How Did It Get Here And Other Questions

[+Czernobog]

I've always wondered...is there a definitive WOB indicating Nightblood was awakened on Nalthis, as opposed to, say, Roshar? Couldn't find one in the WOB coppermind (using someone else's copperminds can be so challenging ), but my search terms may be off.

[+Bliev she/her]

16 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

My guess is that the Command bridges the Intent-to-Investiture gap, sort of translating the Intent so that the Investiture can do what it’s supposed to - or what it thinks its supposed to. Kinda like coding: Intent is what you want to do, but Command is what you actually write as code. (As for Rosharian/Scadrian Commands... the bonds/metals act like a template to access Surgebinding/Allomancy, so perhaps those qualify as Commands as well? Maybe?)

 

Yes, I was thinking about this. For radiants, they're often described as having an intent, yes, but they put those into thoughts/words in combination with their spren. Maybe the human-spren communication serves as a Command in this sense. "Be a Syl-Blade" or "Heal this person"...you have to want to do it, yes, but in some magics the Command/Intent is combined more so than in others? Because so much of this happens in the mind--the cognitive--as a conduit from spiritual to physical. 

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised to discover that Nightblood is a Dawnshard with a capital-C command.

[Mason Wheeler]

15 hours ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised to discover that Nightblood is a Dawnshard with a capital-C command.

On the one hand, it kinds of feels like "we just discovered what Dawnshards are and now the fans are going crazy and seeing Dawnshards everywhere!"  But on the other hand, this would actually fit WRT couple WOBs:

• Nightblood is the most powerfully invested object in the Cosmere except for the Shards themselves.  Given what we now know of the Dawnshards, this can only mean one of three things.  1) That's not correct and he wasn't thinking of the Dawnshards when he said it.  2) Being non-corporeal, the Dawnshards technically don't count as "invested objects."  3) Nightblood is more strongly invested than a Dawnshard, likely due to containing one within itself.
• "Something extra" unexpectedly went into Nightblood's creation, which Brandon has been very coy about elaborating upon, that makes its nature different from other Awakened swords such as Azure's.
• Nightblood's power is enough to make Vessels nervous.

Given this, I think you might be onto something here.  Maybe.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Mason Wheeler

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

25 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

On the one hand, it kinds of feels like "we just discovered what Dawnshards are and now the fans are going crazy and seeing Dawnshards everywhere!"  But on the other hand, this would actually fit WRT couple WOBs:

• Nightblood is the most powerfully invested object in the Cosmere except for the Shards themselves.  Given what we now know of the Dawnshards, this can only mean one of three things.  1) That's not correct and he wasn't thinking of the Dawnshards when he said it.  2) Being non-corporeal, the Dawnshards technically don't count as "invested objects."  3) Nightblood is more strongly invested than a Dawnshard, likely due to containing one within itself.
• "Something extra" unexpectedly went into Nightblood's creation, which Brandon has been very coy about elaborating upon, that makes its nature different from other Awakened swords such as Azure's.
• Nightblood's power is enough to make Vessels nervous.

Given this, I think you might be onto something here.  Maybe.

I need to go WoB hunting, because I think I remember some more that led me to think this...

[Kuram]

Presumably the dawnshard came from Ashyn as Honor in his death throes raved about dawnshards destroying Ashyn...

And it's typically believed that Odium instigated that or led to that collapse, and came with the humans from Ashyn to Roshar...

So if Odium had that much power and influence over their population, why did he not also hold the Dawnshard, and if he did, why didn't he keep it?

Certainly having such a powerful weapon in the hands of a Shard intent on using it to take apart the others would have been an incredible advantage.

Though at least he probably did have one in the past, it's the only way I can explain one shard took on two and won without apparent damage.

