nightwatcher Bonding the Nightwatcher

[Honorless he/him]

Hello, first post, be gentle with me

We don't really know that the Nightwatcher is a Bondsmith spren. It's a good theory, seems widely accepted and quite probable. But so far as I know, no in-book quote or WoB confirms her as such. I think it's likely that she probably is one of the three Bondsmith spren, as a counterpart to the Stormfather.

She already has a magic system (-ish?) associated with her, the Boon and Curse: granting a wish but with a curse attached alongside it. Couldn't someone also ask her for the boon of being granted Radiancy (is that the word?). Has anyone in Roshar's history? Could she grant other spren bonds, lower spren or spren of the other Orders? And assuming she is a Radiant spren, could someone ask to bond with her? Could it be how she herself is supposed to be bonded?

Could the next Bondsmith have to trek to the Valley and ask for the boon of bonding her? What could be the Curse to accompany such a Boon? Would they need to speak the Ideals or would the Curse, sort of, supplant the words?

Edited October 6, 2019 by Honorless

[LopentheHerdazian]

It's a good theory. However I think that in one of the WoB he refers to the nightwatcher as one of the bondspren. 

It would be cool if the bondsmith for her had to wish for the bond. However on the wishing for radiance part it's more complicated. I expect that one of the invigorators would have asked for it.

However the nightwatcher doesn't grant any wish. She just takes the desires and then grants any wish or boon she thinks they deserve. So I guess that she simply didn't grant that kind of wish.

[The Sovereign]

At Jordancon '16 Brandon confirmed that the Nightwatcher is on the same level as the Stormfather:

Quote

Questioner

Speaking of the Stormfather, would the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren be on the same level of spren as the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is.

Questioner

So the Nightwatcher is a spren you'd say?

Brandon Sanderson

The Nightwatcher-- I mean, they call the Nightwatcher a spren. Everyone in the books thinks the Nightwatcher is a spren. That's what they would call-- that's what they would call, if they knew what Honor was, they would call Honor a spren. A spren is Investiture that is alive.

Bystander

Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

So they would call Nightblood a spren. They would call-- That's the word for what all of these things are. They would probably've called Adonalsium a spren…

Moderator

What would Hoid call one of those?

Brandon Sanderson

What would Hoid call the Nightwatcher? *laughter* What would Hoid call one of what?

Moderator

Yeah what would Hoid call the Nightwatcher?

Brandon Sanderson

Um… *long pause/laughter*

Moderator

If Hoid were to use a non-proper noun?

Brandon Sanderson

Unpleasant names. *laughter*

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

[Honorless he/him]

3 minutes ago, The Sovereign said:

At Jordancon '16 Brandon confirmed that the Nightwatcher is on the same level as the Stormfather:

 

Same level, yes. Nothing about her definitively being one of the three though.

I think there's another WoB that says Cusicesh is connected to the Sibling but not in the way that they were thinking. So Cusicesh probably isn't one of the three. Wonder what the Sibling is like, then. Ugh, waiting for the next books is killing me. 

[Aon Tia she/her]

44 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Same level, yes. Nothing about her definitively being one of the three though.

I think there's another WoB that says Cusicesh is connected to the Sibling but not in the way that they were thinking. So Cusicesh probably isn't one of the three. Wonder what the Sibling is like, then. Ugh, waiting for the next books is killing me. 

I think same level would imply that she is one of the three. And dalinar has also asked stormfather, how many are there like you, there is you and there is nightwatcher, anyone else? And stormfather replied that there one other. They are slumbering 

so I think it also proves that nightwatcher is indeed one of the three. 

Cusicesh is related to the sibling but is at a slightly lower level than these three? Wow. 

Totally agree this book can not come any sooner

[Honorless he/him]

51 minutes ago, The traveller said:

I think same level would imply that she is one of the three. And dalinar has also asked stormfather, how many are there like you, there is you and there is nightwatcher, anyone else? And stormfather replied that there one other. They are slumbering 

so I think it also proves that nightwatcher is indeed one of the three. 

Cusicesh is related to the sibling but is at a slightly lower level than these three? Wow. 

Totally agree this book can not come any sooner

Dalinar asked if Stormfather and Cultivation were two, which Stormfather found hilarious. He told Dalinar that he'd like to see him try.

I know right, plus this book would show Willshapers AND more of Odium's forces, hopefully more info on Voidbinding

[Honorless he/him]

2 hours ago, LopentheHerdazian said:

It's a good theory. However I think that in one of the WoB he refers to the nightwatcher as one of the bondspren. 

It would be cool if the bondsmith for her had to wish for the bond. However on the wishing for radiance part it's more complicated. I expect that one of the invigorators would have asked for it.

However the nightwatcher doesn't grant any wish. She just takes the desires and then grants any wish or boon she thinks they deserve. So I guess that she simply didn't grant that kind of wish.

Invigorators?

