stormlore Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 I have this theory rolling around in my head about Kaladin taking up the mantle of Jezrien, in a new oathpact Dalinar will forge. I found this epigraph people normally associate with Daliner: Chapter 53: "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!" But I think it could refer to Kaladin, a king is a title, a crown is a mantle, and the spear is an interesting relationship considering heralds used swords, but some people have speculated about dawnshard and such, I'm not sure how I feel about that. My question to the community is this: do you have any more evidence that could lead to Kaladin becoming a king? I think Dalinar will eventually have to leave such positions due to his mission of unity, so I feel like it doesn't really fit him. Kaladin was narratively taken off the frontline of the fight, and I think for a bigger reason. I think he might find out some things in Shinovar alongside Szeth.
Clovermite Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, stormlore said: I have this theory rolling around in my head about Kaladin taking up the mantle of Jezrien, in a new oathpact Dalinar will forge. I found this epigraph people normally associate with Daliner: Chapter 53: "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!" But I think it could refer to Kaladin, a king is a title, a crown is a mantle, and the spear is an interesting relationship considering heralds used swords, but some people have speculated about dawnshard and such, I'm not sure how I feel about that. My question to the community is this: do you have any more evidence that could lead to Kaladin becoming a king? I think Dalinar will eventually have to leave such positions due to his mission of unity, so I feel like it doesn't really fit him. Kaladin was narratively taken off the frontline of the fight, and I think for a bigger reason. I think he might find out some things in Shinovar alongside Szeth. I don't see Kaladin becoming a king. I don't think he would be very good at it. I could definitely see him taking up a place in the oathpact though, so that's an interesting theory. Is an oathpact really necessary at this point though? Odium has agreed to cease the war, and agreed not to leave the Rosharan system. Aren't those the two things that the Oathpact were created to enforce? I know Dalinar is pursuing it anyway, I'm just confused as to what it will achieve at this point, that his agreement with Odium hasn't already done.
Ramona Tehradin she/her Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, stormlore said: I have this theory rolling around in my head about Kaladin taking up the mantle of Jezrien, in a new oathpact Dalinar will forge. I found this epigraph people normally associate with Daliner: Chapter 53: "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!" But I think it could refer to Kaladin, a king is a title, a crown is a mantle, and the spear is an interesting relationship considering heralds used swords, but some people have speculated about dawnshard and such, I'm not sure how I feel about that. My question to the community is this: do you have any more evidence that could lead to Kaladin becoming a king? I think Dalinar will eventually have to leave such positions due to his mission of unity, so I feel like it doesn't really fit him. Kaladin was narratively taken off the frontline of the fight, and I think for a bigger reason. I think he might find out some things in Shinovar alongside Szeth. I can see it happening. Agreed. Just because he isn't good at Kingly duties doesn't mean he can't be. None of the Radiants were ever Radiants since birth. None of Radiants were good people from beginning. Dalinar was a ravaging-Thrill laden murderer, Venli was a self-absorbed betrayer, Navani was a hypocrite...they all became Radiants took mantle of their responsibilities. Honestly, I think Kaladin will be better leader that anyone at instance. He's led countless people not only to freedom but also out of darkness. People follow him, they rever him. He inspires them to be better of themselves. He is intelligent, he's got presence of mind and has been taking tactical training as well. He never takes mindless decisions. He hesitates, second guesses and then choses which is an admirable trait for a king because a King is not a soldier fighting in battle. A king is the fighter who must think about his men in a battle. And no one thinks better than Kaladin. It couldn't be a coincidence that of all Heralds around, Jezrien was the one who died. Sending Kaladin to suffer in Braize would be nothing but a disappointing end for his arc after everything he's been through. Just because a character has suffered doesn't mean you will enjoy seeing him suffering till end as many people in thread are speculating. There needs to be light again in morning. There needs to be warmth. Stop thinking the worse and start thinking what's best for expectations. Because if we then fall, at least we will know that we thought better than suffering.