 

As for nightblood, I doubt he's a dawnshard.  Vasher wouldn't have been so scared of Shashara sharing the secret if the catalyst required was so rare and well hidden/protected.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Kuram

[Mason Wheeler]

1 hour ago, Kuram said:

As for nightblood, I doubt he's a dawnshard.  Vasher wouldn't have been so scared of Shashara sharing the secret if the catalyst required was so rare and well hidden/protected.

Assuming he knows.

This is a bit of a wild theory, but consider the following:

• "Something extra" went into Nightblood
• Vasher killed Shashara so that no more Awakened swords could be made... but somehow Azure (Vivenna) has one, which bears some similarities to Nightblood but is far less powerful.  (Likely because it lacks the something extra.)
• Nightblood ended up on Roshar, in the hands of someone dedicated to fighting Odium
• "If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with."  From the first letter in Oathbringer.  Per WOB this was written by Edgli/Endowment.

Theory: Edgli is playing a long game here.  She stuck a Dawnshard into Nightblood, then arranged for it to end up in the hands of someone who would take this god-killing weapon to Roshar just in time for a god desperately in need of killing to emerge.

[Michael Portz he/him]

On 7.11.2020 at 11:34 PM, Ashbringer said:

I think it's what Rushu42 (the in-thread Rushu, not the in-book one) was saying earlier - that "To make a Command" refers to the actual creation of the Dawnshards, not their use.

Or, probably more accurately, that level of "Command" can only be achieved by a diety who understands how their Intent shapes their Investiture, but the Dawnshards achieve that Command for them - letting Investiture be shaped into Intent perfectly by anyone without needing a diety's mind, so long as it relates to "change" or whatever the Command is.

... the question is, does "diety" include Shards? Or just Aldonalsium? Because if it's the former, a Dawnshard would do little for a Shard. The latter... has cataclysmic possibilites.

 

It really depends on what the cosmere definition of "Command" is, because it sounds remarkably similar to Intent... but they're clearly supposed to be different things. Maybe it means Intent is what you want to do, and Command is how that's relayed to the Investiture? And so a Dawnshard is like a perfect communicator to the Investiture to do exactly what you want to do... instead of a purposeful command like "Fetch Keys", the Command can simply be "Change" and with a word the world is set aflame...

It feels like it's the Investiture equivalent of a perfect human-to-Assembly Code translator.

Sorry for coming back so late to you and @Rushu42!

I can follow you regarding the creation of the Dawnshards, this might well be.

On the other hand, I did not find it too difficult to see a difference between Command and Intent. The Command describes what is to be done, the Intent describes the goal of the action. This leaves of course lots to be done, like the "Why" or the "How" or who pays the bagels, im my view typical Investiture stuff.

So my personal hierarchy would be Command (gods only) => Intent (shards) => Investiture (everybody more or less physical)

[Mickey Lehtman he/him]

On 11/11/2020 at 2:00 AM, Michael Portz said:

Sorry for coming back so late to you and @Rushu42!

I can follow you regarding the creation of the Dawnshards, this might well be.

On the other hand, I did not find it too difficult to see a difference between Command and Intent. The Command describes what is to be done, the Intent describes the goal of the action. This leaves of course lots to be done, like the "Why" or the "How" or who pays the bagels, im my view typical Investiture stuff.

So my personal hierarchy would be Command (gods only) => Intent (shards) => Investiture (everybody more or less physical)

To follow up on the above post, we have a triangle of Intent-Command-Investiture. 

Ado had all three (4 Commands, 16 intents (the could have been any 16)and close to infinite Investiture). 

What shattered, the 16 got the intent and investiture (scaled down) but didn't take the Commands, either due to an  agreement not to repeat whatever Ado did that they didn't like or just because they were 16 and there were only 4 Commands. 

So shards can use investiture, but  in a limited fashion - derived from the their intent, without the versatility Commands provide. 

Maybe that is why Odium didn't take the Command on Ashyn - Rayse was bound by a deal. If that's true - what is that thing that wants the Commands? I say Trell (or who ever it is that corrupts investiture throughout the Cosmere) - a god like entity that is not bound by any shattering agreement