Elsecaller Oaths(based on Jasnah's actions, Maximin Strategy, and Political Theory)

[Karger he/him]

Alright this one apparently is next.  Brandon is updating us so I have to update my theories.  Info on elsecallers below spoiler for length.

Spoiler

Elsecaller oaths are, like those of the Lightweavers or Skybreakers, themed toward the individual. In this case, the theme is progress—becoming better with each oath, seeking to explore their true potential and reach it. Because of this, the Order is open to many different types, so long as they want to improve themselves.

Thoughtful, careful, and cautious, the Elsecallers are generally regarded as the wisest of the Radiants. They seek self-improvement and personal betterment in their lives, but aren’t limited to one specific theme or set of Ideals. This makes them one of the most open and welcoming of orders, though they do tend to attract those who are less flamboyant. They have their share of scholars, and often a large number of theologians, but also attract those who are interested in leadership. They are good at encouraging others, but some are known to set their sights upon the things they want and then seize them. In the Knights Radiant, they tend to be among the best tacticians, and are logistical geniuses, aided in part by their abilities to create food and water for armies, but also their ability to move in and out of Shadesmar.

This part

Quote

Elsecaller oaths are, like those of the Lightweavers or Skybreakers, themed toward the individual. In this case, the theme is progress—becoming better with each oath, seeking to explore their true potential and reach it. Because of this, the Order is open to many different types, so long as they want to improve themselves.

Indicates that Elsecallers have verity in their oaths centered around self improvement.  This leads me to the conclusion that like the Windrunners and the Skybreakers both groups have similar ideologies that look quite different(much to Jasnah and Shallan's mutual chagrin).  I thinking running with this parallel could actually be quite helpful.  Windrunners and Skybreakers are both ultimately devoted to peace(as I see it anyway).  Both soldiers and law enforcement are keepers of the peace in one way or another.  Elsecallers and Lightweavers are about both self progression.  I also think in both cases the impulse for this protection comes from their reaction to some kind of trauma.  According to Pattern Shallan dealing with trauma by lying is what drew him to her.  I think from her prologue that we can see that Jasnah deals with trauma by logic and analysis(we also know that inkspren prefer stable logical people).  This could inform a more accurate second ideal.  Something along the lines of "thought against impulse?"

For a third ideal I think a general fairness principle still applies.  "Treat all fairly including self?"

I actually think the fourth ideal still holds.  I think an Elsecaller should look for the best solution not just a workable one and that doing so is very much in keeping with Brandon's statement of their ideology.

My fifth ideal was always tentative.  I am actually drawing a blank for now.  I will look forward to your comments.

As an aside

13 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

So maybe, just like Lightweaevers, Elsecallers don't have a fixed set of morals follow, their oaths are instead about their personal actions and decisions. In essence the path of each Elsecaller is find its on way to progress, not rely in a shared code of values to make that progress

I don't think so.  They seem a bit too orderly for that.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Karger

[+Q10fanatic]

What do you make of the fact that the tagline Ideal on the Radiant info page seems drawn directly from the 2d ideal of the orders? So the Elsecaller 2nd ideal could be along the lines of "I will reach my potential by mastering my emotions."

[Honorless he/him]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:50 PM, Karger said:

Alright this one apparently is next.  Brandon is updating us so I have to update my theories.  Info on elsecallers below spoiler for length.

  Reveal hidden contents

Elsecaller oaths are, like those of the Lightweavers or Skybreakers, themed toward the individual. In this case, the theme is progress—becoming better with each oath, seeking to explore their true potential and reach it. Because of this, the Order is open to many different types, so long as they want to improve themselves.

Thoughtful, careful, and cautious, the Elsecallers are generally regarded as the wisest of the Radiants. They seek self-improvement and personal betterment in their lives, but aren’t limited to one specific theme or set of Ideals. This makes them one of the most open and welcoming of orders, though they do tend to attract those who are less flamboyant. They have their share of scholars, and often a large number of theologians, but also attract those who are interested in leadership. They are good at encouraging others, but some are known to set their sights upon the things they want and then seize them. In the Knights Radiant, they tend to be among the best tacticians, and are logistical geniuses, aided in part by their abilities to create food and water for armies, but also their ability to move in and out of Shadesmar.

This part

Indicates that Elsecallers have verity in their oaths centered around self improvement.  This leads me to the conclusion that like the Windrunners and the Skybreakers both groups have similar ideologies that look quite different(much to Jasnah and Shallan's mutual chagrin).  I thinking running with this parallel could actually be quite helpful.  Windrunners and Skybreakers are both ultimately devoted to peace(as I see it anyway).  Both soldiers and law enforcement are keepers of the peace in one way or another.  Elsecallers and Lightweavers are about both self progression.  I also think in both cases the impulse for this protection comes from their reaction to some kind of trauma.  According to Pattern Shallan dealing with trauma by lying is what drew him to her.  I think from her prologue that we can see that Jasnah deals with trauma by logic and analysis(we also know that inkspren prefer stable logical people).  This could inform a more accurate second ideal.  Something along the lines of "thought against impulse?"

For a third ideal I think a general fairness principle still applies.  "Treat all fairly including self?"

I actually think the fourth ideal still holds.  I think an Elsecaller should look for the best solution not just a workable one and that doing so is very much in keeping with Brandon's statement of their ideology.

My fifth ideal was always tentative.  I am actually drawing a blank for now.  I will look forward to your comments.

I like them 

For the Third, how about "I will hold myself to the same standards that I hold others"

[Karger he/him]

Just now, R J said:

For the Third, how about "I will hold myself to the same standards that I hold others"

Problem is that trying to do so is inherently unfair.

[Honorless he/him]

Just now, Karger said:

Problem is that trying to do so is inherently unfair.

Hmm? What do you mean? 

[Karger he/him]

1 minute ago, R J said:

Hmm? What do you mean? 

People are different they have different capabilities, desires, needs, and beliefs.  Treating all people the same is at best a crude approximation of trying to do right.  For example is it reasonable to make everyone take the SAT in the same amount of time?  What about people with less opportunities to study or who process information more slowly?

[Honorless he/him]

6 minutes ago, Karger said:

People are different they have different capabilities, desires, needs, and beliefs. Treating all people the same is at best a crude approximation of trying to do right.  For example is it reasonable to make everyone take the SAT in the same amount of time?  What about people with less opportunities to study or who process information more slowly?

Huh, didn't look at it that way, that makes sense

I've heard the fairness does not always mean equality quote, but this was really well-put & down-to-earth

Edited June 12, 2020 by R J