Who exactly is Hoid?

[dants he/him]

I was looking around at different forums, and I noticed something. Hoid. It seems the widely accepted theory is that Hoid is a good guy, because he's against Odium.

 

What if he's NOT a good guy? In WoR, He said that he had an objective, and was willing to watch the world burn to achieve it, right?

 

WHAT IF HOID shattered Adonalsium? It would explain why he says that the 17th Shard is hunting him in The Letter. It would certainly create a good plot twist.

 

It would also explain why Brandon is trying to keep him mysterious. What if Brandon wants to write an entire book from a bad guy's point of view? It would seem like a good idea to keep it for last. I'm wondering if, in Dragonsteel, we find out that Hoid is actually WORSE THAN ODIUM!?

 

Let the feedback begin!

 

Edit: Hoid is probably not worse than Odium, but the point still stands.

Edited June 4, 2014 by dants

[shawnhargreaves he/him]

I don't think Hoid is evil, mostly because in his various appearances he always shows sympathy for the good guys and tries to nudge them in the right direction.   But I do think he might be rather more grey and complicated than we'd like to think.

 

I think he's working toward something big, important, and ultimately beneficial  (I just don't buy him as villain)  and that he'll try to help out with other "local" problems if he can along the way, but he's too intensely focused on his long goal to get sucked into the gory details of what he sees as small scale, maybe even trivial conflicts that form the plot of the books we've read so far.

 

I also think there's a good chance he might be wrong about his goal.  Hoid thinks it is important and good, but it turns out to be the opposite.  And then he has to deal with "I let Roshar burn in order to achieve THIS????"

 

Edit:  I actually think Adonalsium is a more likely candidate than Hoid for surprise-they're-actually-evil.

Edited June 4, 2014 by shawnhargreaves

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

Hoid is Meedas.

 

That's what coppermind wiki says.

 

I reckon Hoid isn't really evil. If he broke Adolnasium, and is the writer of the Letter, why would he want to stop Odium so badly?

[Darkarma he/him]

Hoid is Meedas.

 

That's what coppermind wiki says.

 

I reckon Hoid isn't really evil. If he broke Adolnasium, and is the writer of the Letter, why would he want to stop Odium so badly?

He could feel that he's responsible, you don't have to be a bad guy to make bad decisions.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Darkarma

[Khyrindor he/him]

I don't think that he's evil per se, but I think it's possible that he Shattered Adonalsium, and is trying to put him back together out of guilt. Notice that he said he would let the world burn, with tears in his eyes. Letting it happen is different than doing it yourself.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Khyrindor

[shawnhargreaves he/him]

is trying to put him back together out of quilt.

 

Hilarious typo!

 

Adonalsium, the patchwork rug of deities...

[Khyrindor he/him]

Never happened! 

[snote]

I always like to think that Hoid is the champion of Knowledge or wisdom. He seems inclined to know everything he can. He seems like a master of gathering and disseminating information. I think Brandon is quoted with saying he is definitely not a Shard holder. Which means he is gaining his vast insight from somewhere. If he isn't the champion of one of those shards, it may be of Adonalsium itself. Since the power still exists throughout the cosmere, he is still somehow retaining its benefit.

[Cstryon he/him]

Hoid... May very well be the "bad guy". The Seventeenth Shard is hunting him down because of it. But even being a bad guy, he may have empathy, which would explain the tears in his eyes to watch Roshar burn. Maybe he wants to stop Odium, because without other big bad bosses being introduced yet, Odium is the bad guy.... And bad guys don't always get along. Than again, the Yolish, or Hoid himself, could just have some skewed ideas of what is good vs evil.

[Cracknut he/him]

So there's what I think.
17thshard is trying to catch him because:
a) They don't know what his motives are and he has too big of an influence to leave him alone. He's potential danger to Cosmere, and as long as they can't control him at least to some point he needs to be caught.
They need his knowledge. 17thshard might be most knowledgeable organisation in Cosmere but compared to him they're children.
c) 17thshard is doing something big, but Hoid is messing with their plans.
Or all of them.

Hoid as main antagonist:
I think Hoid shattered Adonalsium but he did it accidentally and now is trying to redeem himself by recreating it. He will be main antagonist of cosmere, because recreation of Adonalsium will also recreate Cosmere and destroy what it already is. I wouldn't say that he would be worse than Odium for that. Odium is pure hate, there's nothing more about him while Hoid is a human. He doesn't wants to destroy Cosmere, but for greater good and righting his own wrong he will do it. So ending won't be some good vs evil battle, it will be human vs human.
At this point I doubt 17thshard knows Hoid's motives so I don't think they're trying to catch him for that. They would be trying harder surely and Hoid's good at hiding his personality. 

17thshard:
There was a topic about Kelsier being a man-made shard and leader of 17thshard organisation. I'm buying that. there it is.
This also would explain why Kelsier and Hoid wouldn't get along. Because Hoid will destroy existing Cosmere to recreate Adonalsium while Kelsier will never have that.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Cracknut

[Terisen he/him]

I wouldn't call Hoid evil, but he is certainly an "ends justify the means" man. I, too, choose to believe that putting Adonalsium back together is his ultimate goal, but it's hard to say for sure.

This quote comes to mind when I think of Hoid:

"Every traveller is necessarily the hero of his own story, especially if he happens to travel alone. When he has the felicity of a companion the unavoidable egotism is obscured by the use of the social pronoun."

