This_Is_Samer Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 Hi guys, As I mentioned in a previous post (https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/92700-oathbringer-questions-upon-first-reread-prologue-to-chapter-18-33-questions/), I am rereading OB and taking notes of things I missed or I didn't understand completely. I already made a post about the first half of part 1, in addition to a previous questions post covering chapters 83 till the end of the book. I received amazing answers and explanations from the community here on both posts, which I am grateful for I am planning to continue these posts in order to learn more from the knowledgeable SA fans on this forum and hopefully provide a discussion that is informative to all members. My questions for this part are: 1- During Dalinar's flashback when he meets Evi's brother, her brother exclaims when he knows Alethkar has soulcasters, and says Iri doesn't. Any reason for this? Is soulcasting related to the Vorin church / Vorin kingdoms / East Roshar? 2- When Shallan sees Mraize in Ialai's room, he tells her that he wants her to expunge the darkness from Urithiru so they seccure it in preparation for the Voidbringers. What did he mean? Why does he want to secure it for them? 3- Is it 100% confirmed that Kaladin killed Helaran? Or might he still be alive? 4- I seem to forget the exact details but why did Amaram try to kidnap Taln? And why did Iyatil try to assassinate him? 5- Did Iyatil appear in OB? Do we know where is she? 6- When the voidspren speaks to Kaladin, he notices that she has eyes like the Shin. Do we know of any connection between the Shin and the spren of the Fused? 7- It is mentioned that Taravangian lost his intelligence due to an illness. In fact, his fluctuating intelligence levels are due to the Nightwatcher's boon/curse, no? 8- Is Malata a knight radiant? If so, how come her spren bonded her when she has ulterior motives not in the best interest of her KR order? 9- Dalinar questions whether Malata holds a honor blade or a sprenblade. Do we know which is it? 10- Any mention in OB on Redin, the bastard son of the departed king of Jah Keved? 11- Navani tells Dalinar that old magic never goes away. So what Cultivation did on Dalinar was not the old magic. What was it? 12- Pattern tells Shallan that the Dustbringers don't like being called by that name. Any reason for that? 13- Why do the voidspren scream upon the use of fabrials in Kholinar? 14- In Chapter 27, before going to the bottom of Urithiru and discovering the Midnight Mother, Shallan and Pattern notice sketches in her sketchbook that she isn't aware of drawing before. Is it something that Lightweavers do? Or is something affecting Shallan's memory? 15- The Stormfather informs Dalinar that he has the ability to show the visions to whoever he wishes to. And then he tells him, I have the ability to choose bondsmiths that way. What does he mean? When he shows Navani, Fen and Gawx the visions, does he mean he made them Bondsmiths? 16- In which cases, in which realms, and under which circumstances do shadows point in the wrong direction? 17- Are the black forms unleashed by Re-Shephir in Urithiru similar to the ones Dalinar fought in his visions? 18- Do other unmade have the same black forms that can materialize, or are they just unleashed by Re-Shephir? 19- Do all lighteyes on Roshar get soulcast into stone statues (such as Shallan's family members, Gavilar, etc...)? 20- Why doesn't Amaram hear Oathbringer scream when he holds it while Dalinar does? 21- On her way down to the tunnels under Urithiru, before the fight with the Midnight Mother, Shallan sees a room with a mosaic depicting the heralds and the spren. She is surprised at the pagan symbolism in the Knights' Radiant city. Why does she considers these depictions to be pagan? 22- In the tunnels, Shallan tells Renarin that they both can feel the wrongness there but Dalinar can't. Does that have to do with their orders or with them specifically? 23- Do we know if there are 9 or 10 unmade? 24- Before attacking Re-Shephir, Shallan summons Pattern and she feels pain inside, describing it as "the pain of an ideal sworn but not yet overcome", what does that mean? 25- Can only Knights Radiants capture the unmade (Like the lightweaver who captured Re-Shephir and Dalinar caputring Nergaooul)? 26- Is Ulim bonded to anyone? 27- Why does Ulim ask Demid to raise his palm before he took the shape of a human and stood on Demid's hand? 28- Are the voidspren or the Fused the listener's gods? 29- What happened to Eshonai's shardblade which Venli took from the chasm? 30- When Kaladin sees the Fused for the first time in Revolar, he thinks they are the same as the Parshendi that Bridge Four fought in Narak. Is this correct? 31- What is the difference between the Parshendi who killed Gavilar, the Parshendi after the Everstorm, the regular parshmen after the Everstorm and the Fused? 32- Shallan theorizes that Re-Shephir might have been human in ancient times. Why does she say that? 33- Puuli mentions the Secret Island of the Origin. Does he mean Aimia? And why does he think Kelek lives in the Storm? Which religion teaches this? 1
Nae'blis Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 33 minutes ago, This_Is_Samer said: Hi guys, As I mentioned in a previous post (https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/92700-oathbringer-questions-upon-first-reread-prologue-to-chapter-18-33-questions/), I am rereading OB and taking notes of things I missed or I didn't understand completely. I already made a post about the first half of part 1, in addition to a previous questions post covering chapters 83 till the end of the book. I received amazing answers and explanations from the community here on both posts, which I am grateful for I am planning to continue these posts in order to learn more from the knowledgeable SA fans on this forum and hopefully provide a discussion that is informative to all members. My questions for this part are: 1- During Dalinar's flashback when he meets Evi's brother, her brother exclaims when he knows Alethkar has soulcasters, and says Iri doesn't. Any reason for this? Is soulcasting related to the Vorin church / Vorin kingdoms / East Roshar? 2- When Shallan sees Mraize in Ialai's room, he tells her that he wants her to expunge the darkness from Urithiru so they seccure it in preparation for the Voidbringers. What did he mean? Why does he want to secure it for them? 3- Is it 100% confirmed that Kaladin killed Helaran? Or might he still be alive? 4- I seem to forget the exact details but why did Amaram try to kidnap Taln? And why did Iyatil try to assassinate him? 5- Did Iyatil appear in OB? Do we know where is she? 6- When the voidspren speaks to Kaladin, he notices that she has eyes like the Shin. Do we know of any connection between the Shin and the spren of the Fused? 7- It is mentioned that Taravangian lost his intelligence due to an illness. In fact, his fluctuating intelligence levels are due to the Nightwatcher's boon/curse, no? 8- Is Malata a knight radiant? If so, how come her spren bonded her when she has ulterior motives not in the best interest of her KR order? 9- Dalinar questions whether Malata holds a honor blade or a sprenblade. Do we know which is it? 10- Any mention in OB on Redin, the bastard son of the departed king of Jah Keved? 11- Navani tells Dalinar that old magic never goes away. So what Cultivation did on Dalinar was not the old magic. What was it? 12- Pattern tells Shallan that the Dustbringers don't like being called by that name. Any reason for that? 13- Why do the voidspren scream upon the use of fabrials in Kholinar? 