VirtuousTraveller Posted November 24, 2020 Posted November 24, 2020 So Ishar is trying to pull spren from the Cognitive Realm into the Physical Realm. At first this seemed really random to me, like some kind of deranged concentration camp-style experimentation (which it definitely is), but it seems less random the more I think about it. (I will apologize in advance if this has already been mentioned elsewhere) Ishar (and Thaidakar) both seem very interested in escaping their limitations inherent in being cognitive shadows. I could be misremembering the lore (or maybe it hasn't been fleshed out yet - the pun in this statement is coming), but do the Heralds simply rematerialize new bodies each time they return from Braize? We know they don't possess a physical host like the Fused do, but there seems to be some strange disconnect (or unique quality) that allows them as cognitive shadows to ALSO be physically present in the Physical Realm. Then again, Braize is ALSO in the Physical Realm, so despite being Cognitive Shadows, they also fully exist in the Physical Realm. They are so immensely invested that they are no longer human, and are more akin to spren. This is why I suspect Ishar is experimenting on spren. Somehow the Heralds can practically be spren, but exist in the Physical Realm, with physical bodies, but spren do not seem to make this transition into physical bodies well (as evidenced by the contents of the tent). If this transition is causing physical decay for spren coming into the Physical Realm, I suspect a similar transition is what is causing cognitive decay for the Heralds existing as they do. 2
Nymeros Posted November 25, 2020 Posted November 25, 2020 I really don't understand what you're saying.
Eris she/her Posted November 25, 2020 Posted November 25, 2020 I am trying to understand. Do you mean is Ishar manages to make a spren appear in the physical realm with a physical body, the heralds can use this knowledge to become their physical forms to curve mental deterioration? Kind of like using spren as a testing ground to see if it works the other way or something like that? 1
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 25, 2020 Posted November 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Eris said: I am trying to understand. Do you mean is Ishar manages to make a spren appear in the physical realm with a physical body, the heralds can use this knowledge to become their physical forms to curve mental deterioration? Kind of like using spren as a testing ground to see if it works the other way or something like that? I think this is pretty much what OP is saying, yes. It does make sense to me. Cognitive transitions seems to be messy. Spren do it with their minds intact, but their bodies can't manifest. Heralds can manifest bodies, but their minds are wierd. So Ishar is trying to see if you can manifest with both body and mind intact, presumably as a twisted way of helping the other Heralds, given that he doesn't consider himself insane (unlike for example Nale, who knows that his mind is crazy). 1
VirtuousTraveller Posted November 25, 2020 Author Posted November 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: So Ishar is trying to see if you can manifest with both body and mind intact, presumably as a twisted way of helping the other Heralds, given that he doesn't consider himself insane (unlike for example Nale, who knows that his mind is crazy). Exactly! The Heralds exist in the Physical Realm on Braize with the rest of the Fused and voidspren until a Desolation begins. Then, somehow they are transported to Roshar, where they also exist in the Physical Realm until they are killed... ...at which point they return to Braize, and exist again in the Physical Realm. This “back and forth” process clearly takes a toll on mental stability, as seen in both the Heralds and the Fused, though do we know if the instability is more a result of them NOT continuing the cycle of back and forth like the Oathpact originally intended, or if the process caused it in the first place over thousands of years of experiencing it. We’ve seen glimpses of how the Fused and voidspren somehow left Braize through Shadesmar. The Everstorm was somehow moved from Shadesmar into the Physical Realm too. They use this storm as one way to get into the Physical Realm on Roshar. It seems this was the result of some kind of work around Odium figured out, not through the traditional “back and forth” process the Oathpact had in place. I wondered if it was the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram that caused the brokenness the Heralds and Fused experience, but if Thaidikar is experiencing it too, then this doesn’t seem to be the case. In short, Ishar’s experiments may be an attempt to find a work around outside the Oathpact’s boundaries in an attempt to stop or reverse the cognitive decay he’s experiencing. This decay may be a result of the Realm-switching (or lack thereof) the Heralds have experienced over the thousands of years the Oathpact has existed.
Autobrecciation Posted November 25, 2020 Posted November 25, 2020 Quote Questioner How do the Heralds come back? As Cognitive Shadows, how do they a physical body? Brandon Sanderson That system will be explained in the coming books, so that is a RAFO. I'm gonna dig into it pretty deeply. It's relevant for multiple reasons... In the original version, Taln ended up in someone else, like they would get a body from someone else, which was part of fueling the "Is he crazy, is he not," because people were like, "I recognize this guy!" I don't use that system anymore. Questioner That's what I was wondering, because the Fused-- Brandon Sanderson They use something kind of more like the Fused in the original draft, it's not that process anymore. Questioner Is that gonna give us lead-ins to how it worked with Kelsier? Brandon Sanderson Maybe. Maybe. You shall see. Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018) I thought there was a wob that said they got new bodies each time they got sent back... but I can't find it. This is the one I could find. 1
Recommended Posts