Eye Color Listings

[maxal]

Ah, I apologize for misinterpreting you then. 

 

As a note, this is why I said that Elsecallers weren't nearly as powerful as people think they are. Soulcasting is hard enough with a stationary object, but with a moving object trying to attack you? That's near impossible! Elsecalling is also stating to be imprecise, though a helpful method of getting around.

 

It's alright. I was also ranting on Kaladin being slightly too great in that regard as well

 

I agree with you about Elsecallers. I believe Jasnah mentioned they were mostly scholars, such as she. The can obviously defend themselves, but I do not foresee them on the battle field. Our warriors will probably turned out to be the Windrunners, the Skybreakers, the Stonewards, the Dustbringers and the Edgedancers. Whereas some members of the other orders may take part in some battle or even held field command, it probably won't be their primary goal.

[Rybal]

I can't help feeling that Kaladin isn't nearly so far along in his progression as we seem to think. I'm very interested to see him progress further and REALLY start to understand all of the aspects of his Surgebinding.

 

In WoK, he used very basic lashings instinctively, while not really working on it that much. At the Tower, it was primarily Stormlight and not the actual lashings.

 

Again, even in WoR, he was using things in a very basic manner. Some of what he was doing was based on what he saw Szeth do, but even most of that was technically basic. "Send 'x force' in 'x direction.'"

 

Even that required a good deal of time to get to a point of proficiency.

 

Using Shallan's failure to soulcast fire is a different story. Soulcasting has different requirements and possibilities, many of which we still aren't familiar with. It isn't as direct.

[Pathfinder]

I also think to expand on the different difficulty of the surges, I came up with possibly a realmatic analogy. With gravity you are not changing its identity, you are changing its state. So it would be like taking water, and freezing it. It is still water, but it operates differently. So gravity is still gravity, just it makes you lighter, heavier, or in another direction. Soulcasting on the other hand actually changes the objects identity. So a glass becomes a block of wood. It not only operates differently, but it IS fundamentally different. So basically my example is not to prove or disprove, but just to further expand on the points already made with my own little analogy lol. 

[11thorderknight]

Two things, in response to the two divergent thoughts being discussed here:

 

1. Surge difficulty - I think all the surges are equally easy to use, but some are harder than others to use usefully. Here's what I mean; with Gravitation, you pick which direction you want to be down and then you fall. If you're bad at picking directions, or switching them quickly enough, and you use it in a tight space, you'll hit a wall. But you'll still have "used" Gravitation. With Transformation, you "look" into Shadesmar. We know that part is easy; Shallan did it once by accident, and a second time having no clue what she was doing. But for it to be "useful"? You have to organize Shadesmar around yourself so that you're not flailing, find the Cognitive representation of the object you want to Soulcast, then convince it to accept your stormlight to change into whatever you want it to be. Significantly more complicated. I imagine that Transportation is even more complicated, since even Jasnah doesn't have much of a grasp on it. Same holds true for Abrasion. Lift is pretty good at sliding around on her butt, but according to Nalan, the Edgedancers basically figure-skated their way around battlefields. She's nowhere close. But it's not because she can't "make herself Awesome" it's just because she hasn't had as much practice at applying the Surge in that manner. 

 

2. Eye color - I think, ultimately, that a full-fledged Radiant will have eyes the color of their respective gemstone. For evidence, we have the Radiants from the Starfalls vision, as well as Kaladin himself. However, while it's quite plausible that the idea of lighteyes as nobility stems from the fact that the Radiants children had light eyes, it's equally possible that it stems from the fact that the people who picked up Shardblades after the Recreance had their eyes lightened. This would explain why Moash's eyes are tan; his brown eyes simply became a light shade of their original color. It also explains why all the lighteyes' eyes are always described as "light green" or "light blue" or "light violet". 

 

The more interesting question concerns Shallan. Since she's a level ahead of Kaladin, she should have dark red or violet eyes at this point. It could be something as simple as the fact that we haven't seen her in the third person since her upleveling, and therefore there hasn't been anyone to mention the change. If so, we'll probably get a mention of it early in book 3. Or, it could be that she won't get there until her final Truth has been spoken, since for her especially, the Surgebinding is integral to her broken-ness. What about Jasnah though? My theory is that she hadn't upleveled much at all since her Bonding, and only got to level 3 at the instant of her assassination. I really don't think she could have had a Shardblade and still gotten herself cut up. So, we'll have to see what happens with her eyes as well.

