Odium's champion

[Urtan]

I was thinking about just who is going to be Odium's champion for the duel and couldn't find anyone, who would be a match for Dalinar. Also, the person either will have to be strongly connected to Odium, or it will be someone Dalinar will be unable to kill.

The first and easiest answer is El. We have read some of his thoughts, and we have seen a deranged Fused being actually scared of him. But I can't shake a feeling that this would be a cheap solution without any emotional weight. Dalinar wouldn't struggle against some dangerous enemy. We have seen him winning fight after fight against those. I think this is a red herring, or possibly an opponent for someone like Kaladin to defeat in the days leading towards the duel.

The second, less obvious choice is Adolin. Hear me out. He is someone willing to do just about anything to protect his closest. He is also frustrated by his father and feels inadequate in the new age of Radiance. He seems the most vulnerable to the promises of Odium of the main cast. Had something happen to Shallan, Renarin or Maya for that matter, who knows what path he might take. We have yet to see him lose something so important. He did kill the person who ALMOST managed to kill his father in cold revenge. Also think about the emotional impact on readers.Renarin dies (perhaps by the hands of El), Maya is destroyed and Adolin snaps the day before the duel? That would be stuff worthy of final Sanderlaneche for a series (first half at least). 

This is something Dalinar would be unable to face. If he had to kill his own son I think he would rather surrender. This would also raise the stakes of the duel and have it meaningful emotional impact, since we know (and adore) Adolin since book one. 

I really hope I'm wrong, but there is just no other person so perfect for it. New Odium seems like a person (shard?) willing to use the closest people of his adversaries against them and being manipulative enough to be able to actually achieve it.

And what do you think? Who do you think is going to be the chosen One?

 

 

[Theoryspren]

I could see TOdium attempting to switch Adolin or any other number of people like Rayse tried Dalinar and Kaladin but to be truthful I sincerely doubt Adolin would change. I am more likely to believe just about any other person. Which could indicate it will be him but I think he would need to lose at least two of the three characters you mentioned above for him to take that direction.

[BloomAgeOne]

4 hours ago, Urtan said:

I was thinking about just who is going to be Odium's champion for the duel and couldn't find anyone, who would be a match for Dalinar. Also, the person either will have to be strongly connected to Odium, or it will be someone Dalinar will be unable to kill.

I don't necessarily think that this is going to happen, but remember that the Skybreakers' allegiance is currently with Odium, so Nale would be a candidate, right?

[jamesbondsmith He/him]

Purely in terms of the 'take my pain' thing, my guess would be Kaladin or Shallan.

Much of Kaladin's drama is how much losing people hurts him, but he seems to have largely come to terms with it in ROW. Still, the fact that Oaths don't remove the personal traumas and hangups they represent means he may still feel the pain.

Shallan's entire arc is based on suppressing painful memories, and once she swears them as truths she can't ignore them anymore. I can definitely see her taking a road that alleviates her guilt for her actions (and who knows what painful truths she swore to Testament that she may or may not remember).

Both characters work for the 'someone Dalinar can't bring himself to kill' angle people are predicting. His loyal soldier and bodyguard who is almost a surrogate son and his daughter in law would certainly make him pause.

Edit: apparently there was an Unmade influencing the Davar household, much as Nergaoul via the Thrill influenced Dalinar. Possibly more evidence for Shallan.

To be fair, I feel much of the info we base our speculation on would be contingent on Rayse still being the Vessel, so maybe TOdium would choose someone else.

Edited December 26, 2020 by jamesbondsmith

[Rushu42 she/her]

I actually had the same as idea as the OP, myself. Adolin as champion seems like exactly the sort of heartbreaking move that Brandon would pull. Obviously, Adolin is a good guy, but there've been a few seeds planted (killing Sadeas, jealously of Radiants, etc.) that a clever Odium could exploit. I don't see him willingly joining Odium, but he could be tricked into doing so. And what a decision that would be for Dalinar. T already knows that he has trouble with utilitarian ethics, after all. 

Do I think it's inevitable? No. Do I think it's possible? Absolutely.