14- In Chapter 27, before going to the bottom of Urithiru and discovering the Midnight Mother, Shallan and Pattern notice sketches in her sketchbook that she isn't aware of drawing before. Is it something that Lightweavers do? Or is something affecting Shallan's memory? 15- The Stormfather informs Dalinar that he has the ability to show the visions to whoever he wishes to. And then he tells him, I have the ability to choose bondsmiths that way. What does he mean? When he shows Navani, Fen and Gawx the visions, does he mean he made them Bondsmiths? 16- In which cases, in which realms, and under which circumstances do shadows point in the wrong direction? 17- Are the black forms unleashed by Re-Shephir in Urithiru similar to the ones Dalinar fought in his visions? 18- Do other unmade have the same black forms that can materialize, or are they just unleashed by Re-Shephir? 19- Do all lighteyes on Roshar get soulcast into stone statues (such as Shallan's family members, Gavilar, etc...)? 20- Why doesn't Amaram hear Oathbringer scream when he holds it while Dalinar does? 21- On her way down to the tunnels under Urithiru, before the fight with the Midnight Mother, Shallan sees a room with a mosaic depicting the heralds and the spren. She is surprised at the pagan symbolism in the Knights' Radiant city. Why does she considers these depictions to be pagan? 22- In the tunnels, Shallan tells Renarin that they both can feel the wrongness there but Dalinar can't. Does that have to do with their orders or with them specifically? 23- Do we know if there are 9 or 10 unmade? 24- Before attacking Re-Shephir, Shallan summons Pattern and she feels pain inside, describing it as "the pain of an ideal sworn but not yet overcome", what does that mean? 25- Can only Knights Radiants capture the unmade (Like the lightweaver who captured Re-Shephir and Dalinar caputring Nergaooul)? 26- Is Ulim bonded to anyone? 27- Why does Ulim ask Demid to raise his palm before he took the shape of a human and stood on Demid's hand? 28- Are the voidspren or the Fused the listener's gods? 29- What happened to Eshonai's shardblade which Venli took from the chasm? 30- When Kaladin sees the Fused for the first time in Revolar, he thinks they are the same as the Parshendi that Bridge Four fought in Narak. Is this correct? 31- What is the difference between the Parshendi who killed Gavilar, the Parshendi after the Everstorm, the regular parshmen after the Everstorm and the Fused? 32- Shallan theorizes that Re-Shephir might have been human in ancient times. Why does she say that? 33- Puuli mentions the Secret Island of the Origin. Does he mean Aimia? And why does he think Kelek lives in the Storm? Which religion teaches this? I dunno answer to most questions. Yet i will answer those i know. Nice questions by the by. 2) Though i am not sure, I guess the answer to this is there in Rhythm of war preview chapters. Venli POV. 3) Pretty sure he is dead. 4) He didnt try to. Infact he dosent even know taln. His sub-lord Roshone recoomended taln to army because of his fight with lirin. 6) Not any that i know of. 7) Yes . either compassionate or intelligent a day. 8) She is. But then regarding knight radiants ideals...its how the spren see the ideals right? With honor dead and no one to guide them, i guess some sprens may go in direction they believe suits their ideals/ needs. 9) shardblade. 10) ig no. no 11) It is 'old magic'. Dalinars boon was that he will forget the events but curse was that he will forget everything. But she said she will give it back slowly, Nurturing dalinar. A cultivation thing. 12) There powers are most destructive and along with that dustbringer is similar to voidbringer. 13) To warn the fused i believe. and stop its usuage. 14) Was it Veil? Not sure. though i guess its shallans health problem. 15) what he meant was that honor asked him to choose someone to show this visions( that is choose that guy as bondsmith). Now either because of being a bondsmith or something else dalinar can call anyone to his visions. 16) In cognitive realm(mind one) humans shadows are inverted(is ot only humans..i forgot) 17) I guess they are caused by two different unmades, so no. 18) Midnight essence special. 20) screams of dead shardblades can be heard only by radiants. aramam isnt one. 21) that pagan picture is of cultivation who is primarly worshipped by those in west, while she is from vorin country who worshippes honor. so its a religious view. 23) 9 28) Most probably the fused. 33) some associate stormfather to kalak. misconception. 1
Weltall Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 I'll take a swing at these. 1. Recall that when people talk about Soulcasting, they almost always mean ardents using the fabrials of the same name, because the fact that you can Soulcast through surgebinding is basically forgotten. It's why Jasnah has a fake Soulcaster in WoK, to hide the fact that she's doing it all on her own. The fabrials are extremely rare and nobody knows how to make new ones so Iri probably just doesn't have any. Pretty much all the ones we do know about are owned by the various governments, with the one that Shallan's family came into possession of being an exception that they have to keep secret. 2. Pretty much any question to do with the Ghostbloods and their goals is a big 'we don't know'. 3. It was Helaran's Blade and we know the person Kaladin killed is very dead because of the way the blade and plate behaved, so unless he gave his gear to someone else (contradicting everything we've been told about what he was doing there) it's pretty safe to say that Helaran's very dead. 4. Because the Sons of Honor want the Heralds to return to guide Roshar and reestablish what they think the proper form of Vorinism should be, so getting a Herald to join them is a pretty big deal. We don't know why the Ghostbloods wanted to kill him but the two groups seem opposed in a lot of ways. 5. No and no, though it's a reasonable assumption that she's in Urithiru somewhere. 6. It might have something to do with how Rayse 'looks Shin' to Dalinar, with the spren reflecting the Shard that they're Splinters of. We don't know yet why the Shin look different from the rest of the humans on Roshar (including peoples who migrated from worlds other than Ashyn) but it's probably going to come out whenever we get details on that critical period in history where so much Important Stuff happened. 7. Yes, his intelligence and compassion are inversely linked and change daily, the story about an illness hides this fact from the public. 8. The Radiants are an institution and everyone is pretty much reinventing it as they go along. We know that the Ideals can be extremely flexible and depend on both the Order you belong to (ie, some could see 'journey before destination' as referring to the whole species) and the individual surgebinder and their spren. There isn't a contradiction in Malata being a Diagramist and a Dustbringer. 9. We have no reason to think she isn't exactly what she presents herself as and by her own admission she was bonded to Spark before she approached the Diagram, so unless you want to imagine that she somehow James Bond-ed her way into wherever the Shin are holding the Honorblades and stole one without getting caught.. xD 10. I don't believe so. 11. Bear in mind that what the characters know isn't necessarily the truth. But the Old Magic appears to be something the Nightwatcher uses on people, while Dalinar went directly to the source and got a boon/curse that was wrapped up in one package and served Cultivation's interests very directly. 