Might Odium think that the Sibling is dead?

[Ripheus23]

We've been told that the Sibling is slumbering, but might this appear to be death from a given perspective? What if Odium and his team did something that led to the Sibling sleeping? Then he might think that, "We killed you!"

Bonus theory: Dalinar, as a Bondsmith, has a strong relationship with the Stormfather and an indirect/partial/w/e relationship with the Nightwatcher (in that Cultivation gave him his boon, something that otherwise would've been done by the Nightwatcher). Let's suppose each Bondsmith spren correlates with a Realm: the Stormfather with the Spiritual Realm, the Nightwatcher with the Physical Realm, and the Sibling with the Cognitive Realm. Then, when Dalinar unites the Realms, he might draw on all the Bondsmith spren. Now what if the Sibling is the unity of the other two, maybe as a child of the two Shards, or a child of the Bondsmith spren of those Shards, or what? Then, "I am Unity," might've been the Sibling speaking through Dalinar.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Ripheus23

[Karger he/him]

Odium seems interested in the tower.  If the sibling were dead then I doubt Odium would care how much team radiant figured out about it.

[Quantus he/him]

14 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

We've been told that the Sibling is slumbering, but might this appear to be death from a given perspective? What if Odium and his team did something that led to the Sibling sleeping? Then he might think that, "We killed you!"

I dont think so, personally. As a Shard that exists mostly in the Spiritual Realm, and a guy that made pseudo-spren Fused from ordinary people, he should have the vantage to be able to know all about the practical differences between the Sibling Slumbering vs Dead, and all about the Deadeye state (assuming that's more or less what the Sibling is stuck in).  And I really dont think the Uniting the Realm ability of dalinar is going to involve all three Godspren, since I lean heavily toward the theory that it's only possible because of the way the Stormfather has Merged with Tanavast's cognitive shadow.  

14 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

Bonus theory: Dalinar, as a Bondsmith, has a strong relationship with the Stormfather and an indirect/partial/w/e relationship with the Nightwatcher (in that Cultivation gave him his boon, something that otherwise would've been done by the Nightwatcher). Let's suppose each Bondsmith spren correlates with a Realm: the Stormfather with the Spiritual Realm, the Nightwatcher with the Physical Realm, and the Sibling with the Cognitive Realm. Then, when Dalinar unites the Realms, he might draw on all the Bondsmith spren. Now what if the Sibling is the unity of the other two, maybe as a child of the two Shards, or a child of the Bondsmith spren of those Shards, or what? Then, "I am Unity," might've been the Sibling speaking through Dalinar.

I think I would argue that the Stormfather is more associated with the physical realm since he represents a Physical Phenomena (the Highstorm) while the Nightwatcher is more Spiritual since her Old Magic seems to mostly boil down to direct Spiritweb manipulation.

[Honorless he/him]

Agreed with Karger and Quantus, Odium seems very interested in the tower's full array of features not going back up, those came from the Sibling, which means that he's aware that they're still in play.

Why would the three godspren correlate to the three realms (also I'd switch Nightwatcher to Cognitive and Sibling to Physical, Stormfather's okay-ish with the Spiritual)

What Dalinar did on Thaylen Field, I think was become a Sliver of Honor and hold a large fraction of Honor's power: Unity being his interpretation of the Shard's Intent and provoking Odium to say that he already killed him (Honor). This was most likely due to The Stormfather becoming Honor's Cognitive Shadow.

Why would the Sibling speak through Dalinar? His Bond is with the Stormfather, those are two separate spren

[Ripheus23]

44 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Sibling Slumbering vs Dead, and all about the Deadeye state (assuming that's more or less what the Sibling is stuck in)

Hmm, but wouldn't being in a Deadeye state be similar to... being dead? I mean for spren.

17 minutes ago, R J said:

Agreed with Karger and Quantus, Odium seems very interested in the tower's full array of features not going back up, those came from the Sibling, which means that he's aware that they're still in play.

Maybe he wants the Unmade to power Urithiru.

17 minutes ago, R J said:

Why would the three godspren correlate to the three realms

For cosmere numerology reasons, if nothing else, I suppose.

18 minutes ago, R J said:

Why would the Sibling speak through Dalinar? His Bond is with the Stormfather, those are two separate spren

IDK, I think it's been said that a person can bond several spren? One way to have Dalinar Ascend without becoming a normal Sliver (well, if there's such a thing as a normal Sliver) would be for him to bond all three Bondsmith spren, maybe. Or: bonding all three would be the Rosharan equivalent of

taking the power of the Well of Ascension

, or what.

[Quantus he/him]

3 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

Hmm, but wouldn't being in a Deadeye state be similar to... being dead? I mean for spren.

 

I meant literally dead more as in permanently Shattered/Destroyed, whereas Dead-eyes still walk around (in shadesmar) and interact and frm Bonds and whatnot.  And the Stormfather presumably used the terms "slumbering" for a reason.  Since there was a Bondsmith active around the time of the Recreance, my best guess is that said Bondsmith was bonded to The Sibling and that his Slumbering state is more equivalent to deadeyes.  

[Ripheus23]

What would it mean for a spren to slumber, though? How much different would this be, sprenwise, compared to being dead? (How often is the blankness of some sleep states compared to death anyway?)

[Karger he/him]

10 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

What would it mean for a spren to slumber, though? How much different would this be, sprenwise, compared to being dead? (How often is the blankness of some sleep states compared to death anyway?)

Spren don't usually sleep but Syl was slumbering for some time.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Odium seems interested in the tower.  If the sibling were dead then I doubt Odium would care how much team radiant figured out about it.

That is a strong statement. Let's compare resources spent on attacking enemy strongholds.

• Thaylen City: himself, Yelig-Nar, Nergaoul, Thunderclasts, many Fused, an army, a fleet, infiltration agents
• Kholinar: Ashertmarn, Yelig-Nar, Sja-Anat, Fused, an army, voidspren
• Urithiru: an army and an agent

And the Midnight Mother was already in Urithiru. How much support did she get? Beaten by a single unexperienced Lightweaver and a small troop of soldiers

[Karger he/him]

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

That is a strong statement. Let's compare resources spent on attacking enemy strongholds.

I was referring to the fact that the one bit of instruction he gave Mr T is "keep track of how much these guys figure out about the tower" at the end of OB.  However to your other points.

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Thaylen City: himself, Yelig-Nar, Nergaoul, Thunderclasts, many Fused, an army, a fleet, infiltration agents

Those were all really there for Dalinar.  To get him to submit he wanted Dalinar desperate and without any kind of conventional or even emotional support.  The two unmade took care of his army.  The thunderclast could delay any radiants and threaten the city.  The infiltration agents prevent Dalinar from reversing things.  He came himself to checkmate.

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Kholinar: Ashertmarn, Yelig-Nar, Sja-Anat, Fused, an army, voidspren

Ashertman may have already been there.  The queen seems to have attracted and bonded Yelig-Nar by herself and was effectively offering herself as experimentation.  The fused were needed to gather and train his army which he will need in the future.  Ditto for the voidspren.  Sja-Anat is their to prevent any surprise attacks by radiant forces. 

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Urithiru: an army and an agent

He did not necessarily know about or pay any attention to the diagram.  He was working on Dalinar at the time.  In fact Mr T designed opening the gates as a way of getting Odium's attention.  At the time the tower was secondary since if Dalinar yielded it would likely become irrelevent.

16 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

And the Midnight Mother was already in Urithiru. How much support did she get? Beaten by a single unexperienced Lightweaver and a small troop of soldiers

Odium could not send any support because he could not.  Urithiru is designed to work against him. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Karger