Oduim lying to fused

[Shob the Voidbringer]

in RoW, when questioned, Raboniel states that adhesion is not a true surge, because it is only of Honor, but other surges are present through the Cosmere, but earlier in the book it mentions that bondsmiths brought the humans to Roshar, so that means that it is not only of Honor, so, has Odium been lying to the fused, or something?

you can discuss, critique, or support this theory. Note: if you have firm evidence against this, or don't like the theory, don't just shut it down, kind of ease it down, because that gets me feelin' sad

[Theoryspren]

It’s a good idea but I always thought that Odium gave them the power that destroyed Ashyn but that Honor and Cultivation took pity on them and helped them get to Roshar. Afterword Odium influences some of the humans to start a war and convinced the singers to fight back using his powers by inviting void spren and rejecting Honor/Cultivation spren. I thought that that was the betrayal and so they decided to go bond humans. This is what I always assumed happened to cause the destruction of Ashyn, the journey to Roshar, and the start of the first desolation.

[Shob the Voidbringer]

Me: sits quietly while trying to think of evidence to counter this.

i did consider that

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Rayse may have straight up lied to the Fused,  or he could be lying by omission and letting them come to their own conclusions.  I don't think Odium can bestow that particular surge, or that he had to leave one out (he's 9 centric) and Adhesion is the hardest to grant.  We still have puzzle pieces to find.

[mathiau he/him]

Sha-Anat can corrupt windsprens (who have proven their ability to use adhesion) so I think there is a voidbinding equivalent to adhesion, and that Rodium may not have realized it.

It's also possible Odium can't give the surge of adhesion but could give the void of adhesion but did not for the same reason he only gave surges and never voids to the fused (and if you want a proof they're surgebinding and not voidbinding, Masked Ones, Lightweavers and normal Truthwatchers all have the same version of illumination)

 

 

[Shob the Voidbringer]

maybe he denounced it in some way that makes him incapable of providing the surge of adhesion

[Raven Wilder]

It now occurs to me to wonder how well Odium is capable of lying, given his inability to break promises without dire consequences. Can he lie all he wants so long as he never specifically promises to tell the truth, or is there a point at which lying to someone about what you're offering them becomes a breach of an implicit oath? And can Odium and other spren still make a contract with someone if, beforehand, they've given the other party false information related to the contract?

[Tazren he/him]

On 25/12/2020 at 2:02 AM, Raven Wilder said:

It now occurs to me to wonder how well Odium is capable of lying, given his inability to break promises without dire consequences. Can he lie all he wants so long as he never specifically promises to tell the truth, or is there a point at which lying to someone about what you're offering them becomes a breach of an implicit oath? And can Odium and other spren still make a contract with someone if, beforehand, they've given the other party false information related to the contract?

I think it's just directly tied to promises or oaths. There's probably something inherently magical about making oaths a certain way, and that's what binds him. But if he just randomly lies to someone, there's no oaths or promises involved. Maybe a real Oath has something to do with a Connection between the parties involved, and going back on that just backfires dramatically. Maybe more so the greater your power?

[mathiau he/him]

3 hours ago, Tazren said:

I think it's just directly tied to promises or oaths. There's probably something inherently magical about making oaths a certain way, and that's what binds him. But if he just randomly lies to someone, there's no oaths or promises involved. Maybe a real Oath has something to do with a Connection between the parties involved, and going back on that just backfires dramatically. Maybe more so the greater your power?

Hmmm...

[Pure_hypothesis] Oaths are Honour's job, maybe the 15* had Honour create a binding that would nearly kill them if they broke their promise, but technically (and probably accidentality) still allowed them to lie? Maybe Adonalsium making false promises had something to do with why he was shattered in the first place, or at least why Tanavast helped?

 

*Kriss said 16 persons shattered Adonalsium, Hoid was one of them so 15 god-slaying shard, my best guess for the 16th is Ambition because "Uli-da was always going to be a problem" and I think it'd suit Hoid, with how much of a munchkin he's being.

[/Pure_hypothesis]

Edited December 26, 2020 by mathiau