[maxal]

2. Eye color - I think, ultimately, that a full-fledged Radiant will have eyes the color of their respective gemstone. For evidence, we have the Radiants from the Starfalls vision, as well as Kaladin himself. However, while it's quite plausible that the idea of lighteyes as nobility stems from the fact that the Radiants children had light eyes, it's equally possible that it stems from the fact that the people who picked up Shardblades after the Recreance had their eyes lightened. This would explain why Moash's eyes are tan; his brown eyes simply became a light shade of their original color. It also explains why all the lighteyes' eyes are always described as "light green" or "light blue" or "light violet".

 

What bothers me is the fact lighteyes eyes do not change color when they bond a shardblade. They do not go lighter: they stay the same. Onlt darkeyes eyes will go light and even that most people thought it was a rumor. It makes me think there is something special about the lighteyes. It may be lighteyes Radiants will not see their eyes change color.

[Swimmingly]

Maybe there is a change to their eye colour, but it's just small enough that people don't mention it? In a world of millions of people, there are only a couple hundred of these things - small changes might go unnoticed, especially eye colour, which can seem much different depending on the light.

[maxal]

Maybe there is a change to their eye colour, but it's just small enough that people don't mention it? In a world of millions of people, there are only a couple hundred of these things - small changes might go unnoticed, especially eye colour, which can seem much different depending on the light.

 

I am sure if it were the case, our main protagonists would have talked about it.

[Swimmingly]

I am sure if it were the case, our main protagonists would have talked about it.

Not if it was irrelevant to the plot, their personalities, or the magic system in general. Still, it's something to ask Brandon.

[wolveryne]

What bothers me is the fact lighteyes eyes do not change color when they bond a shardblade. They do not go lighter: they stay the same. Onlt darkeyes eyes will go light and even that most people thought it was a rumor. It makes me think there is something special about the lighteyes. It may be lighteyes Radiants will not see their eyes change color.

Maybe its the actual, living bond and living according to the divine attributes that turns the eyes to the color of the Order. If that was true, then the "dead" blades would only change the current eyes to a lighter version or, in the case of a lighteyes, not at all.

 

The eye changing of darkeyes is only rumor because it happens so rarely.

 

Maybe Kaladin is the only "current" Radiant that is living close enough to both his Orders divine attributes for his eyes to change. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by wolveryne

[11thorderknight]

Maybe its the actual, living bond and living according to the divine attributes that turns the eyes to the color of the Order. If that was true, then the "dead" blades would only change the current eyes to a lighter version or, in the case of a lighteyes, not at all.

 

The eye changing of darkeyes is only rumor because it happens so rarely.

 

Maybe Kaladin is the only "current" Radiant that is living close enough to both his Orders divine attributes for his eyes to change. 

 

This. However, we do know that's it's not just rumor - Moash did become lighteyes. I think it is significant though, that his eyes basically just turned a lighter version of the original color, rather than becoming blue, or green, or whatever. 

 

Makes me wonder: if Szeth were Alethi, would his "dark green" eyes make him a lighteyes or a darkeyes?

[Pathfinder]

This. However, we do know that's it's not just rumor - Moash did become lighteyes. I think it is significant though, that his eyes basically just turned a lighter version of the original color, rather than becoming blue, or green, or whatever. 

 

Makes me wonder: if Szeth were Alethi, would his "dark green" eyes make him a lighteyes or a darkeyes?

It would make him darkeyes. I forget the bridgeman's name but there was one that claimed to have dark violet eyes, and I THINK Kal even admitted in the right light you could kind of see it. So having violet eyes were not enough to be lighteyes, it had to be LIGHT violet

[Terisen]

This. However, we do know that's it's not just rumor - Moash did become lighteyes. I think it is significant though, that his eyes basically just turned a lighter version of the original color, rather than becoming blue, or green, or whatever. 

 

Makes me wonder: if Szeth were Alethi, would his "dark green" eyes make him a lighteyes or a darkeyes?

 

Looks like we have a little inconsistency here.  I remembered Moash having a different color of eyes and I was right.  In the Way of Kings, it's described this way:

 

 

He glanced to the side, noticing that Moash hadn't left with the other three.  The narrow-faced man had dark green eyes and brain hair fleck with black.

 

But in Words of Radiance, we get

 

 

His eyes...they were lighter in color; tan instead of deep brown as they'd once been.