12. Yeah, because it sounds like 'Voidbringer', which is why they try to get people to call them Releasers instead. The name doesn't seem to have caught on with anyone outside the Order however 13. They're warning Odium's forces whenever they detect fabrials in use, they may be compelled to scream or it may be just how they've decided to signal what they're detecting. It certainly gets attention quickly. 14. Some of it seems to be Re-Shephir's influence on Shallan but it also probably has to do with Shallan's personas and how she starts losing herself in them over the course of the book. 15. No, they're two separate statements. He uses the visions to find potential Bondsmiths but whether they become surgebinders or not is up to them. Sending the visions as a way of communicating is just something he realized he can do now that he's spent time bonded to Dalinar and doesn't imply that everyone who sees the visions in this way is a potential Bondsmith. 16. We know that reversed shadows have a common source and it seems to be a Cognitive Realm thing. 17. Same things, Midnight Essence. 18. The Midnight Essence is a Re-Shephir thing, which is why she's known as the Midnight Mother. 19. No, for various reasons. You need a recovered and intact body to be Soulcast in the first place, you need somebody nearby with one of the fabrials and you need to be able to pay for the service, so it's a safe bet that plenty of lighteyes (even important ones) don't get the Soulcaster Funeral treatment. But the ones whose families can afford it, yeah. 20. Amaram isn't bonded to a spren, so he doesn't hear the screaming when he touches a deadeye blade. 21. While we don't know how the religion developed, Vorinism treats Honor (the Almighty) as the only divinity, meaning that Cultivation is seen as a pagan goddess 22. It's presumably because they both share the Surge of Illumination. 23. There are nine of them 24. Shallan has a mental block where it comes to the fact that she killed her mother with Pattern. She deals with it by creating Radiant as a new persona that can deal with it, meaning that when she as Shallan summons Pattern it causes some issues. Again, it's setting up that whole plot thread that Shallan has to deal with during the story. 25. We don't know, but the fact that a Bondsmith was essential to the plan to capture Ba-Ado-Mishram is suggestive. 26. Not that we know of, nor do we know what type of spren he is for that matter. 27. Dunno, maybe he just had a flair for the dramatic. 28. The fused. Note that later in the book we see references to Knights Radiant as gods, in the same sense. 29. We don't know yet, either someone was given it or Team Odium is sitting on it and waiting for the right person to hand it off to. 30. Nope, the transformed listeners from the end of WoR are Regals (bonded to voidspren that give access to Forms of Power) while the Fused are the Cognitive Shadows of singers from long long ago when humans first arrived on Roshar, possessing the bodies of their distant descendants. Kaladin has no way to know any of this however. 31. The Parshmen are the ancient singers who had their Connection and Identity damaged as an unexpected consequence of the aforementioned sealing away of BAM, the listeners (Parshendi) were a group that fled beforehand and weren't affected, but lost access to almost all of their Forms. Post-Everstorm Parshmen had their Connection/Identity restored (with some tweaks as they now take after the humans in the regions they were inhabiting) and are now able to bond with voidspren to take those more advanced Forms again, and as mentioned the Fused are their own special thing. 32. She gets the sense that something is missing in Re-Shephir and thinks that maybe at one point she was human. This almost certainly isn't the case but we know the Unmade were 'first made, then unmade' so she's probably not entirely wrong. Again bear in mind that the characters don't know a lot of things and a lot of their knowledge is (to our perspective) either inaccurate or flat-out wrong. 33. We know there's a belief in land within the Origin (see the story Hoid tells about the Wandersail) and we've seen a similar conflation of Jezrien and the Stormfather so it's probably just more of the same. 2
Karger he/him Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 1- During Dalinar's flashback when he meets Evi's brother, her brother exclaims when he knows Alethkar has soulcasters, and says Iri doesn't. Any reason for this? Is soulcasting related to the Vorin church / Vorin kingdoms / East Roshar? Reading between the lines it seems that the Sunnmaker is to blame for this. It seems that a large number of shardblades and soulcasters are in Vorin hands. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 2- When Shallan sees Mraize in Ialai's room, he tells her that he wants her to expunge the darkness from Urithiru so they seccure it in preparation for the Voidbringers. What did he mean? Why does he want to secure it for them? He wants the Unmade gone and claims he wants the tower in Radiant hands. His reasons are still opace. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 3- Is it 100% confirmed that Kaladin killed Helaran? Or might he still be alive? Depends on your standard for proof. I would say yes Kaladin killed him. Anything else is pretty convoluted. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 4- I seem to forget the exact details but why did Amaram try to kidnap Taln? And why did Iyatil try to assassinate him? Amaram is a member of the sons of honor. A group of religious idiots that Gavilar made use of. They wanted to start a desolation to return the radiants and heralds along with the power of the Vorin church. Mraize was also present and tried to kill Amaram not Taln. His reasons are still unknown. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 5- Did Iyatil appear in OB? Do we know where is she? I don't think so to both questions. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 6- When the voidspren speaks to Kaladin, he notices that she has eyes like the Shin. Do we know of any connection between the Shin and the spren of the Fused? No. I think this to be a reflection of Odium's vessel Rayse who would look Shin to a Rosharan. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 7- It is mentioned that Taravangian lost his intelligence due to an illness. In fact, his fluctuating intelligence levels are due to the Nightwatcher's boon/curse, no? If you are talking about his public persona then yes. He is only considered safe to interact when he is a bit on the stupid side. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 8- Is Malata a knight radiant? If so, how come her spren bonded her when she has ulterior motives not in the best interest of her KR order? Malata does appear to be the real deal. Contrary to popular belief all it technically takes to make a radiant are a spren and human who trust each other enough to make it work. Spark seems to really hate humans and thought it was worth the possibility of death to get some payback. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 9- Dalinar questions whether Malata holds a honor blade or a sprenblade. Do we know which is it? She has a spren. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 10- Any mention in OB on Redin, the bastard son of the departed king of Jah Keved? Nothing major. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 11- Navani tells Dalinar that old magic never goes away. So what Cultivation did on Dalinar was not the old magic. What was it? The old magic is not really understood. Cultivation as a "god" can do basically whatever she wants. This is an exageration but shards have made planets so her wiping Dalinar is not particularly impressive by comparison. