Ishar Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 Brief disclaimer: It has been some time since I posted theories on here (probably since OB came out more or less), and my Cosmere knowledge is a bit rusty, and probably outdated. If I get anything wrong, please let me know. I also do not currently have a copy of RoW on me, so I won't be quoting directly (feel free to give quotes, and I may edit some in later). I have also not read Dawnshard, so no spoilers for that please. Anyway, on to the theory: Essentially my theory is that Adolin and Maya have formed/are forming a sort of reverse Nahel bond. If my understanding of Nahel Bonds is correct (and honestly most investiture in the cosmere), they are formed when spren attach themselves to a radiant's spiritweb, utilizing cracks in the web to attach more thoroughly. My theory is that when the Recreance occurred Spren and Radiant spirit webs were forcefully separated (it is confirmed that the Spren were damaged in the Spirit realm, but to my knowledge, not how). I believe that a piece of the Spren's spiritweb remained attached to the original Radiant's spiritweb. This sort of fits in with the description of their eyes, as in the eyes are just kinda absent. Essentially, I am saying that I think that piece of the spren remains trapped in the original Radiant's web (Which is why a radiant could revive their own dead spren after killing it). This is why I think Maya and Adolin are forming a sort of reverse Nahel bond. Instead of the spren filling in the cracks in the Radiant's web, Adolin is filling in the cracks in Maya's spirit web. I think this is also why it might be that in RoW, Maya begins swearing the first oath, not Adolin. 10
Frustration Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 It wouldn't surprise me if Adolin had a "bigger" soul, and was attaching Maya with his extra. 1
Ishar Posted December 14, 2020 Author Posted December 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said: It wouldn't surprise me if Adolin had a "bigger" soul, and was attaching Maya with his extra. I'm not sure "bigger" quite, but definitely more intact than most Radiants. I guess though that this would make it easier for people with Breath(s) to form this kind of bond. 2
Binder Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Ishar said: I'm not sure "bigger" quite, but definitely more intact than most Radiants. I guess though that this would make it easier for people with Breath(s) to form this kind of bond. Investiture works by utilising cracks in the soul and putting itself into the cracks in the soul. This can be physical or emotional, like Kaladin's depression or Scadrial's snapping people by beating them (pre-Catacendre [sp?]). In Rhythm of War, he gives Maya his strength, as opposed to, say, Syl's relationship with Kaladin wherein she covers his cracks in the soul, here Adolin helps Maya recover herself. Adolin hasn't been through a large amount of trauma, and therefore his soul isn't really broken as Kaladin's is. 1
Roocifer Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Ishar said: This is why I think Maya and Adolin are forming a sort of reverse Nahel bond. Instead of the spren filling in the cracks in the Radiant's web, Adolin is filling in the cracks in Maya's spirit web. I think this is also why it might be that in RoW, Maya begins swearing the first oath, not Adolin. I like this theory. 1
gremlin303 Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 Wow I love this. It seems so in character for Adolin as well. I wonder what abilities would come from this. The usual radiant ones? Or something else? 2
Lightdancer Posted December 15, 2020 Posted December 15, 2020 I had a very similar theory I thought of as "Radiant Maya". I'd like to see something like this. 1
Lightwing8888 Posted December 15, 2020 Posted December 15, 2020 I love this theory! I’ve thought that they would bond since OB, but I like the theory that Maya is taking the traditionally human role. It also perhaps allows precedent for other humans to do the same. I personally think Lirin will follow in Adolin’s footsteps, if this bond continues the way @Ishar said above.
Seloun Posted December 15, 2020 Posted December 15, 2020 I wrote a couple of posts about this possibility: More specific to Maya/Adolin Somewhat more general version of the theory The basic gist is that I don't think Maya and Adolin yet have a reversed bond; I think Renarin does, and that'll be the key to reviving the deadeyes.
Ishar Posted December 15, 2020 Author Posted December 15, 2020 5 hours ago, Seloun said: I wrote a couple of posts about this possibility: More specific to Maya/Adolin Somewhat more general version of the theory The basic gist is that I don't think Maya and Adolin yet have a reversed bond; I think Renarin does, and that'll be the key to reviving the deadeyes. My issue with the Renarin part of this is that Renarin definitely had cracks in his spiritweb, so there is no reason to assume that it would work as a reverse bond so to speak. In fact, Renarin being cracked seems to me to at least suggest that it does function as regular Nahel bond as opposed to a reverse one (although obviously there are other oddities).