 

Either Kaladin is mistaken about Moash's previous eye color or we've just got ourselves an old fashioned error in the text (not unheard of in a story this large).

[11thorderknight]

Looks like we have a little inconsistency here.  I remembered Moash having a different color of eyes and I was right.  In the Way of Kings, it's described this way:

 

 

But in Words of Radiance, we get

 

 

Either Kaladin is mistaken about Moash's previous eye color or we've just got ourselves an old fashioned error in the text (not unheard of in a story this large).

 

 

Good find! My money is on an inconsistency, and I would think the Words of Radiance text is the proper one, since it makes a point of the eyes becoming a lighter shade of the same color. 

[11thorderknight]

In all this eye color talk, we've neglected two extremely important characters whose eye color we have had described: Shalash and Taln'. (Yes, I'm referring to him as Taln prime, since there is controversy over exactly who he is).

 

In the Baxil's Mistress interlude, Shalash is described as having very light violet eyes. At first I thought this was inconsistent with her order, but apparently "violet" is also used to describe the color of in-world garnets (I might have used burgundy, or dark red, but whatever). So, we know that Shalash has light eyes that match the color of her order. I don't believe that we ever have Nalan's eyes described, or Jezrien's.

 

We do, however, get 'Taln''s eyes described; they're very dark brown. So, the color might be correct, but definitely not the lightness. Either this is a big hint that Taln' is not actually Taln, or it's a hint that he's missing whatever it is that gives the other heralds the eye lightness. Like his eyes are the right color, but went dark somehow. 

[maxal]

Not if it was irrelevant to the plot, their personalities, or the magic system in general. Still, it's something to ask Brandon.

 

We have seen many protagonists being bounded and unbounded with shardblades.... If there eyes were changing colors, I suppose it would have been mentioned. You are right tough, we should ask Brandon to settle the matter.

[Dahak]

I've not heard anywhere that using stormlight causes  their bodies to crystallize, where does that come from?

 

 

The description of the soulcasting ardents perhaps?

 

 

Also, Kaladin might just be naturally very talented. He learned the spear in much less time than usual too so he could just be a quick learner.

 

He actually notices that much of his combat skills are magic rather than skill.

 

It appears for him at least enhancement of skill is a side effect of his bond.

 

 

Incidently Kaladin mentions there being at the minimum prejudice against red eyed people, in the conversation about the bridgeman with the dark violet eyes.

 

[Sphinx]

Some stuff from here is interesting, particularly

 

Or, and another thing—what happens if a lighteyed child is born to darkeyes or even slaves? Which should happen often enough, given that male nobles seem rather promiscous. Anyway, are such people automatically of tenth dahn?

The situation is very much taken into account in these sorts of cases. Normally—if there is such a thing as normal with this—one question that’s going to come up is are they heterochromatic. Because you can end up with one eye of each color, both eyes light, or both eyes dark. That’s going to influence it a lot, what happens here. Do you have any heirs? Was your child born lighteyed? This sort of thing is treated the same way that a lot of societies treated illegitimate children. The question of, do I need this person as an heir? Are they born darkeyed? Can I shuffle them off somewhere? Set them up, declare them to be this certain rank. Are you high enough rank to do that? Are you tenth dahn yourself? What happens with all of these things? There’s no single answer to that. The most common thing that’s probably going to happen is that they are born heterochromatic. Then you’re in this weird place where you’re probably declared to be tenth dahn, but you may have way more power and authority than that if one parent is of a very high dahn, just as a bastard child in a royal line would be treated in our world.

[Moogle]

I've updated the OP with more.

 

As noted, there are two major contradictions:

 

1) Moash.

 

 

He glanced to the side, noticing that Moash hadn’t left with the other three. The narrow-faced man had dark green eyes and brown hair flecked with black.
(WoK)

 

 

Tall and solid, Moash had a scar on his chin but no slave brand on his forehead. He walked straight-backed with his chin up. Save for those dark brown eyes of his, he could have passed for an officer.
(WoR)

 

2) Elhokar.

 

 

The king beamed. His golden Shardplate gleamed in the noonday sun; he had his faceplate up, revealing light yellow eyes, a strong nose, and a clean-shaven face that was almost too handsome, with its full lips, broad forehead, and firm chin. Gavilar had looked like that too, before he’d suffered a broken nose and that terrible scar on his chin.

(WoK)

 

 

Dalinar turned to meet the king’s eyes. Pale green. Like his father’s.

(WoR)

 

I'll put them in the typo thread.