Kaladin, chapter 18

[Vessel of Theory he/him]

I am so not okay with this. I mean, I get it. He's going back to what's familiar and close. Still, though, has he ever wanted to be a surgeon? It's a complicated topic, IMO.

[Honorless he/him]

The last lines of that chapter makes it clear how Kaladin feels about it.

Quote

That was the answer, of course. The one Kaladin had been purposely avoiding. He’d considered the ardents, he’d considered the generals, and he’d considered running away.

The answer was in the face of his father, a face that a part of Kaladin dreaded. Deep down, Kaladin had known there was only one place he could go once the spear was taken from him.

“Yes,” Kaladin said. “You’re right. You’ve always been right, Father. I guess… it’s time to continue my training.”

 

[Leuthie]

2 hours ago, Vessel of Theory said:

I am so not okay with this. I mean, I get it. He's going back to what's familiar and close. Still, though, has he ever wanted to be a surgeon? It's a complicated topic, IMO.

I'd have to reread the first part of his story, but I remember him always wanting to be a surgeon. He followed Tien to the military out of a need to protect him and stayed in the military out of a need to protect others to make up for failing to protect Tien (which is the basis for a character arc that should culminate in Kaladin's 4th Ideal Oath). His need to protect will always pull him out of his interest in being a surgeon (unless he changes perspective and can see surgery as an act of protection), especially since his Nahel Bond is specifically based on protecting others. However, the back of the book synopsis of Way of Kings describes Kaladin as "the surgeon, forced to put aside healing, to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time."

In short, it makes perfect sense for Kaladin become a surgeon again. We've just forgotten why.

[broccoli]

I feel positively about it because I think that, through this job, he will grow in the direction he needs while being a surgeon. I do not think it will last. Not even to the end of this book. Like with him being forced out of battle, the feeling is positive although the situation is not the happiest. This book seems to be his upswing, so I belive he needs this in order to progress.

Edited November 5, 2020 by broccoli

[Shardsplinter he/him]

6 hours ago, Honorless said:

The last lines of that chapter makes it clear how Kaladin feels about it.

 

Personally, I struggle to read the true emotions behind those lines for one main reason: Kal is depressed, lost and thinking less of himself throughout this chapter ( at all point his go-to thought is "what did I did wrong now?") so I find him to be an unreliable narrator. When he says, for example, 

Deep down, Kaladin had known there was only one place he could go once the spear was taken from him. 

Does he mean only one place that made him feel ok, or just one place like he has no other choice. Which way did you interpreted this? Am I the only one double-thinking this lines?

 

In general I believe going back to surgery will be very positive for Kaladin. On his WoK flashbacks,like some have stated here, he actually decided after many thought that he preferred being a surgeon. This only changed through necessity. Either this is temporary or long-term, I do believe it will do our good pal Kal some benefit to reconnect with that part of himself and also with his dad.

On the other hand the way the chapter adressed this choice left me a little bit worried. Lirin's reaction was unappropiate IMHO. He completely disregarded his son's emotions on the matter and skipped to deciding for him. Kal just seemed to roll with the punch. So, like I said, I do think this is can be a possitive experience for him but only if old Lirin starts to put his pride aside and actually helps his son.

 

 

[garlick]

I don't really think this is what kaladin wants. He seems reluctant to join the surgeon and is just falling back on the familiar. Also it's what his father wants, and we've seen hes afraid of disappointing him. Hes gonna go on "auto-pilot" existing but not really being there. If he could truly allow the windrunners to fight without him, he could swear the 4th oath.I think its along the lines of I cant protect everyone, or I have to let people defend themselves. 

 In the end I think kaladin will learn what he needs to from lirin and working with the surgeons to swear the 4th oath. He'll have to leave his father or someone he cares about to defend the greater good, most likely the attack on the tower.

[ftl]

It is absolutely a sad moment for Kaladin - he sees this like giving in, like giving up. That comes through in his PoV, where he's feeling resigned and sad. And it certainly isn't the place he'd fit in the long term.

I think it's clearly a place where he might take some steps forward - learn new things about leading and protecting and helping that will help him advance further in the oaths. So I feel positive about it though Kal clearly doesn't.

[Vessel of Theory he/him]

2 hours ago, ftl said:

It is absolutely a sad moment for Kaladin - he sees this like giving in, like giving up. That comes through in his PoV, where he's feeling resigned and sad. And it certainly isn't the place he'd fit in the long term.

I think it's clearly a place where he might take some steps forward - learn new things about leading and protecting and helping that will help him advance further in the oaths. So I feel positive about it though Kal clearly doesn't.

Love that, definitely agree with you. I didn't think for a second that he was going to enjoy his time, but then again, he's Kaladin. I agree, he's definitely going to learn some things, emotionally recover somewhat, rebuild ties with his family(ahem Lirin), and take a mental/emotional step back to get a kind of new view on things.

 

[JoyBlu she/her]

So I had been having similar thoughts about Kaladin joining his father as a surgeon again in the Preview chapters. Then I just read this  from OB pg 728. 
 

Quote

“Oh! Well, you’re quite quick off the cuff, Kal! Eager for combat, I’d say.” “Perhaps, sir.” “You want to prove yourself to the team,” Noro said, rubbing his wispy beard. “Well, I like a man with enthusiasm. Keep your head, and I suspect you’ll end up as a squadleader before too long.” He said it like a proud parent.

 

“Permission, sir, to be excused from duty? There might be wounded that need my attention farther along the wall.”

“Wounded? Kal, I know you said you had some field medicine training—but the army’s surgeons will be there already.” Right, they’d have actual surgeons. Noro clapped him on the shoulder. “Go in and eat your stew. There will be enough action later. Don’t run too fast toward danger, all right?” “I’ll … try to remember that, sir.”

Just as when Kaladin was running bridges — his very first thought is how to help heal people. Whenever he sees battle he always tries to get them help. He understands that medical help was necessary and that’s why he bribed the medics in Amarams Army. I really think that the fighting and healing go hand-in-hand. They compliment one another. I believe that Kaladin has a natural inclination to heal and that he is fighting it because that is just his personality and some PTSD with his family surrounding becoming a surgeon. 
 

I am looking forward to discovering what will happen to Kal the surgeon.