How else would someone bond her then? Does she choose somehow, wouldn't that would mean she doesn't always stay at the Valley waiting for wishmakers

Yeah, I remember that part from Baxil's interlude where he and Av discuss the Nightwatcher. However, I can't imagine that no one, in the history of Roshar, asked her to be turned into a Surgebinder. I wonder what she gave them as boon and curse, and if there were cases where she found the supplicant worthy of the boon and if she still included a curse.

If she is a Bondsmith spren, then like Stormfather it must've been a known fact at the time, after all she's quite famous. What, with her wish granting and what-not. Someone has to have also come to her, hoping to join not just the Radiants but the Order which seems to be the most respected among them.

[Aon Tia she/her]

May be you need to find her and then demand that she bond with you by swearing the first ideal 

mot will help though if you already know the second ideal

but then it worked for dalinar because stormfather had already chosen him as a potential candidate for bonding

 

[Honorless he/him]

Honestly, I would if I could.

mot?

Yeah, hence the visions. But that still leaves us with no clues as to how Bondsmiths are normally chosen. Stormfather might go around, ready to accept an oath from a worthy would-be Radiant but what would Nightwatcher and Sibling do? 

[Aon Tia she/her]

Nightwatcher might make it known where she is based and may grant boons and curses hoping to someday come across someone who can bond her? 

I think it will be very awesome if sibling is bonded by Navani during her attempts to revive urithiru

she is artifabrian and he helps in the functioning of the biggest Fabrial. Also I believe that he probably granted special ability to his bondsmith which enabled them to create new and awesome fabrials by bonding spren to the fabrials like oathgates, regrowth, fabrial lift, soulcasters etc

[Honorless he/him]

Now I'm having a VERY bad premonition of someone restoring the Sibling and ending up freeing Ba-Ado-Mishram

[Aon Tia she/her]

Where is the link between sibling and BAM? 

I did not get it?

[Dalfiatach]

15 hours ago, Honorless said:

Invigorators?

I think LopentheHerdazian meant the Envisagers - the Radiant-worshipping cult Teft's family belonged to.

It would make sense if one of them had attempted to gain Radiancy from the Nightwatcher. We may never find out yay or nay though.

Navani wakening and bonding the Sibling makes sense, seeing as Urithiru seems to be a gigantic fabrial

[Honorless he/him]

10 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Where is the link between sibling and BAM? 

I did not get it?

During the False Desolation, Ba-Ado-Mishram somehow bonded to the Parshendi and granted them access to Voidlight. Melishi, the only Bondsmith of that time stopped them somehow, with unintended consequences, like turning them into Parshmen and hurting the Sibling (though it is noted it was already "changing" from one of the gems retrieved from the gem library in Urithiru). It is suspected that he used the Sibling in some manner to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram 

[Honorless he/him]

3 minutes ago, Dalfiatach said:

I think LopentheHerdazian meant the Envisagers - the Radiant-worshipping cult Teft's family belonged to.

It would make sense if one of them had attempted to gain Radiancy from the Nightwatcher. We may never find out yay or nay though.

Navani wakening and bonding the Sibling makes sense, seeing as Urithiru seems to be a gigantic fabrial

Wow, too many secret societies on Roshar! Would the Sons of Honor or the Ghostbloods not attempt anything similar as well? Wouldn't the Skybreakers be watching out for this?

Nooo! I want Adolin & Navani to be relatively mundane. Make Jasnah do it, I'm sure she can do it. If anyone could handle double Bonds and double Ideals, it would be her

[Dalfiatach]

4 minutes ago, Honorless said:

During the False Desolation, Ba-Ado-Mishram somehow bonded to the Parshendi and granted them access to Voidlight. Melishi, the only Bondsmith of that time stopped them somehow, with unintended consequences, like turning them into Parshmen and hurting the Sibling (though it is noted it was already "changing" from one of the gems retrieved from the gem library in Urithiru). It is suspected that he used the Sibling in some manner to imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram 

Just some wild speculation here but...what if that gemstone column in Urithiru is missing a gem - a perfect gem.

Could account for pain caused to the Sibling causing it to hibernate, the imprisonment of BAM, and the non-functioning of Urithiru.

Probably way too easy though 

[Aon Tia she/her]

Honors drop

[Honorless he/him]

What?

[Aon Tia she/her]

10 minutes ago, Honorless said:

What?

See below

Quote

Just some wild speculation here but...what if that gemstone column in Urithiru is missing a gem - a perfect gem.

@Dalfiatach honors drop? 

A wild speculation to your wild speculation 

Edited October 6, 2019 by The traveller

[Honorless he/him]

Something like that could work, perfect gemstones can entrap spren and unmade... 

[Samrat he/him]

On 10/6/2019 at 11:36 AM, Honorless said:

Now I'm having a VERY bad premonition of someone restoring the Sibling and ending up freeing Ba-Ado-Mishram

Meleshi was a Bondsmith bonded to the Sibling, during the recreance.

Highly probable that Sibling met the same fate as did the other sprens of the rest eight KR orders...