stormlore Posted December 16, 2020 Author Posted December 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ramona Tehradin said: I can see it happening. Agreed. Just because he isn't good at Kingly duties doesn't mean he can't be. None of the Radiants were ever Radiants since birth. None of Radiants were good people from beginning. Dalinar was a ravaging-Thrill laden murderer, Venli was a self-absorbed betrayer, Navani was a hypocrite...they all became Radiants took mantle of their responsibilities. Honestly, I think Kaladin will be better leader that anyone at instance. He's led countless people not only to freedom but also out of darkness. People follow him, they rever him. He inspires them to be better of themselves. He is intelligent, he's got presence of mind and has been taking tactical training as well. He never takes mindless decisions. He hesitates, second guesses and then choses which is an admirable trait for a king because a King is not a soldier fighting in battle. A king is the fighter who must think about his men in a battle. And no one thinks better than Kaladin. It couldn't be a coincidence that of all Heralds around, Jezrien was the one who died. Sending Kaladin to suffer in Braize would be nothing but a disappointing end for his arc after everything he's been through. Just because a character has suffered doesn't mean you will enjoy seeing him suffering till end as many people in thread are speculating. There needs to be light again in morning. There needs to be warmth. Stop thinking the worse and start thinking what's best for expectations. Because if we then fall, at least we will know that we thought better than suffering. I think the nature of the oathpact could conceivably change.
Honorless he/him Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, stormlore said: Chapter 53: "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!" The spear is something Kaladin struggles with (well, not literally, he totally slays with a spear, but I meant metaphorically), picking up a spear again was such an important part of Kaladin's journey in this book. As for the tower and crown... That's the crest of House Kholin...
Clovermite Posted December 16, 2020 Posted December 16, 2020 46 minutes ago, Ramona Tehradin said: Honestly, I think Kaladin will be better leader that anyone at instance. He's led countless people not only to freedom but also out of darkness. People follow him, they rever him. He inspires them to be better of themselves. He is intelligent, he's got presence of mind and has been taking tactical training as well. He never takes mindless decisions. He hesitates, second guesses and then choses which is an admirable trait for a king because a King is not a soldier fighting in battle. A king is the fighter who must think about his men in a battle. And no one thinks better than Kaladin. Kaladin isn't taking the path of a king - he's not getting engaged in politics, he's on the ground making things happen. He does this both as a healer and a fighter. Kaladin thrives most when he's actively doing things, surrounded by people. We've seen that when he's isolated by status, performing the background adminstrative duties that a King would do most of the time, he tends to whither. Kinghood would only further isolate Kaladin, and it would restrict him in ways that he would hate. As King, he would not be allowed to risk his life in the way that he tends to prefer, so he can protect people. He posses much more freedom as a champion, or high level adviser who then takes direct action. On top of that, royalty is very much about bloodline. Kaladin doesn't possess royal blood. As much he's now become a symbol of hope, I see many objecting to elevating him to King status. Beyond that, Jasnah is already serving as an excellent ruler. There is no need to push Kaladin into that role 54 minutes ago, Ramona Tehradin said: Sending Kaladin to suffer in Braize would be nothing but a disappointing end for his arc after everything he's been through. Just because a character has suffered doesn't mean you will enjoy seeing him suffering till end as many people in thread are speculating. There needs to be light again in morning. There needs to be warmth. Stop thinking the worse and start thinking what's best for expectations. Because if we then fall, at least we will know that we thought better than suffering. Book 5 isn't the end of the Stormlight Archive, it's only the halfway point. If Dalinar is going to reforge the Oathpact, who out there would be more willing to sacrifice themself to protect everyone on Roshar than Kaladin? I would agree though, based on what we saw of him in Braize so far, that's he's probably been broken enough already that he would struggle to stay there for too long. As far as the need for "light again in the morning," that would come later in the series, perhaps even as earlier as book 6 or 7 where they defeat Taravagian and someone else steps in as "hero of ages" to unite Odium with another shard in order to temper the unbridled rage (perhaps this would be Dalinar uniting Odium and Honor to become War). At that point, the Oathpact could be dissolved, and Kaladin would be free to either pass on into the spiritual realm, or live out the rest of his life in peace. The light seems brighter after an eclipse than it does passing from dawn to noon. With the Urithiru becoming fully operational and fused joining Honor's side, the story is at a "dawn" stage - the humans have experienced many victories. At the same time, there is a lot of foreshadowing that there will be some serious defeats coming up in the next book. Nobody is expecting TaravOdium, and I don't see them winning against him in their first major conflict with him...not with five more books to go.
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