Books where energy can be created or destroyed

[Guest Father Bin]

Every fantasy book I have ever read sort of revolves around the idea that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So any books with magic systems that involve creating or destroying energy?

[Karger he/him]

Harry Potter?  You can make stuff from nothing and vanish other things.  It is not particularly uncommon. 

The Belgariad by David Eddings involves the ability to make but forbids destroying.  In the death gate cycle magic involves probability which allows either creation or destruction.  Could you be a bit more specific about what you are looking for.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Karger

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

7 minutes ago, Father Bin said:

Every fantasy book I have ever read sort of revolves around the idea that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So any books with magic systems that involve creating or destroying energy?

I don’t know if you’ve read it, but the Wheel of Time destroys matter several times. If you’re looking for the scientific ramifications of destroying/creating energy and matter, it doesn’t really go into it that much.

[Death spren]

In the “beyonders” Books to do stuff you have to say the edanomic words and then magic happens (;

[Frustration he/him]

On 6/22/2020 at 5:09 AM, Death spren said:

In the “beyonders” Books to do stuff you have to say the edanomic words and then magic happens (;

Not sure how much that is creating anything as it is directing what already exsists. Neither Rachel nor Maldor really make anything new, although there is less matter in glass than stone so something is happening.

[Ishar]

On 6/21/2020 at 5:41 PM, Father Bin said:

Every fantasy book I have ever read sort of revolves around the idea that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So any books with magic systems that involve creating or destroying energy?

I feel like most books with magic involve energy being created... Even Sanderson's books to an extent, depending on whether or not you consider investiture to be energy or to be its own thing. Or, for example, The Name of the Wind, which really has 2 magic systems (symmetry and naming), and while symmetry follows preservation of energy, naming does not (Pretty much every time somebody manipulates the wind, they are adding or removing kinetic energy from a system, and it never indicates where that energy goes or comes from). I would also be curious to see a list of the books you are referring to in which preservation of energy is followed, because I can think of a lot of books where there is limited power for magic, but that power generates from seemingly nothing. Also, if I had to guess, the reason why so many books follow preservation of energy (at least to some extent) is so that they can't just use sudden new abilities to move the plot along, and so that the characters are actually limited in what they can do. A lot of books also toss the idea that energy can't be created or destroyed into the system, but then do things that if you actually think to much about would absolutely require creation or destruction of energy. I guess my point is, the reason why you may have trouble finding books that blatantly disregard preservation of energy is that the level of power the characters will have would be too difficult to really limit. Anyway, here is a list of books that I can think of off the top of my head that involve creation or destruction of energy (to the best of my physics understanding):

The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss

The Demon King by Cinda Williams Chima

The Heir Chronicles by Cinda Williams Chima

Eragon by Christopher Paolini

The Ruin of Kings by Jenn Lyons (I can't think of specific examples in this one, but it has a totally different set of rules than actual physics)

The Red Queen by Victoria Aveyard

The Grishaverse (a bunch of books) by Leigh Bardugo

The Cruel Prince by Holly Black

Renegades by Marissa Meyer

Fablehaven by Brandon Mull

Gone by Michael Grant (A significant part of this one's plot is the complete breaking of all laws of physics... so...)

Steelheart

The Darkest Minds by Alexandra Bracken

The Accidental Hero by Matt Myklusch

The Alchemist by Michael Scott

Edited July 28, 2020 by Ishar

[Frustration he/him]

On 7/28/2020 at 0:50 PM, Ishar said:

I feel like most books with magic involve energy being created... Even Sanderson's books to an extent, depending on whether or not you consider investiture to be energy or to be its own thing.

What Cosmere book breaks it?

[Ishar]

On 7/29/2020 at 1:52 PM, Frustration said:

What Cosmere book breaks it?

Well, Cosmere follows preservation of investiture, which is slightly different, and could be argued to be a different thing, even though the meaning is still the same. Also, I have been thinking about it, and there are definitely some areas where things don't, to the best of my knowledge of the cosmere, add up to this. For example, perfectly cut gemstones appear to break the law of preservation of investiture (this is something I would like to get a WoB on, and if one already exists, please let me know), since they can hold stormlight without leaking, and yet they still give off light, and that energy/investiture in the form of light has to come from somewhere, but we know it doesn't come from the stormlight leaking out of the gem as it does with other gemstones. My main point though was that the Cosmere's law of Preservation of Investiture supersedes Preservation of energy, even though it could pretty easily be argued that it is just the same thing, hence the "depending on whether or not you consider investiture to be energy or to be its own thing" part of my statement. Also, the Reckoners most definitely does not follow Preservation of Energy.