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 12- Pattern tells Shallan that the Dustbringers don't like being called by that name. Any reason for that? Sounds a bit like voidbringers. The Dustbringers had a bad rep back in the day and their name did not help. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 13- Why do the voidspren scream upon the use of fabrials in Kholinar? They are alerting the fused to where investiture is being used. The type is largely irrelevant provided it is "loud" enough. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 14- In Chapter 27, before going to the bottom of Urithiru and discovering the Midnight Mother, Shallan and Pattern notice sketches in her sketchbook that she isn't aware of drawing before. Is it something that Lightweavers do? Or is something affecting Shallan's memory? Yes. Shallan's mental state is effected by her use of lightweavings and vice versa. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 15- The Stormfather informs Dalinar that he has the ability to show the visions to whoever he wishes to. And then he tells him, I have the ability to choose bondsmiths that way. What does he mean? When he shows Navani, Fen and Gawx the visions, does he mean he made them Bondsmiths? No. He was given a bunch of messages by Honor(the visions) and told to send them to bondsmith candidates. Dalinar is reusing them for communication. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 16- In which cases, in which realms, and under which circumstances do shadows point in the wrong direction? Generally shadows pointing backwards means the cognitive realm is involved. On Roshar it has a backwards sky with a slight brightness everywhere and a dark whole where the sun should be. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 17- Are the black forms unleashed by Re-Shephir in Urithiru similar to the ones Dalinar fought in his visions? Yes. They seem to be the same. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 18- Do other unmade have the same black forms that can materialize, or are they just unleashed by Re-Shephir? The unmade are all unique and do different types of stuff. The black forms are Re-Shephir's thing. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 19- Do all lighteyes on Roshar get soulcast into stone statues (such as Shallan's family members, Gavilar, etc...)? It is a sign of status so generally yes. Shallan's family was hiding her father's death though so the burned him like a darkeyes. Soulcasters are expensive but they are often rented for funerals. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 20- Why doesn't Amaram hear Oathbringer scream when he holds it while Dalinar does? He is not a proto radiant. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 21- On her way down to the tunnels under Urithiru, before the fight with the Midnight Mother, Shallan sees a room with a mosaic depicting the heralds and the spren. She is surprised at the pagan symbolism in the Knights' Radiant city. Why does she considers these depictions to be pagan? Religious drift. The Radiants had better knowledge of who and what Honor and Cultivation were but the modern ardents dislike the worship of Cultivation and brand it heretical. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 22- In the tunnels, Shallan tells Renarin that they both can feel the wrongness there but Dalinar can't. Does that have to do with their orders or with them specifically? Unclear. It might be that they both have access to Illumination or that the Stormfather is not present in person or a lot of other things(like personality). We really don't know. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 23- Do we know if there are 9 or 10 unmade? Brandon says nine. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 24- Before attacking Re-Shephir, Shallan summons Pattern and she feels pain inside, describing it as "the pain of an ideal sworn but not yet overcome", what does that mean? She spoke her truth but has not come to terms with it yet. She is getting feedback. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 25- Can only Knights Radiants capture the unmade (Like the lightweaver who captured Re-Shephir and Dalinar caputring Nergaooul)? Unclear. A personal connection is key and it is probably much easier for a radiant but we don't know. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 26- Is Ulim bonded to anyone? No. Only the 10 radiantspren bond like that(unless you ment bonded in a gemheart in which case he would be stuck there so also no). Other bonds are theoretically possible but none are on screen yet except maybe Renarin. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 28- Are the voidspren or the Fused the listener's gods? Yes. Generally though gods refers to the Fused. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 29- What happened to Eshonai's shardblade which Venli took from the chasm? Good question. Unknown. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 30- When Kaladin sees the Fused for the first time in Revolar, he thinks they are the same as the Parshendi that Bridge Four fought in Narak. Is this correct? Bridge four did not fight any fused at Narrak so no. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 31- What is the difference between the Parshendi who killed Gavilar, the Parshendi after the Everstorm, the regular parshmen after the Everstorm and the Fused? OK this one is a bit convoluted. The Parshendi call themselves listeners but the whole rase should probably be refered to as singers. Singers have a unique ability to bond spren and change forms. The listeners were a sepratist movement of singers who left the waring humans and singers behind to form their own society. Because of this they escaped the mindlessness caused by the radiants during the false desolation(we still don't know exactly how this happend). King Gavilar met a group of them well hunting and was amazed by the fact that they intellegent and invited them to Kholinar. Gavilar's motivations are mysterious but he told Eshonai that he wanted to bring back the fused. Eshonai was horrified as her people's history told them that the fused were evil. Because of this Eshonai and her follow listeners killed Gavilar. The result was the war of the first two books. Because of desperation Venli conviced her sister Eshonai to try a new form. A form of power called stormform. Changing forms changes both capabilities and attitutdes and this one courupted Eshonai and made her act out of character. Eshonai enginereed the transformation of almost all of her population into stormform and used that form to summon the everstorm. This fixed what had been done to the singers allowing them to regain their intellegence and indpendence. If a singer bonds a fused instead of an ordinary spren they die and their body is used to host the fused. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 32- Shallan theorizes that Re-Shephir might have been human in ancient times. Why does she say that? She does not know. It is an impression. 2 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: 33- Puuli mentions the Secret Island of the Origin. Does he mean Aimia? And why does he think Kelek lives in the Storm? Which religion teaches this? The stormfather has been conflated with a herald(usually Kelek or Jes) by many Vorins. The origin is a place you can't reach because you can't sail during a highstorm. However the storms come from some place to the east. As such much speculation and mythology talks about what is at the origin or place where the highstorms come from even though modern Rosharans actually think that there is only one highstorm that just moves around the world in a circle. 1
