take up a shard(or become some other powerful entity)- which I do think is very possible considering the strange other abilities he has shown and the fact he is called son of tanavast.

or, and this is the one relevant for my crazy speculation 

2. Cultivation must have enhanced the spiritual feedback loop, it cannot have been honor since he is dead and idk why odium would do it. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Valigus

[Frustration he/him]

I've had a lot of similar thoughts myself.

Shameless self plug

Where did you get the feedback loop from? 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Frustration

[Valigus]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I've had a lot of similar thoughts myself.

Shameless self plug

Where did you get the feedback loop from? 

Lol I feel like we are the only two people who think cultivation is responsible for basically everything.

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Questioner

Why is Kaladin so proficient-- Like naturally born to wield a spear. Is that a weapon he likes or is it a destiny for him?

Brandon Sanderson

So destiny is a strong term... I would say he has natural aptitude, but no more so than a normal person who has a natural aptitude for something. But the way the Spiritual Realm works in the cosmere and the way Connection works, there were certain things that were happening to Kaladin before they happened...

It's like Syl says in one of the books. "You didn't know me then, but I knew you then. Even though we hadn't met yet, I still knew you." You see some weird Connection things too. And these are mostly just for fun sort of cosmere connections. Like when you see Syl take on the look of Shallan standing on the beach. There's gonna be a connection there. It's forming, it doesn't exist yet, but all things are one in the Spiritual Realm, and we're just kinda seeing echoes of that. It's not meant to be destiny, it's more meant to be, "Hey there's little connections happening".

I would not say Kaladin is any more naturally gifted in that than your average professional sports player is naturally gifted in what they do.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

He does say that kaladin is not more naturally gifted then a normal person but I think that’s misleading probably on purpose, maybe it was changed or maybe it’s to hide future points but the fact that he killed a shardbearer and displays more natural skill then every other character we see in stormlight despite them all being talented fighters with years sometimes decades more training is way more then just normally talented. Also the near physical need to act when holding a spear isn’t displayed by anyone else.

like adolin is a talented swordsmen training since he was a young child kaladin picked up a spear 5 years ago and he is about as good as adolin. Additionally once again he doesn’t seem to have a near physical dependency or urge tied to the use of his powers/ skill like vin and kaladin.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Valigus

[+mdross81 he/him]

47 minutes ago, Valigus said:

Lol I feel like we are the only two people who think cultivation is responsible for basically everything.

You are not alone. I have increasingly been thinking this as well.

And not just Kal. There’s gotta be something to the fact that Shallan’s early explorations of surgebinding took place in the heavily cultivated gardens of Davar manor. There’s the way she describes cultivating souls on a page when she sketches someone from memory. And at one point, which I can’t seem to find right now, she talks about how her memories are overgrown/tangled/snarled or something like that.

I’m workin on my own Cultivation post as well, hoping to explore what she might be up to.

Edit: ok, I found the passage now, from RoW chapter 30:

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Veil faded into Shallan. These memories … these were something lost to her. From the years leading up to her … her mother’s death. That twisted, knotted, overgrown time in her brain, hidden behind carefully cultivated flower beds. When she sorted through her memories, it didn’t feel like anything was missing. Yet she knew from other clues that there were holes.

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by mdross81

[Valigus]

2 hours ago, mdross81 said:

You are not alone. I have increasingly been thinking this as well.

And not just Kal. There’s gotta be something to the fact that Shallan’s early explorations of surgebinding took place in the heavily cultivated gardens of Davar manor. There’s the way she describes cultivating souls on a page when she sketches someone from memory. And at one point, which I can’t seem to find right now, she talks about how her memories are overgrown/tangled/snarled or something like that.

I’m workin on my own Cultivation post as well, hoping to explore what she might be up to.

Edit: ok, I found the passage now, from RoW chapter 30:

 

that’s my original post about basically everyone.
Another one is jasnah she mentions having a childhood illness nobody remembers, which sounds like cultivation.

[+mdross81 he/him]

3 hours ago, Valigus said:

Ok so i’m a believer that cultivation has been manipulating everyone and has some massive master plan and I think there are some interesting things about kaladin that make me suspicious of her having a hand in some of the events surrounding him.

