Lirin - Bondsmith?

[Nightslug]

I have not seen much speculation on this at all - though I may just be looking in all the wrong places  

In Chapter 43, Lirin says the following; 

"Because I will take responsibility for what I have done! I will work within whatever confines I must in order to protect people! I have taken oaths not to harm!" 

I feel that it is quite similar to the Third Bondsmith ideal, as spoken by Dalinar- and the general tone of what he says seems formal in the same way that the Ideals are often presented. 

I was wondering what your thoughts were on this? 

[yulyulk]

I personally hope that Lirin does not become a radiant—but he would probably like to have access to Regrowth, so he might disagree.

Tbh, when rereading TWoK, I felt that there was some parallel between Lirin (in Kaladin's flashbacks) and Szeth in present day. Lirin refused to waver from his principles even as Roshone was turning the town against him, accepting no payment and still trying to heal everybody...to the detriment of him and his family's wellbeing. In Szeth's interludes, he follows the rules of the Oathstone even though it causes him intense anguish. So I did wonder if Lirin has some Skybreaker tendencies in him. Since Skybreakers and Windrunners are supposed to get along quite poorly, it would also add an extra dimension to Lirin and Kaladin's conflict.

But all that being said, when we look at Lirin's actions as a healer, I also see parallels to the Windrunner oaths. Healing without payment—is that not a way of "protecting those that cannot protect themselves"? Saving Roshone's life—protecting someone you hate. The whole concept of triage, understanding that you can't save every patient is accepting that there will be those that you cannot protect. 

Edited January 12, 2021 by yulyulk

[AquaRegia]

From a narrative point of view (and I seem to be doing that a lot lately - mighty presumptuous of me to try to get into Brando Sando's head LOL) I think it's unlikely that Lirin becomes a Radiant.  I feel like Kaladin has resolved his "father issues" to the point that Lirin is no longer needed as even a minor character... and we've got too many better characters to follow anyway.  Besides, EVERYBODY can't end up as a Radiant.  In the unlikely event it DOES happen, it will be mostly offscreen, as with so many other recent Radiants.

From a Realmatic Theory point of view, though, it's certainly a possibility.  We know that spren are more attracted to members of the same family (coughKholinscough), and to people who spend time together (Bridge Four).  The only orders which have access to Regrowth are Edgedancers and Truthwatchers, so if his destiny is as a magical healer, it would have be one of those two... and from what we know about his personality, I don't see those ideals as a good fit.  We also know there can only be THREE Bondsmiths, and two of those spots are taken, so, unlikely.  There are WoBs, I believe, to the effect of "Bondsmith squires swore Oaths, KNOWING they would get no benefit from them."  

Skybreaker seems to fit best with his strong principles and rigid personality... but I don't see it happening.

[Daycrow]

9 hours ago, Nightslug said:

In Chapter 43, Lirin says the following; 

"Because I will take responsibility for what I have done! I will work within whatever confines I must in order to protect people! I have taken oaths not to harm!" 

I feel that it is quite similar to the Third Bondsmith ideal, as spoken by Dalinar- and the general tone of what he says seems formal in the same way that the Ideals are often presented. 
 

Lirin and the Nightmother...  yikes lol

I think that at the very least it's likely that Brandon wrote it this way on purpose, in order to show parallels between Dalinar and Lirin. Both are father figures to Kaladin, and there are other minor similarities. However, though Dalinar and Lirin both protect others and seek an end to the war, they have different personal morals. I really enjoy the contrast, and I think it also shows that Lirin truly is a good man with good intentions.

[Nightslug]

9 hours ago, Daycrow said:

Lirin and the Nightmother...  yikes lol

I think that at the very least it's likely that Brandon wrote it this way on purpose, in order to show parallels between Dalinar and Lirin. Both are father figures to Kaladin, and there are other minor similarities. However, though Dalinar and Lirin both protect others and seek an end to the war, they have different personal morals. I really enjoy the contrast, and I think it also shows that Lirin truly is a good man with good intentions.

I had never thought about the parallels in them both being father figures for Kaladin- makes sense!  

 

[Honorless]

As others have said, Lirin's oaths have parallels to both Windrunners and Edgedancers. Bondsmiths... he's not really suited to it, imo.

[Nightslug]

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

As others have said, Lirin's oaths have parallels to both Windrunners and Edgedancers. Bondsmiths... he's not really suited to it, imo.

I would agree that he does have more connection to those orders, which is why I find it odd that what he says mirrors the Bondsmith ideal so closely. He is a curious fellow indeed! 

[Shob the Voidbringer]

plot twist: hesina becomes radiant

[Voidspawn]

This is who I think will bond the Nightwatcher.

 

Dawnshard Spoilers:

Spoiler

I don't have any evidence, but I think that Rysn will break her word to Nikli and bond the Nightwatcher.

 

[I Just Shard Myself!]

On 1/13/2021 at 1:26 PM, Honorless said:

As others have said, Lirin's oaths have parallels to both Windrunners and Edgedancers. Bondsmiths... he's not really suited to it, imo.

Is there such a thing as a "Bland-Smith?" I feel like maybe that's where Lirin's oaths will take him.

[Honorless]

18 minutes ago, I Just Shard Myself! said:

Is there such a thing as a "Bland-Smith?" I feel like maybe that's where Lirin's oaths will take him.

Shame he isn't a Radiant, some Stormlight might've helped with that burn

[mathiau]

On 12/01/2021 at 4:32 PM, AquaRegia said:

There are WoBs, I believe, to the effect of "Bondsmith squires swore Oaths, KNOWING they would get no benefit from them." 

From the official KR quizz

Quote

Even though there can only be three full members, there were times that some Bondsmiths did take squires. Beyond that, many of the retinues that protected the Bondsmiths were considered members of the Order–going so far as to swear oaths, even though they didn’t have a spren and never would. Some even called this the most pure form of being a Radiant, because these were oaths sworn not in the name of gaining powers, but simply for the good of the oaths themselves.

On 18/01/2021 at 7:38 AM, Voidspawn said:

This is who I think will bond the Nightwatcher.

 

Dawnshard Spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't have any evidence, but I think that Rysn will break her word to Nikli and bond the Nightwatcher.

 

My bet would be more on the little girl who's already powered by lifelight. Brandon confirmed bounding multiple sprens was possible but they didn't like that, a cultivationspren agreeing to share someone with the Nightwatcher doesn't seems impossible.