This_Is_Samer Posted October 29, 2020 Author Posted October 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Weltall said: I'll take a swing at these. 1. Recall that when people talk about Soulcasting, they almost always mean ardents using the fabrials of the same name, because the fact that you can Soulcast through surgebinding is basically forgotten. It's why Jasnah has a fake Soulcaster in WoK, to hide the fact that she's doing it all on her own. The fabrials are extremely rare and nobody knows how to make new ones so Iri probably just doesn't have any. Pretty much all the ones we do know about are owned by the various governments, with the one that Shallan's family came into possession of being an exception that they have to keep secret. 2. Pretty much any question to do with the Ghostbloods and their goals is a big 'we don't know'. 3. It was Helaran's Blade and we know the person Kaladin killed is very dead because of the way the blade and plate behaved, so unless he gave his gear to someone else (contradicting everything we've been told about what he was doing there) it's pretty safe to say that Helaran's very dead. 4. Because the Sons of Honor want the Heralds to return to guide Roshar and reestablish what they think the proper form of Vorinism should be, so getting a Herald to join them is a pretty big deal. We don't know why the Ghostbloods wanted to kill him but the two groups seem opposed in a lot of ways. 5. No and no, though it's a reasonable assumption that she's in Urithiru somewhere. 6. It might have something to do with how Rayse 'looks Shin' to Dalinar, with the spren reflecting the Shard that they're Splinters of. We don't know yet why the Shin look different from the rest of the humans on Roshar (including peoples who migrated from worlds other than Ashyn) but it's probably going to come out whenever we get details on that critical period in history where so much Important Stuff happened. 7. Yes, his intelligence and compassion are inversely linked and change daily, the story about an illness hides this fact from the public. 8. The Radiants are an institution and everyone is pretty much reinventing it as they go along. We know that the Ideals can be extremely flexible and depend on both the Order you belong to (ie, some could see 'journey before destination' as referring to the whole species) and the individual surgebinder and their spren. There isn't a contradiction in Malata being a Diagramist and a Dustbringer. 9. We have no reason to think she isn't exactly what she presents herself as and by her own admission she was bonded to Spark before she approached the Diagram, so unless you want to imagine that she somehow James Bond-ed her way into wherever the Shin are holding the Honorblades and stole one without getting caught.. xD 10. I don't believe so. 11. Bear in mind that what the characters know isn't necessarily the truth. But the Old Magic appears to be something the Nightwatcher uses on people, while Dalinar went directly to the source and got a boon/curse that was wrapped up in one package and served Cultivation's interests very directly. 12. Yeah, because it sounds like 'Voidbringer', which is why they try to get people to call them Releasers instead. The name doesn't seem to have caught on with anyone outside the Order however 13. They're warning Odium's forces whenever they detect fabrials in use, they may be compelled to scream or it may be just how they've decided to signal what they're detecting. It certainly gets attention quickly. 14. Some of it seems to be Re-Shephir's influence on Shallan but it also probably has to do with Shallan's personas and how she starts losing herself in them over the course of the book. 15. No, they're two separate statements. He uses the visions to find potential Bondsmiths but whether they become surgebinders or not is up to them. Sending the visions as a way of communicating is just something he realized he can do now that he's spent time bonded to Dalinar and doesn't imply that everyone who sees the visions in this way is a potential Bondsmith. 16. We know that reversed shadows have a common source and it seems to be a Cognitive Realm thing. 17. Same things, Midnight Essence. 18. The Midnight Essence is a Re-Shephir thing, which is why she's known as the Midnight Mother. 19. No, for various reasons. You need a recovered and intact body to be Soulcast in the first place, you need somebody nearby with one of the fabrials and you need to be able to pay for the service, so it's a safe bet that plenty of lighteyes (even important ones) don't get the Soulcaster Funeral treatment. But the ones whose families can afford it, yeah. 20. Amaram isn't bonded to a spren, so he doesn't hear the screaming when he touches a deadeye blade. 21. While we don't know how the religion developed, Vorinism treats Honor (the Almighty) as the only divinity, meaning that Cultivation is seen as a pagan goddess 22. It's presumably because they both share the Surge of Illumination. 23. There are nine of them 24. Shallan has a mental block where it comes to the fact that she killed her mother with Pattern. She deals with it by creating Radiant as a new persona that can deal with it, meaning that when she as Shallan summons Pattern it causes some issues. Again, it's setting up that whole plot thread that Shallan has to deal with during the story. 25. We don't know, but the fact that a Bondsmith was essential to the plan to capture Ba-Ado-Mishram is suggestive. 26. Not that we know of, nor do we know what type of spren he is for that matter. 27. Dunno, maybe he just had a flair for the dramatic. 28. The fused. Note that later in the book we see references to Knights Radiant as gods, in the same sense. 29. We don't know yet, either someone was given it or Team Odium is sitting on it and waiting for the right person to hand it off to. 30. Nope, the transformed listeners from the end of WoR are Regals (bonded to voidspren that give access to Forms of Power) while the Fused are the Cognitive Shadows of singers from long long ago when humans first arrived on Roshar, possessing the bodies of their distant descendants. Kaladin has no way to know any of this however. 31. The Parshmen are the ancient singers who had their Connection and Identity damaged as an unexpected consequence of the aforementioned sealing away of BAM, the listeners (Parshendi) were a group that fled beforehand and weren't affected, but lost access to almost all of their Forms. Post-Everstorm Parshmen had their Connection/Identity restored (with some tweaks as they now take after the humans in the regions they were inhabiting) and are now able to bond with voidspren to take those more advanced Forms again, and as mentioned the Fused are their own special thing. 32. She gets the sense that something is missing in Re-Shephir and thinks that maybe at one point she was human. This almost certainly isn't the case but we know the Unmade were 'first made, then unmade' so she's probably not entirely wrong. Again bear in mind that the characters don't know a lot of things and a lot of their knowledge is (to our perspective) either inaccurate or flat-out wrong. 33. We know there's a belief in land within the Origin (see the story Hoid tells about the Wandersail) and we've seen a similar conflation of Jezrien and the Stormfather so it's probably just more of the same. This was illuminating! Especially the referrals to WoB. Thank you! Regarding Malata, does that mean in your opinion that all Dustbringers have ulterior motives / their spren want vengeance for the recreance?