[Odin1981]

I agree with Adolin being pushed down that path. The drama it would cause would make sense. Because could a parent actually kill their own child? Now there is a work around for that in that honor's champion would be someone else doing the deed, but Dalinar having to pick the end of his own son by picking his opponent would not be a easy task. But also would Shallan want to contend with her husband? Renarion his older brother? Kaladin one of his few friends? From a drama aspect it makes sense. It would truly be a very hard thing to do.

I've just finished ROW and personally the impression I get of El just a named fused shows what I get for writing this before finishing the last 20-30 pages lol. I obviously cannot prove this but it is just a feeling I get based on limited sentences at the start of chapters.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Odin1981

[Ashbringer he/him]

When it finally sunk in that Taravangain was now Odium, I was half wondering if he’d just force his champion to surrender while he wasn’t bent by Odium’s Intent.

I now realize that is both narratively quite boring and also putting far too much faith in Taravangian...

I think that Kaladin’s mostly out of the picture, because it seemed like Moash was trying to turn him into a Champion and that went about as bad as it could. Shallan’s also faced what seems like the last of her demons... but that’s what I thought in the last two books, so who knows.

As for my theories... Moash is possible, but now he’s blind. Adolin is also possible if TOdium goes full Odium mode, but that would spell doom for Maya’s arc... then again, Rayse says hi to how much we know about arcs. Nale has the power, but none of the real gut-punching that another Champion would have. Szeth... Szeth unleashed would be a terrifying force but it would be against his Oath, plus Nightblood would mess with Dalinar’s oath to join the Fused.

 

If I had to make a solid guess... I would likely say Ishar. Perhaps not knowingly, but a Battle of the Bondsmiths would be intriguing indeed.

I do feel like Taravangian won’t let this challenge define him. It will likely not be the sole climax of Book Five.

[Odin1981]

33 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

When it finally sunk in that Taravangain was now Odium, I was half wondering if he’d just force his champion to surrender while he wasn’t bent by Odium’s Intent.

I now realize that is both narratively quite boring and also putting far too much faith in Taravangian...

I think that Kaladin’s mostly out of the picture, because it seemed like Moash was trying to turn him into a Champion and that went about as bad as it could. Shallan’s also faced what seems like the last of her demons... but that’s what I thought in the last two books, so who knows.

As for my theories... Moash is possible, but now he’s blind. Adolin is also possible if TOdium goes full Odium mode, but that would spell doom for Maya’s arc... then again, Rayse says hi to how much we know about arcs. Nale has the power, but none of the real gut-punching that another Champion would have. Szeth... Szeth unleashed would be a terrifying force but it would be against his Oath, plus Nightblood would mess with Dalinar’s oath to join the Fused.

 

If I had to make a solid guess... I would likely say Ishar. Perhaps not knowingly, but a Battle of the Bondsmiths would be intriguing indeed.

I do feel like Taravangian won’t let this challenge define him. It will likely not be the sole climax of Book Five.

I'm interested in how NB will feel after ingesting that amount of Odium and if by tearing a part out of him how that might change Odium. Probably a story for another thread however.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

I dont see any main character as Odiums champion.

Adolin? - He completed his mision, healed his wife mostly and also acomplished something impossible (makes Deadeye talk), all by being just himself. All his insecurities are gone by now. Besides, he would never stand against his father.

Kaladin? - Take up pain? What pain? He deals with it and accepts it. It will be against his 4th Oath.

Shallan? - She also no longer hide from herself. Maybe she has some lies, but with Adolin she can deal with them.

So noone from them will be Odiums champion. Not in 10 days after the great victory against him. I can see Odium giving up Contest, because winning will not buy him freedom, and loosing just takes some land from him and he still has influence on other lands, even on Shins, so he can continue war without being involved by person, especialy if some Singers decide to fight anyway.

[Wolfbeckett]

I think Adolin is out by default.  Right?  He's still at Lasting Integrity and it took them weeks to get there.  It will take them weeks to get back and the duel is in 10 days.  I think whatever role Shallan and Adolin have in book 5 is in the Cognitive Realm unless they somehow get teleported back.