All Three Roshar Shards in one

[dannnex male]

A few people earlier were asking about Odium being the shard of Passion. I’m fairly certain that this isn’t true. Rayse’s continuing admonition that he was the shard of passion is what was weakening him, as we see from Sja-Anat’s and Taravangian’s chapters. Rayse didn’t want to admit that he was the Shard of Hate, he wanted to be the shard of Passion. So he kept acting against the Shard’s true will, and this erosion and dichotomy was what was weakening him. 

[lonola]

5 hours ago, Ookla the Disproportionate said:

A few people earlier were asking about Odium being the shard of Passion. I’m fairly certain that this isn’t true. Rayse’s continuing admonition that he was the shard of passion is what was weakening him, as we see from Sja-Anat’s and Taravangian’s chapters. Rayse didn’t want to admit that he was the Shard of Hate, he wanted to be the shard of Passion. So he kept acting against the Shard’s true will, and this erosion and dichotomy was what was weakening him. 

Yeah, I'm really curious how this worked out, because prior to Roshar it seems like Rayse's main deal was travelling around and attacking other Shards, which sounds extremely consistent with its intent of being God's Divine Fury.

Only after becoming invested in Roshar and developing a whole culture around worshipping himself does it seem like he started rebranding himself as being about Passion and the Void. This seems odd because it's the reverse of the process we've seen elsewhere, with the Vessel (seemingly) straying farther from the Intent of the Shard hundreds if not thousands of years after he took it up, rather than the Intent slowly consuming the Vessel and making their goals one and the same.

[seriodor]

I really don't think he's wrong about being passion. If he was only God's own hatred, then what happened to God's other emotions? I think maybe the shard is tuned more towards hatred for some reason that will be revealed to us later. I think that he was acting outside of his Intent by planning and scheming rather than doing. I think his shard wanted to him to act, to struggle with all he has until he can go back to whatever was driving him to travel around killing shards. 

Also just as a side thing, I bet that when everything's out in the open and the main mysteries have been resolved, we'll see that from Rayse's perspective he was doing the right thing for the Cosmere.

Edited November 30, 2020 by seriodor

[Harfyn]

I've kinda been operating under the assumption that Devotion was the closest we were going to get to "love" or an opposite to Odium - not totally sure about that, but in my head that is one of the reasons Rayse went after Aona and Skai first - splinter/shatter your opposite because it could become the most powerful weapon against you - that sorta thing. Don't think we know enough about devotion to know that fully though - but to me it's the closest of the shards we know to covering "Godly Love" whereas Odium is "Godly Hate/fury"

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:05 AM, IndigoAjah said:

Spoiler

My other suggestion is how much can a Dawnshard, 4 of which could split Adonalsium, do to a single Shard? Change, could that Change its Intent, or at least alter it a bit?

Maybe that's how we ended up with Odium and not Passion?

Or maybe if Passion were picked up by someone whose only strong emotion was hate, it would slowly influence the Shard until that emotion became prominent and the Shard became Odium?

I keep wondering if Odium/Passion could be shifted or changed to Compassion/Empathy, [Dawnshard spoiler]

Spoiler

perhaps by the Change Dawnshard.

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Dreamwa1ker

[Leuthie]

Rayse was trying hard to be Honor's opposite. Hate and Honor play off one another to create the never-ending cycle he was in. He was trying to push through the cycle by making himself Passion but the Shard wasn't having any of that.

At least, that's how I interpret it.

[seriodor]

32 minutes ago, Dreamwa1ker said:

I keep wondering if Odium/Passion could be shifted or changed to Compassion/Empathy, [Dawnshard spoiler]

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perhaps by the Change Dawnshard.

 

I feel like Change was already used to split shards off Adonalsium. So Odium is already a result of the main power being altered by Change. Maybe Odium could be further split, but then I feel like you'd need two Dawnshards so that you could define two categories for it to be split into. Like if you had the Change and it's opposite Dawnshards you could break it down into transient passion and stable long lasting passion. So maybe Inspiration and Fervor? Or maybe there's a fifth dawnshard out there that could be used to split any Shard by completely different criteria than all the others.

Edited November 30, 2020 by seriodor