This_Is_Samer Posted October 29, 2020 Author Posted October 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Nae'blis said: I dunno answer to most questions. Yet i will answer those i know. Nice questions by the by. 2) Though i am not sure, I guess the answer to this is there in Rhythm of war preview chapters. Venli POV. 3) Pretty sure he is dead. 4) He didnt try to. Infact he dosent even know taln. His sub-lord Roshone recoomended taln to army because of his fight with lirin. 6) Not any that i know of. 7) Yes . either compassionate or intelligent a day. 8) She is. But then regarding knight radiants ideals...its how the spren see the ideals right? With honor dead and no one to guide them, i guess some sprens may go in direction they believe suits their ideals/ needs. 9) shardblade. 10) ig no. no 11) It is 'old magic'. Dalinars boon was that he will forget the events but curse was that he will forget everything. But she said she will give it back slowly, Nurturing dalinar. A cultivation thing. 12) There powers are most destructive and along with that dustbringer is similar to voidbringer. 13) To warn the fused i believe. and stop its usuage. 14) Was it Veil? Not sure. though i guess its shallans health problem. 15) what he meant was that honor asked him to choose someone to show this visions( that is choose that guy as bondsmith). Now either because of being a bondsmith or something else dalinar can call anyone to his visions. 16) In cognitive realm(mind one) humans shadows are inverted(is ot only humans..i forgot) 17) I guess they are caused by two different unmades, so no. 18) Midnight essence special. 20) screams of dead shardblades can be heard only by radiants. aramam isnt one. 21) that pagan picture is of cultivation who is primarly worshipped by those in west, while she is from vorin country who worshippes honor. so its a religious view. 23) 9 28) Most probably the fused. 33) some associate stormfather to kalak. misconception. Thank you for the info!
This_Is_Samer Posted October 29, 2020 Author Posted October 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, Karger said: Reading between the lines it seems that the Sunnmaker is to blame for this. It seems that a large number of shardblades and soulcasters are in Vorin hands. Maybe we will get more info in the back 5 about the Sunmaker? 14 minutes ago, Karger said: Amaram is a member of the sons of honor. A group of religious idiots that Gavilar made use of. They wanted to start a desolation to return the radiants and heralds along with the power of the Vorin church. Mraize was also present and tried to kill Amaram not Taln. His reasons are still unknown. Do you feel the Diagram is also opposed to both groups or do they lean more on the side of Sons of Honor? 16 minutes ago, Karger said: No. I think this to be a reflection of Odium's vessel Rayse who would look Shin to a Rosharan. But in that scene, Kal saw one of the Fused not Rayse. What do you think? 17 minutes ago, Karger said: Malata does appear to be the real deal. Contrary to popular belief all it technically takes to make a radiant are a spren and human who trust each other enough to make it work. Spark seems to really hate humans and thought it was worth the possibility of death to get some payback. It would be very interesting to know more about this specific order. They seem to be less "good" than the other 9 21 minutes ago, Karger said: He is not a proto radiant. What is the difference between a proto radiant and a radiant?
Karger he/him Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, This_Is_Samer said: Maybe we will get more info in the back 5 about the Sunmaker? Maybe. 8 minutes ago, This_Is_Samer said: Do you feel the Diagram is also opposed to both groups or do they lean more on the side of Sons of Honor? The Diagram would make use of the Sons of Honor as would the GBs. The Sons of Honor from what we can tell were a combination of idiots and manipulative sociopaths with overblown senses of their own importance. The GBs respect power and their end goal is unclear. The diagram just wants a few humans to survive and is willing to do whatever it takes to make this happen. 11 minutes ago, This_Is_Samer said: But in that scene, Kal saw one of the Fused not Rayse. What do you think? Kal was looking at a voidspren. Spren depend on how they are viewed. It would make sense for Odium to view spren as mini-mes because that is what they are more or less. 13 minutes ago, This_Is_Samer said: It would be very interesting to know more about this specific order. They seem to be less "good" than the other 9 Depends who you ask. Brandon has descriptions for all ten orders on his website along with a test which tells you what you qualify as. They definitely have their problems but the only record we have of one is a woman who recorded how much she loved her husband and children. 14 minutes ago, This_Is_Samer said: What is the difference between a proto radiant and a radiant? Even when Dalinar has not sworn ideals he is getting close and his relationship with the stormfather reflects this. Amaram is nowhere near being a radiant nor has he ever been. 1
ftl Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, This_Is_Samer said: Regarding Malata, does that mean in your opinion that all Dustbringers have ulterior motives / their spren want vengeance for the recreance? We don't know; we've only interacted with Malata. Different spren of the same order might tend to think pretty similarly, but they're still individuals, and the first spren of an order to bond someone is probably pretty unique. So no way to tell yet how similar Spark is to other spren of that order, or how similar other Releasers are to Malata. My opinion is that whether someone has "ulterior motives" and whether align with Odium or not or not doesn't have much to do with their order, but more with themselves. I think over the next books we'll see a mixing - the battle lines will be drawn between team Odium and team Honor/Cultivation, but that won't always neatly map to radiant orders or species. We've already seen humans on both sides, and a small number of Singers on both sides (well, just Rlain). We've seen Skybreakers split, with most but not all of them for Odium at the moment. Malata's with the diagram, but that doesn't mean all Releasers will be. 1
This_Is_Samer Posted October 30, 2020 Author Posted October 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, ftl said: We don't know; we've only interacted with Malata. Different spren of the same order might tend to think pretty similarly, but they're still individuals, and the first spren of an order to bond someone is probably pretty unique. So no way to tell yet how similar Spark is to other spren of that order, or how similar other Releasers are to Malata. My opinion is that whether someone has "ulterior motives" and whether align with Odium or not or not doesn't have much to do with their order, but more with themselves. I think over the next books we'll see a mixing - the battle lines will be drawn between team Odium and team Honor/Cultivation, but that won't always neatly map to radiant orders or species. We've already seen humans on both sides, and a small number of Singers on both sides (well, just Rlain). We've seen Skybreakers split, with most but not all of them for Odium at the moment. Malata's with the diagram, but that doesn't mean all Releasers will be. I agree and that will be much more interesting this way