LuckyJim Posted December 15, 2020 Posted December 15, 2020 (edited) I don't think there can be a "reverse" Nahel bond, I think the nature of that bond is always two ways, with both parties helping each other. Obviously, the nature of the bond is different, since Maya is a deadeye at this point. I think Adolin is providing more than a typical Radiant because of this, and that seems to be what's happening when he sends her his strength to allow her to speak, but I don't think the roles can really be reversed. One is a being of sentient Investiture and the other is a physical being, I don't think their roles in a Nahel bond can be interchanged. Also, I'm pretty sure Adolin does have a cracked soul. I mean, by Rhythm of War he's found out that his dad killed his mom, and he doesn't really know how to deal with that. But more to the point, I'm pretty sure everyone has a cracked soul. That seems to be the implication from one of Phendorana's quotes. "Life breaks us Teft. Then we fill in the cracks with something stronger" (or something like that, I don't have the book on hand). I really don't think it takes much for a spren to be able to bond a human. The spren we see don't really seem all that concerned with whether or not their Radiants have gone through enough trauma, but whether or not they can uphold the oaths. A lot of the time they bond purely out of convenience. It seems likely that they won't be able to really form a bond until after she's healed, (possibly by restoring Ba-Ado-Mishram) at which point they'd be able to just form a normal bond. Edited December 15, 2020 by LuckyJim 1
Honorless he/him Posted December 15, 2020 Posted December 15, 2020 That's how I read it too and I'd really love it if Maya summoned Adolin as a Blade
Binder Posted December 15, 2020 Posted December 15, 2020 Yeah I'm not sure if the whole reverse Nahel Bond makes much sense. I mean, when Syl left Shadesmar she was like a windspreb and couldn't remember anything. Kaladin strengthened her and she in turn strengthened him. The difference here is Maya is damaged in Shadesmar not the physical realm. So how exactly would it work? I believe it has previously been said Maya was an edgedancer spren, would she be revived to that? Because prior to Ba-Ado-Mishram's imprisonment, dead eyes had never been seen before. Perhaps their identity was stolen and Maya bonding with Adolin is forming a deeper Connection and therefore remembering? I could be wrong in my linking of ideas here pls don't judge
signspace13 he/him Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) On 15/12/2020 at 3:15 AM, Ishar said: I believe that a piece of the Spren's spiritweb remained attached to the original Radiant's spiritweb. This sort of fits in with the description of their eyes, as in the eyes are just kinda absent. Essentially, I am saying that I think that piece of the spren remains trapped in the original Radiant's web (Which is why a radiant could revive their own dead spren after killing it). This is the most interesting part of your theory to me, as I think we have some in world evidence. As a modern radiant progresses in their bond, their eyes change colour to match that of their order. So long as they don't have Lighteyes already. This could be a sign of their spiritweb meshing with their Spren's. Both of these are important here. As I think your drawn line between the Spren being deadeyed, while the radiants remained Lighteyed is important. If the Spren lost part of their spiritweb when they broke the bond, and that part remained in the Radiant, then that might be to origin of the rather odd and not entirely genetic trait of Lighteyes on Roshar, the Spren gave up their eyes in the breaking of the bond. The part of the Spren that remained in the radiant being passed down to their descendants. I wonder if from your hypothesis, that because Adolin is forming the bond backwards, he will lose that little extra bit of Spren soul he has from being Lighteyed, and use it to fix Maya. Making him darkeyed, but her whole. Edited December 17, 2020 by signspace13 5
Ishar Posted December 17, 2020 Author Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) I didn't even think about lighteyes and their relationship with Radiants, but this makes a lot of sense. Edited December 17, 2020 by Ishar 1
Serack he/him Posted December 17, 2020 Posted December 17, 2020 I wonder if Adolin communing with her in the Cognitive Realm is facilitating this progression
Ishar Posted December 17, 2020 Author Posted December 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Serack said: I wonder if Adolin communing with her in the Cognitive Realm is facilitating this progression I doubt that the actual communing would be facilitating the progression, but Adolin's changing views of Maya (aided by communing) probably are.
Serack he/him Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Ishar said: I doubt that the actual communing would be facilitating the progression, but Adolin's changing views of Maya (aided by communing) probably are. Hmmmm a subtle distinction. I was wondering if the properties of the Cognitive realm amplified their interaction's effects on their "bond." However, the properties that matter are that the nature of their interactions changed because he was able to perceive and interact differently in that realm. I hope I'm communicating that well. The idea isn't terribly distinct.
Binder Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 I had a new idea; what if when Maya is revived she acts as an honorblade of sorts? She bestows power after being revived? I could be way off base here but it makes sense in my brain.
GroundPetrel Posted December 18, 2020 Posted December 18, 2020 I think it would be interesting if Adolin--the one who's normally supportive when others break--gives too much of himself, as it were, and in healing Maya becomes in need of healing himself, so they form a bond that's weird and awkward and soft and gentle and build around mutual support. I'm thinking of that beautiful pic on the Coppermind of Plate-armored Adolin hugging deadeyed Maya, and my thought process is, what happens when Adolin gets the rust kicked out of him trying to shield Maya? Especially since Adolin is the normal healthy supportive one so he's the one who if he cracks will ironically be most likely to be overlooked (kinda like the old "sibling of the special needs kid" set of issues, where the special-needs kid has so many issues that dominate attention that the sibling's issues get overlooked--my brother and I are still dealing with some issues left over from him being the sibling and me being the special needs kid when we were younger). (also Adolin literally has a special-needs brother who he grew up taking care of, I think that he's a lot more cracked inside than he lets on)
Master Silver Posted December 19, 2020 Posted December 19, 2020 I'm curious if Adolin's interactions with Maya in RoW have changed or cemented any change in her compared to a regular dead-eye spren. In Oathbringer, Adolin summoned her in 7 heart beats, and she briefly was able to speak into his mind. She is even more self-aware and their bond is stronger after RoW. Does that mean that Adolin can now draw in trace amounts of stormlight? How far can this bond go without him swearing ideals. What if Maya is speaking the ideals in reverse order, that would be interesting. I guess we have a few years to speculate. And another 20 before the series is done.
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