Forgot to mention in my response above, that I had one additional thing to add re: Kaladin. Once we finally had a name for Cultivation's vessel, I went looking for any characters whose names sounded similar. Didn't find much. Just three characters, all in Way of Kings.

The first (chronologically, not the order in which it appears in the book) appears in the flashback in Chapter 47. Kal goes to see Gare, the squadleader in Amaram's army that Kal bribes to get Cenn. One of Gare's sergeants is a man named Korabet:

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Gare had beefy forearms and a thick black beard, though he'd lost a large section of scalp on the right side of his head. He was followed by two of his sergeants - Nalem and Korabet.

That's the only time he's ever mentioned. Probably nothing, although it's interesting that the other sergeant - Nalem - also has a name that bears a resemblance to that of a more major character.

The second name with kora in it is a member of Kaladin's squad in Amaram's army. Just before heading off to take down the first Shardbearer he faces that day, Kal orders two men to take the injured Cenn back:

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"Raise the red banner. Cyn, Korator, you're going back with the boy."

We actually see this scene twice. First from Cenn's perspective in Chapter 1 and then from Kal's in Chapter 47, the same as the one above. Again, it's probably nothing. Then again, Kal interacting with two characters with kora as part of their name on the day that will come to define him. It's ... just the slightest bit fishy.

Finally, in Chapter Chapter 46, just after Adolin rescues the courtesan in Sadeas's warcamp, he asks Kal to send a message to a Brightlord Reral Makoram in the Sixth Battalion. Adolin wants Kal to tell Makoram that Adolin won't make their meeting that day. Kal doesn't convey the message and we don't hear of this particular Brightlord again.

So ... not much here, but just wanted to point it out given the topic of your post.

 

[Valigus]

40 minutes ago, mdross81 said:

Forgot to mention in my response above, that I had one additional thing to add re: Kaladin. Once we finally had a name for Cultivation's vessel, I went looking for any characters whose names sounded similar. Didn't find much. Just three characters, all in Way of Kings.

The first (chronologically, not the order in which it appears in the book) appears in the flashback in Chapter 47. Kal goes to see Gare, the squadleader in Amaram's army that Kal bribes to get Cenn. One of Gare's sergeants is a man named Korabet:

That's the only time he's ever mentioned. Probably nothing, although it's interesting that the other sergeant - Nalem - also has a name that bears a resemblance to that of a more major character.

The second name with kora in it is a member of Kaladin's squad in Amaram's army. Just before heading off to take down the first Shardbearer he faces that day, Kal orders two men to take the injured Cenn back:

We actually see this scene twice. First from Cenn's perspective in Chapter 1 and then from Kal's in Chapter 47, the same as the one above. Again, it's probably nothing. Then again, Kal interacting with two characters with kora as part of their name on the day that will come to define him. It's ... just the slightest bit fishy.

Finally, in Chapter Chapter 46, just after Adolin rescues the courtesan in Sadeas's warcamp, he asks Kal to send a message to a Brightlord Reral Makoram in the Sixth Battalion. Adolin wants Kal to tell Makoram that Adolin won't make their meeting that day. Kal doesn't convey the message and we don't hear of this particular Brightlord again.

So ... not much here, but just wanted to point it out given the topic of your post.

 

That’s cool, surprisinged there aren’t more

[+honorblades he/him]

Just a little thing to add. 

 

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There always seemed to be a reason Kaladin survived when those he'd tried to help died. Some men might have seen that as a blessing, but he saw it as an ironic kind of torment. He'd spent some time under his previous master speaking with a slave from the West, a Selay man who had spoken of the Old Magic from their legends and its ability to curse people. Could that be what was happening to Kaladin?

- The Way of Kings, Chapter 2

Edited March 4, 2021 by honorblades

[LordFlea]

Son of Tanavast - If Tanavast had a child with anyone it would be Cultivation, literal child I mean. But what if, similar to how memories were left to the Stormfather to pass to a worthy Bondsmith, what if he left something to Cultivation to pass to a worthy heir?