Honorless he/him Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) On 10/30/2020 at 1:25 AM, This_Is_Samer said: Hi guys, As I mentioned in a previous post (https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/92700-oathbringer-questions-upon-first-reread-prologue-to-chapter-18-33-questions/), I am rereading OB and taking notes of things I missed or I didn't understand completely. I already made a post about the first half of part 1, in addition to a previous questions post covering chapters 83 till the end of the book. I received amazing answers and explanations from the community here on both posts, which I am grateful for I am planning to continue these posts in order to learn more from the knowledgeable SA fans on this forum and hopefully provide a discussion that is informative to all members. My questions for this part are: 1- During Dalinar's flashback when he meets Evi's brother, her brother exclaims when he knows Alethkar has soulcasters, and says Iri doesn't. Any reason for this? Is soulcasting related to the Vorin church / Vorin kingdoms / East Roshar? We don't really know much about Iri or Soulcasters. Soulcasters are rare: Azir's bronze Soulcaster was famous iirc, Alethkar has multiple Soulcasters incl at least for grain, meat and stone, Kharbranth had none (why Jasnah had to step in to save Taravangian's... niece?), Liafor only had one which was kept by the royal family, now lost with Kaza. Apparently Iri and Rira didn't have any either. Alethela was the kingdom which kept the arts of war for the Desolations and home to quite a few Radiants, so the abundance of Soulcasters might be attributed to that. 2- When Shallan sees Mraize in Ialai's room, he tells her that he wants her to expunge the darkness from Urithiru so they seccure it in preparation for the Voidbringers. What did he mean? Why does he want to secure it for them? The darkness of Urithiru is referring to the Unmade Re-Shephir. He wanted her to chase it away or capture it for their own benefit. 3- Is it 100% confirmed that Kaladin killed Helaran? Or might he still be alive? It's confirmed. 4- I seem to forget the exact details but why did Amaram try to kidnap Taln? And why did Iyatil try to assassinate him? We don't know much of the Sons of Honor's motives and what information Amaram was acting on. Doubly true for the Ghostbloods. Amaram might simply have been seeking to secure a Herald, he and many of the Sons of Honor were devout Vorins and wanted to trigger the Desolations to have the Heralds and Radiants return to Roshar. Remember that Taln was not confirmed a Herald in-world at that time, most thought him a madman with only a few, such as Hoid, the Ghostbloods & the Sons of Honor knowing the truth. 5- Did Iyatil appear in OB? Do we know where is she? No, she did not and no, we don't 6- When the voidspren speaks to Kaladin, he notices that she has eyes like the Shin. Do we know of any connection between the Shin and the spren of the Fused? Shin eyes simply means their eyes lack epicanthic folds (by which I mean slanted Asian eyes [just in case anyone reading this thinks that's rude to say, I can say it, I have slanted Asian eyes. Also it's just physical features]). If someone is mentioned having Shin eyes or features, they are either Shin and if they are not and are also described as having mixed/indeterminate racial features, they are probably not modern Rosharans (either not modern Rosharans or not Rosharan at all) 7- It is mentioned that Taravangian lost his intelligence due to an illness. In fact, his fluctuating intelligence levels are due to the Nightwatcher's boon/curse, no? It's due to the Nightwatcher. He either has high intelligence & low compassion or low intelligence h high compassion. 8- Is Malata a knight radiant? If so, how come her spren bonded her when she has ulterior motives not in the best interest of her KR order? She is a Knight Radiant, a Dustbringer to be specific, though they preferred to be called Releasers. A lot of the Radiant spren are still very angry at humanity for the Recreance which killed many of them (creating Deadeyes Shardblades), the Dustbringer spren and Stoneward spren seem to be the angriest. Spark (Malata's spren) just wants revenge on humanity and have fun by breaking things (which is just the nature of their kind of spren) 9- Dalinar questions whether Malata holds a honor blade or a sprenblade. Do we know which is it? She holds a real sprenblade, her spren is named Spark, an Ashspren who Bond Dustbringers aka Releasers. 10- Any mention in OB on Redin, the bastard son of the departed king of Jah Keved? That would be the heterochromic eyed illegitimate son of the new ex king of Jah Keved after Hanavanar was assassinated by Szeth, and who passed on his kingship to Taravangian on his deathbed. He had a confusing social status in Vorin society due to being a bastard + half Lighteyes, half Darkeyes, who I thought was in a very interesting position. But sadly nope, no appearances by him. 11- Navani tells Dalinar that old magic never goes away. So what Cultivation did on Dalinar was not the old magic. What was it? The Old Magic had no known cases where the bane was overcome or lost. It was just the intertwined nature of Dalinar's Boon/Bane that his memories would eventually come back. It's still the Old Magic. 12- Pattern tells Shallan that the Dustbringers don't like being called by that name. Any reason for that? "Dustbringer" sounds very similar to "Voidbringer" and is a very ominous name in general. The Dustbringers argued that their fearsome powers caused them to be misunderstood and insisted upon the name "Releasers", which never caught on. 13- Why do the voidspren scream upon the use of fabrials in Kholinar? To alert the Fused that spanreeds were being used to send news or Soulcasters were being used to overcome the siege or Radiants had infiltrated the city. 14- In Chapter 27, before going to the bottom of Urithiru and discovering the Midnight Mother, Shallan and Pattern notice sketches in her sketchbook that she isn't aware of drawing before. Is it something that Lightweavers do? Or is something affecting Shallan's memory? The Unmade's presence was apparently causing eerie feelings among some who could sense it, which apparently counted the Lightweavers, Truthwatchers and some form of Investiture that Mraize had access to. 15- The Stormfather informs Dalinar that he has the ability to show the visions to whoever he wishes to. And then he tells him, I have the ability to choose bondsmiths that way. What does he mean? When he shows Navani, Fen and Gawx the visions, does he mean he made them Bondsmiths? The Stormfather had to choose a Bondsmith and had to show the Visions to prospective Bondsmiths. Those were things he was obliged to do, he could however also show the Visions to anyone of his choice. 