+Oltux72 he/him Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 We have assumed that the Stormfather started sending Gavilar visions because he sensed Taln being near the breaking point. That seems an awfully convinient coincidence that Alethkar happened to be united for the first in generations just as Taln broke. Do we have cause and effect correct? Did Taln know of the Stormfather's mission? Is it possible that Gavilar inadvertedly started the Desolation uniting Alethkar?
Karger he/him Posted December 12, 2020 Posted December 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: We have assumed that the Stormfather started sending Gavilar visions because he sensed Taln being near the breaking point. I did not receive that impression. 29 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: That seems an awfully convinient coincidence that Alethkar happened to be united for the first in generations just as Taln broke Convenient for whom? Honestly team Odium benefited almost as much as team Honor. 29 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Do we have cause and effect correct? Correlation is not causation. 30 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Did Taln know of the Stormfather's mission? How? He was stuck on Braize being tortured when Honor died. 30 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Is it possible that Gavilar inadvertedly started the Desolation uniting Alethkar? I mean technically he did. The vengence pact would never have formed but I don't think you are looking in the right direction.
+Oltux72 he/him Posted December 12, 2020 Author Posted December 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Karger said: I did not receive that impression. If these messages were not conditional, how to explain the coincidence of finding not one but two candidates only a few years before Taln broke but no candidates before that who refounded the Knights Radiant? 9 minutes ago, Karger said: Convenient for whom? Honestly team Odium benefited almost as much as team Honor. Had Urithiru not been rediscovered, the Knights Radiant refounded and the Oathgates reactivated, Odium would have won. 9 minutes ago, Karger said: Correlation is not causation. True. But why did multiple other orders start rebonding a few years before Taln broke? 9 minutes ago, Karger said: How? He was stuck on Braize being tortured when Honor died. By sending him a message the same way he sends them lots of Stormlight? Or via the oathpact? Or a messenger? They Unmade are on Roshar all the time, but Honor cannot get a simple message to Braize? 9 minutes ago, Karger said: I mean technically he did. The vengence pact would never have formed but I don't think you are looking in the right direction. Then why did the restart of Spren bonding and Taln breaking occur nearly simultaneously?
Karger he/him Posted December 13, 2020 Posted December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Oltux72 said: If these messages were not conditional, how to explain the coincidence of finding not one but two candidates only a few years before Taln broke but no candidates before that who refounded the Knights Radiant? In the coarse of probability it is probable that many improbable things shall happen. For one thing Taln braking did not happen on anything resembling an exact schedule. For another Honor commanded the Stormfather to give the visions before his death around two thousand years before Dalinar and Gavilar. Given that at the time no one could accurately predict how much time they had and Honor's poor future sight abilities I think it much more likely that Honor's command was something like "If Odium takes action you must give these visions to a potential bondsmith." 1 hour ago, Oltux72 said: Had Urithiru not been rediscovered, the Knights Radiant refounded and the Oathgates reactivated, Odium would have won. Define winning. Humans might have been kicked back to the bronze age but that happened during other desolations. Had Gavilar not been experimenting he would not have been assassinated and the parshendi might not have created the everstorm limiting fused to the old method of returning and granting them only a small group of unwlling host bodies. 1 hour ago, Oltux72 said: True. But why did multiple other orders start rebonding a few years before Taln broke? I believe that the everstorm appeared in shadesmar indicating that the fused would return soon. 1 hour ago, Oltux72 said: By sending him a message the same way he sends them lots of Stormlight? Or via the oathpact? Or a messenger? They Unmade are on Roshar all the time, but Honor cannot get a simple message to Braize? Odium does not seem to have had much(or any) control over the unmade before the everstorm. I would also think that the Heralds would be much better off if they had Honor helping them through the torture. 1 hour ago, Oltux72 said: Then why did the restart of Spren bonding and Taln breaking occur nearly simultaneously? The spren noticed some of Odium's earlier actions.
Weltall Posted December 14, 2020 Posted December 14, 2020 The Diagram anticipated the events several years before they happened, and while Taravangian clearly had help seeing these things, the points he raises make it clear that there were signs obvious to the spren that a Desolation was on the horizon. Quote Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia You don't need any kind of Fortune-manipulation to explain things. Taln was beginning to break, Odium was getting ready to act once he did and the spren noticed the signs and some of them decided it was time to start bonding humans again.
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