[M'Hael]

What exactly is The Letter?

[WeiryWriter he/him]

What exactly is The Letter?

 

The epigraphs from Part Two of The Way of Kings form a single missive which the fandom has nicknamed the Letter, a response appears in Part Four of Words of Radiance.

[Melaan]

I'm so glad someone mentioned this, because ever since reading the letter in Way of Kings, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Hoid's goals aren't necessarily good, at least not for everyone. 

My husband, whom I've only just introduced to Sanderson books, suggested that maybe Hoid was responsible for breaking Adonalsium. (We almost pictured a .  Thor and Loki thing. . . Brotherly sort of thing.)
Thor: "You BROKE IT!!!"
Loki: "I didn't mean to!"
(Ya. .  . It was late. . We were tired)

Or perhaps that he is some sort of important deity trying to repair the worlds in some other way.

I don't think Hoid is EVIL, but I'm also not convinced that he's trying to do something perfectly, honestly good either.
He's there when the good guys need him sure, but until Stormlight, he's not  giving them a TON of help. He gives Kell some info any good informant could give, he delivers things to Elantris (Which as far as I know don't even get there), and tells a story in Warbreaker that is rather long and confusing.

It makes me wonder if HE'S the one who needs to meet with these people for HIS benefit and not the other way around.

[Mckeedee123 he/him]

I think that the 17th shard sees Hoid as a loose cannon, which is why they're hunting him. If he wrote the first letter, and the second letter is a response to that, then what he's doing right now has to do with "pursuing his grudge against Rayse and Bavadin." The 17th shard wants the cosmere to stay like it always has (which means nonintervention in the Rosharian apocalypse). Hoid wants to do something about the situation on Roshar and wherever Bavadin is.

[Divine0Flame he/him]

I do think that Galladon and his pals in the purelake are looking for Hoid. My question is, if hoid is good what are protagonists doing chasing him? Do Galladon and Demoux now work as part of the 17th shard? If they don't then mabey they are looking for Hoid to help him save Roshar. If they do, why? The 17th shard seemes to be a group of "watch, but no touchy" kind of people, and Galladon and Demoux are fairly hands on dudes. I think that the 17th shard is not the only group of worldhoppers, which is supported by others. I did personally refer to Hoid as the rouge of the 17th shard, but I might revise that opinion

[Shaggai]

I don't think that he's evil per se, but I think it's possible that he Shattered Adonalsium, and is trying to put him back together out of guilt. Notice that he said he would let the world burn, with tears in his eyes. Letting it happen is different than doing it yourself.

I agree. I mean, I don't agree that letting something happen is different than doing it yourself (in some abstract moral universe, anyway, because psychologically there is a difference), but he would almost certainly be doing it for some higher cause.

[RawToast225 he/him]

The question isn't "who is Hoid." The question is "<i>WHY</i> is Hoid. Why does Hoid do what he does? The simple answer is that we don't know. No amount of theorizing on this forum will create answers, no matter what some people believe (Shaggai, I'm talking to you). Hoid is a RAFO enigma that we won't know the answers to until we RAFO.

Incidentally, I don't think Hoid wrote either of the Letters. I think it's a third party we have yet to even consider. Chew on that for a bit, but don't spit it out because you don't like the texture.

[Twenty@20 he/him]

Incidentally, I don't think Hoid wrote either of the Letters. I think it's a third party we have yet to even consider. Chew on that for a bit, but don't spit it out because you don't like the texture.

I am sorry to say that Hoid was the recipient of the WoR letter and since that was a reply to the WoK letter, it is safe to say Hoid wrote it. As to who his correspondent is, popular idea around here is that its a dragon from Yolem, perhaps a shardholder who we will get to know in Dragonsteel.

As to why I believe it is Hoid to whom the letter was written, it because his correspondent mentions a few pointers.

I am told that in your current incarnation you’ve taken a name that references what you presume to be one of your virtues.

This is, I suspect, a little like a skunk naming itself for its stench.

Now who do we have in Stormlight Archive who is has taken a name after a virtue. I can think only of Hoid who calls himself Wit because he is witty.

You, however, have never been a force for equilibrium. You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention.

The description sounds suspiciously similar to Hoid who has said to Dalinar that if necessary he would let Roshar burn. Edited November 5, 2014 by Twenty@20

[RawToast225 he/him]

That is the common argument for the second letter. It doesn't have me completely convinced, but I like to question pretty much every theory.

[Rubix he/him]

[Y]ou may have read that Hoid has specific beef with Rayse.

Found here. I can't think of any other place in all of Brandon's works that were published at the time (March 14, 2013) where one could read that Hoid has a specific beef with Rayse, other than in the first letter.

 

You have accused me of perpetuating my grudge against Rayse and Bavadin.

[dants he/him]

Just thought of this, but what if all the Shards were together in Adonalsium, INCLUDING Odium, and Adonalsium chose to follow Odium a bit more than he should've, so Hoid comes in and Shatters him, intending to destroy Odium and then put Adonalsium back together, excluding Odium? That seems Brandon-worthy.

[RawToast225 he/him]

Hoid didn't shatter Adolnasium. The shards were in the universe before humans, even ones as powerful as Hoid.

[Rubix he/him]

Hoid didn't shatter Adolnasium. The shards were in the universe before humans, even ones as powerful as Hoid.

Do you have a source for that?

[RawToast225 he/him]

I misread the wiki page. I got it from the Shard page. Sorry, folks.