16- In which cases, in which realms, and under which circumstances do shadows point in the wrong direction? Shadows seem to point in the wrong direction within the Cognitive Realm. Siah Aimians' shadows also point in the wrong direction, possibly because they are partially in the Cognitive, or so it has been theorised. 17- Are the black forms unleashed by Re-Shephir in Urithiru similar to the ones Dalinar fought in his visions? Yes, they are called Midnight Essence, and can function independently of Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother herself, who is responsible for their creation. 18- Do other unmade have the same black forms that can materialize, or are they just unleashed by Re-Shephir? Other Unmade have other powers. Nergaoul causes the Thrill in battle, Ashertmarn causes widespread debauchery and excess, Sja-Anat Corrupts spren, Moelach makes dead men see visions of the future, and so on. 19- Do all lighteyes on Roshar get soulcast into stone statues (such as Shallan's family members, Gavilar, etc...)? Only Lighteyes of a high enough Dahn. 20- Why doesn't Amaram hear Oathbringer scream when he holds it while Dalinar does? Dalinar is a Knight Radiant and Amaram isn't, so he can't hear the Deadeye spren. Oathbringer also seems to have become familiar with Dalinar so it only whimpers instead of screaming. 21- On her way down to the tunnels under Urithiru, before the fight with the Midnight Mother, Shallan sees a room with a mosaic depicting the heralds and the spren. She is surprised at the pagan symbolism in the Knights' Radiant city. Why does she considers these depictions to be pagan? Lots of things are considered pagan by the Vorins. Vorinism considers the Almighty to be the only god and the Heralds are considered his "angels" of sorts. Vorinism also renounced the Knights Radiant due to the Recreance. Depictions of Cultivation as the Mother of the World is considered pagan. The Nightwatcher is considered a pagan god, and Thaylen Passions are also considered remnants of paganism. 22- In the tunnels, Shallan tells Renarin that they both can feel the wrongness there but Dalinar can't. Does that have to do with their orders or with them specifically? With their Orders presumably. Historically, it was a Lightweaver who imprisoned Re-Shephir. Truthwatchers are close to the Lightweavers in the Double Eye diagram and share a Surge between them, so it's possible that's why Renarin could sense the Unmade. It's also possible that was due to Glys' Corruption. 23- Do we know if there are 9 or 10 unmade? There are nine: Ba-Ado-Mishram (responsible for the False Desolation), Sja-Anat "Taker of Secrets" (Corrupts spren), Re-Shephir "the Midnight Mother" (spawns Midnight Essence), Dai-Gonarthis "the Black Fisher" (responsible for the Scouring of Aimia), Yelig-Nar "Blightwind" (grants all 10 Surges but eventually consumes whoever Bonds him), Nergaoul (causes the Thrill), Moelach (the Death Rattles), Chemoarish "the Dustmother", Ashertmarn "the Heart of the Revel" (causes mindless indulgence) Our primary source, Hessi's Mythica, wasn't sure about Dai-Gonarthis but Jezrien as Ahu confirmed the Black Fisher as one of the Unmade. 24- Before attacking Re-Shephir, Shallan summons Pattern and she feels pain inside, describing it as "the pain of an ideal sworn but not yet overcome", what does that mean? She hadn't completely internalized the Truths she had spoken. 25- Can only Knights Radiants capture the unmade (Like the lightweaver who captured Re-Shephir and Dalinar caputring Nergaooul)? Hmm... I don't think so but it's probably a bit easier if you're a Radiant, as you're a target so it's easier for you to find them/for them to find you, and have some handy powers to keep yourself safe 26- Is Ulim bonded to anyone? Not so far as we know 27- Why does Ulim ask Demid to raise his palm before he took the shape of a human and stood on Demid's hand? Just to talk, probably to emphasize what he was saying. There's nothing deeper there. 28- Are the voidspren or the Fused the listener's gods? The Fused Quote Skaiiwalker Can you give me a hint about the Parshendi gods? It can't be Odium, right? Because it's plural... Brandon Sanderson No, it's not Odium. The Parshendi gods... *he paused here for a while* are closer to what the humans would call "Heralds". Footnote: Brandon is refering to the Fused. Teen Author Boot Camp (April 11, 2015) 29- What happened to Eshonai's shardblade which Venli took from the chasm Given to the Fused, I'd assume 30- When Kaladin sees the Fused for the first time in Revolar, he thinks they are the same as the Parshendi that Bridge Four fought in Narak. Is this correct? He probably recognized some of the bodies the Fused were using at the time, since those belonged to the Listeners of Narak 31- What is the difference between the Parshendi who killed Gavilar, the Parshendi after the Everstorm, the regular parshmen after the Everstorm and the Fused? A) The Parshendi, which is an exonym aka what others called them, they called themselves the Listeners, were a group/race of Singers living on the Shattered Plains. They escaped their gods during a prior Desolation (possibly the False Desolation, where Odium and the Fused weren't actually active but Ba-Ado-Mishram was supplying Voidlight to the Singers). Afterwards, Ba-Ado-Mishram was imprisoned by Melishi, her Connection to the Singers at the time of her imprisonment caused them to loose their Connection and Identity, causing a blockage in their Cognitive self. These are the Singers who came to be called the Parshmen and they were bred & used as slaves by the Rosharans till today. The Listeners escaped this fate by running away before the Unmade's capture. B ) The Parshendi after the Everstorm were influenced by Odium via his Voidspren which left their souls open to him. Mistborn spoilers Spoiler (like Hemalurgy left one open to Ruin) C) The newly awakened former Parshmen after the Everstorm had their Connections and Identity restored and regained their full cognitive faculties. 32- Shallan theorizes that Re-Shephir might have been human in ancient times. Why does she say that? Because Re-Shephir appeared curious about humanity, the Unmade felt to Shallan like she was missing something crucial to herself. This makes Shallan wonder if the Unmade were spren or humans before being Unmade. Sja-Anat does confirm that "they were made, then unmade" 33- Puuli mentions the Secret Island of the Origin. Does he mean Aimia? And why does he think Kelek lives in the Storm? Which religion teaches this? Island of the Origin is theorized to be a land in the far west, in the Ocean of Origins, from where the Highstorm supposedly originates. This was the subject of the story called Wandersail that Hoid told Kaladin. Jezrien and Kalak appear to be the most pertinently revered Heralds and were often conflated with the Stormfather. It's just things being forgotten and myths getting mixed up with time. The Natan people apparently chiefly revere Kalak, many Makabaki do the same for Jezrien. Here you go. I feel like we're spoiling the joy of discovering hidden things in Sanderson's works. Edited November 7, 2020 by Honorless
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