Postmortal consequences of hemalurgy with respect to a emotional Allomancy

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Suppose you are spiked to the point that a Soother or Rioter can control you. From Secret History we can conclude that death would unspike you. Then you become a Returned. Are you still vulnerable to control by emotional allomancy?

[Karger he/him]

Probably not?  A returned is a CS not a spiritual one.  They copy your self image not your soul.  Also your are now much more heavily invested.  That may make you harder to control.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Karger

[Dunkum he/him]

5 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Suppose you are spiked to the point that a Soother or Rioter can control you. From Secret History we can conclude that death would unspike you. Then you become a Returned. Are you still vulnerable to control by emotional allomancy?

could you become a returned under those circumstances?  its entirely plausible that Endowment would simply not send you back.  but my guess is that if it happened, then yes, you would be subject to control, but it might be harder to manage since the divine breath represents quite a bit of investiture, which should interfere with things.  possibly it would  interfere with the spikes and render it so you can't be controlled, but I doubt that.  it should, however interefere with the emotional allomancy, I would think, which means you'd likely need more soothers or rioters to accomplish the control

[Honorless he/him]

8 hours ago, Karger said:

Probably not?  A returned is a CS not a spiritual one.  They copy your self image not your soul.  Also your are now much more heavily invested.  That may make you harder to control.

I think a Cognitive Shadow still uses the same Spiritweb.

 

The holes in the Spiritweb should get repaired by the Divine Breath.

For comparison, Lifeless could become Returned:

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ReaderAt2046

What would happen if, right after someone died, they were made into a Lifeless, and then Endowment tried to Return that person?

Brandon Sanderson

Oooh...now that's a spicy one. Endowment's gift of a superpowered Breath would come down, strike the Lifeless, and all kinds of craziness would occur. You'd end up with a drab god, which would be hilarious.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

Here's a WoB, this is why I made the comparison between Lifeless & Hemalurgic entities:

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Oudeis16

If Bob the Awakener Awakened fifty straw men to dance around, then died, then Returned as FormerBob the Appropriately Named, would FormerBob be able to reclaim the Breath from the straw men in the normal fashion (once he learned the "Your Breath to Mine" Command)?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. He has enough of his original Identity, and the spiritual connection would remain.

sonofstannis

What if he instead were reincarnated as a lifeless? Is there a way he could reclaim it then?

Brandon Sanderson

Lifeless have someone else's investiture replacing their own. (As opposed to Returned, who are augmented.) Depends on how much of them is left, and if they can achieve sapience again, but I'd say this is unlikely.

WeiryWriter

What if the Lifeless is Awakened with their own Breath? (i.e. they gave it away right before they died and the person they gave it to then used it in the Awakening)

Brandon Sanderson

This has happened already in the world, and it does help.

-Nayrb

Did this happen "on screen"?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

/r/books AMA 2015 (July 30, 2015)

This is similar to what happens with Hemalurgy. You spike someone, tearing  a bit of their Spiritweb and then grafting it onto your own.

[Friendshipspren he/him]

On 7/14/2020 at 0:19 AM, Karger said:

Probably not?  A returned is a CS not a spiritual one.  They copy your self image not your soul.  Also your are now much more heavily invested.  That may make you harder to control.

Im pretty sure they CSs still have souls. They just lack physical bodies in most cases. 

[Karger he/him]

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Im pretty sure they CSs still have souls. They just lack physical bodies in most cases. 

The point of a CS is that your soul is not the original.  It is made from investiture that was used to copy your mind.