The point is, Stormfather wasn't actively involved in trapping Nergaoul aka Thrill, I mean, he is not standing as a warden to the Unmade. He is doing his usual Highstorm stuff, granted blessings to Lopen on becoming a KR and chilling out with Dalinar....

So, while trapping Ba-Ado-Mishram, Meleshi broke an oath, thus pushing Sibling to "Slumbering". It can be reversed though, I strongly believe from the narrative that it will be. We see Maya becoming more and more conscious while staying with Adolin, who has attributes of an Edgedancer.

So, about the nightwatcher, there is one problem. Cultivation lives. When Honor lived, the Stormfather under him did not understand much the ways of humans. He did not feel for the heralds when they broke their oaths, just knew they broke their oath (which is bad btw) and condemned them. He was more like the shard Honor, obsessed with oaths. I doubt when Honor lived how he bonded with humans, because Odium does say in Oathbringer chapter Passion that Dalinar is first to bond Stormfather in his current state. SF waited, and started sending those visions near the start of the true Desolation as said by Honor.

So, nightwatcher too exibits these things, she does not understand Dalinar asking for forgiveness and is obsessed with the boon and curse game. Bonding with her with depends also on Cultivation's permission, since she is so much like her (also her splinter), calculating and cold. I don't think she (Cultivation) will risk, even if she can, allowing NW to bond with a potential Bondsmith, if it doesn't serve her.

Recreance is still a big thing to the spren community.

[Frustration he/him]

On 10/17/2020 at 0:43 AM, Samrat said:

Meleshi was a Bondsmith bonded to the Sibling, during the recreance.

Highly probable that Sibling met the same fate as did the other sprens of the rest eight KR orders...

The point is, Stormfather wasn't actively involved in trapping Nergaoul aka Thrill, I mean, he is not standing as a warden to the Unmade. He is doing his usual Highstorm stuff, granted blessings to Lopen on becoming a KR and chilling out with Dalinar....

So, while trapping Ba-Ado-Mishram, Meleshi broke an oath, thus pushing Sibling to "Slumbering". It can be reversed though, I strongly believe from the narrative that it will be. We see Maya becoming more and more conscious while staying with Adolin, who has attributes of an Edgedancer.

So, about the nightwatcher, there is one problem. Cultivation lives. When Honor lived, the Stormfather under him did not understand much the ways of humans. He did not feel for the heralds when they broke their oaths, just knew they broke their oath (which is bad btw) and condemned them. He was more like the shard Honor, obsessed with oaths. I doubt when Honor lived how he bonded with humans, because Odium does say in Oathbringer chapter Passion that Dalinar is first to bond Stormfather in his current state. SF waited, and started sending those visions near the start of the true Desolation as said by Honor.

So, nightwatcher too exibits these things, she does not understand Dalinar asking for forgiveness and is obsessed with the boon and curse game. Bonding with her with depends also on Cultivation's permission, since she is so much like her (also her splinter), calculating and cold. I don't think she (Cultivation) will risk, even if she can, allowing NW to bond with a potential Bondsmith, if it doesn't serve her.

Recreance is still a big thing to the spren community.

It was the storm father.

[Lexicon76]

On 10/5/2019 at 5:12 AM, Honorless said:

Hello, first post, be gentle with me

We don't really know that the Nightwatcher is a Bondsmith spren. It's a good theory, seems widely accepted and quite probable. But so far as I know, no in-book quote or WoB confirms her as such. I think it's likely that she probably is one of the three Bondsmith spren, as a counterpart to the Stormfather.

She already has a magic system (-ish?) associated with her, the Boon and Curse: granting a wish but with a curse attached alongside it. Couldn't someone also ask her for the boon of being granted Radiancy (is that the word?). Has anyone in Roshar's history? Could she grant other spren bonds, lower spren or spren of the other Orders? And assuming she is a Radiant spren, could someone ask to bond with her? Could it be how she herself is supposed to be bonded?

Could the next Bondsmith have to trek to the Valley and ask for the boon of bonding her? What could be the Curse to accompany such a Boon? Would they need to speak the Ideals or would the Curse, sort of, supplant the words?

In Oathbringer we see how close the Nightwatcher and Cultivation are spoilers. It might stand to reason that Cultivation would pick who the Nightwatcher bonds. She does have a much more keen insight on the events of the future than anyone else. I would also assume we have already seen this character and their character arc is already leading them to go to the valley. Someone who has adventure in there heart has traveled the world and understands the cultures and can bring people together but also someone who appreciates caring of plants and animals and would have a reason to visit the Nightwatcher. Rysn... perhaps. But as a wise Mokian once said "Don't make assumptions idiot."

[Samrat he/him]

14 hours ago, Frustration said:

It was the storm father.

I did not understand you, friend. 

Can you please be specific with ur statement?

[Frustration he/him]

21 minutes ago, Samrat said:

I did not understand you, friend. 

Can you please be specific with ur statement?

The Bondsmith during the false desolation was bonded to the Stormfather, not the sibling.